180 gallon build: Modular control system, 3D printed equipment, open-source
- Thread starter jrhupp
- Start date
Sorry guys. Missed the posts originally. Thanks to both of you for the kind words.
A few updates:
First, for the reactor bodies I went to change out the tubing connecting them to the system and cracked one of them somewhere internally which lead to a couple of pin hole leaks. I was going from clear vinyl to black and got a little over excited when putting one of the tubes back on. So I had to print them again and rebuild the reactors. This time, I did an ABS slurry wash on the inside and vapor polished the parts. It should add some strength and seal up any potential pin hole leaks.
Here are the new vapor polished parts built up and installed:
And here are a couple pics along the way that show some of the internal stuff. I didn't think to take a pic of this when building them the first time. You can get some idea of the internal flow path from these.
A little while ago I put together some glass tops for the tank. These are only partial coverage, as there are cut outs to allow me to feed and to allow for all the overhead plumbing to come into the tank. They are 1/4" glass recycled from an old 135 gallon terrarium.
I have also been working on the web interface for the main controller. Its nothing too exciting; my web development skills are desperately lacking, but I'm getting there. I have a terminal page that lets me post information to the serial bus, serves up the responses, and lets me manually update the system clocks:
This is my interface for the power module. It handles address setting for the module and then switches for each channel. Labels are free form text. (take any settings shown with a grain of salt; just filler for development) All these settings get stored in a settings file that is stored on the Yun's SD card and is accessible from the web interface and the Yun's micro-controller, and where appropriate they get posted directly to the serial bus.
Similarly this is where I am at with the interface for controlling the surge system.
I have a first pass at the landing page too. But its not much to see without some real data. Lots of plots that pretty much look like green boxes without some data to plot in them. So I will wait to post it.
For on going projects, I am still working (procrastinating) on my ATO system. I have all the parts built and a first pass at the control sketch. I am just waiting for a good bit of down time between work trips to get it installed and tested. Likely over the x-mas holiday.
For up coming projects, I will be working on a printed skimmer (or at least a mostly printed skimmer) starting soon. I have a pump and some large diameter extruded acrylic tubing on order that should arrive next week. Once in hand I will start modeling up the parts. Wish me luck!
BigDave
Premium Member
It's looking pretty good. My website design is always more about usefulness than looks.
I got the go-ahead to get a 3d printer for Christmas. Now I'm just researching which one. I'm probably going to end up with one of the Prusa i3 clones. I'm leaning toward one of the Geeetech aluminum ones.
I got the go-ahead to get a 3d printer for Christmas. Now I'm just researching which one. I'm probably going to end up with one of the Prusa i3 clones. I'm leaning toward one of the Geeetech aluminum ones.
I've got a few questions for you about 3D printers. I'm down to the short strokes on a decision and want to do the build over Christmas.
You mentioned that you did mods along the way to get your printer to where you wanted it. I'm curious to know what mods you made and why.
You and a number of other people prefer an enclosed printer to even out the cooling on print jobs. I see that all the electronics are outside the enclosed area. I take it this is a must?
Is there anything you would do differently with the printer now that you have used it for a while? Would you choose a different printer?
Is the print bed large enough for all the projects you have in mind, or would a larger bed be useful?
Thanks.
You mentioned that you did mods along the way to get your printer to where you wanted it. I'm curious to know what mods you made and why.
You and a number of other people prefer an enclosed printer to even out the cooling on print jobs. I see that all the electronics are outside the enclosed area. I take it this is a must?
Is there anything you would do differently with the printer now that you have used it for a while? Would you choose a different printer?
Is the print bed large enough for all the projects you have in mind, or would a larger bed be useful?
Thanks.
BigDave
Premium Member
The carbon fiber filament really isn't any stronger. We played with it at work some and ended up just going back to plain ABS.
The Nylon stuff looks nice, but we haven't gotten any yet. None of us have all-metal hot ends and can't get up to the temp necessary yet. One of the guys is finishing up a new build that will be able to support it.
The Nylon stuff looks nice, but we haven't gotten any yet. None of us have all-metal hot ends and can't get up to the temp necessary yet. One of the guys is finishing up a new build that will be able to support it.
That's interesting. So it would be just as prone to cracking as a plain ABS? It certainly increases stiffness. I watched a video from a guy printing quadcopter bodies and there was no doubt the carbon fiber abs was stiffer.
So an all metal hot end is a must for some materials?
Edit: So, what do you guys make at work with these printers?
1- What: Enclosed the printer. That included not only the enclosure but installing a fan on each of the X, Y and E steppers.
1- Why: The enclosure keeps the print warmer, which reduces stress induced as the print cools during printing (generally not uniformly on an open printer). Less stress means no layer separation, wrapped prints or issues with prints peeling up from the bed during printing. The fans were included when I enclosed it to help dissipate heat from the steppers and keep temperature uniform in the enclosure.
2- What: Automatic bed height sensing and auto bed level compensation.
2- Why: The default method is to use a screw to set the Z 0 adjustment. I found this to be terribly unstable and my biggest hang up when trying to get prints going. The auto bed level compensation is done by the printer; it fits a plane to the bed surface based on probing its location relative to the extruder at multiple points and then applies a realtime correction to the Z position while printing. It was cool in theory but lead me to #3 and since #3 I don't need to use the bed level compensation.
3- What: An aluminium Y carriage.
3- Why: The printer came with a plywood Y carriage. This turned out to be pretty darn sensitive to humidity and was not always a perfect plane (it warped). A 0.25" thick sheet of aluminum fixed those problems.
4- What: Put a relay on the hot bed.
4- Why: The stock board appears to be current limited on the hot bed supply. The relay is a handy way of bypassing that current limit, which results in a hot bed that heats up to temp much quicker.
There were lots of small changes related to the above items. But those are the main highlights.
I don't now that the electronics must be on the outside. I put them there originally thinking the heat would be too much on long prints. But I have no data one way or the other wether it is really needed. And in hind sight I should have put them behind the power supply in the lower part of my enclosure below the printer rather than on top of it.
Maybe. I bought mine a few years ago and there were a lot fewer options in my price range at that time. Given it to do over I think I would look for a kit built off a metal frame. The plywood has done well but I think there is room for improvement that would come from a more rigid structure.
Maybe. Too date it has not been an issue, though I have had some prints that cover a good portion of it. However, currently I am working on a skimmer based on 6" extruded tubing. Some of the parts with the integrated plumbing connections are a tight fit on the 8x8 bed. And if I had a 10x10 bed I would likey have opted for an 8" extruded body to the skimmer over the 6".
I haven't seen the stuff and as such have not considered it or tried it. But I would be inclined to think along the lines of what BigDave has observed; that it doesn't really make a difference.
I would suspect that if the fiber was large enough to add any strength that it would be an issues during extrusion through the small diameter nozzles we use at relatively low pressure. And if the fiber is very small then I wouldn't imagine its particularly different from just using black ABS colored with carbon.
Yes, for most anything beyond PLA.
I can't provide much detail, but we use ours at work for prototyping parts and assembly or test jigs.
Wow, thanks for the detailed response. Your answers confirm my own leanings on what would make for a solid printer.
From what I have read, metal construction would resolve a lot of issues less expensive printers have.
I was looking at the Tevo Tarantula because it is inexpensive and the company seems to provide good support and is willing to upgrade parts to make it a better printer. The main criticism seems to be around construction and rigidity. It needs additional parts and to be bolted to a solid surface to get consistent performance.
It does offer a larger bed option but that adds to the cost.
It turns out that Tevo offers an upgraded option in the Black Widow that resolves these issues... at twice the price.
Sigh. I was hoping to talk myself out of the more expensive option, but it is all metal construction (including the Y frame) and user feedback is that it is extremely ridgid, needing no mods. It has a very large bed at 14.5" x 10" x 12". The hot end is all metal with a direct drive feed and the control hardware and psu are moved to a separate box with very good cable management. The limit sensors are also upgraded to inductive (sensors can be an issue on the Tarantula).
All in all, if I add up the time and cost in extra materials to upgrade, I'm probably better off spending the extra up front. Plus.. ginormous print bed... Being a guy, bigger is always better.
Your comment on the bed auto level is interesting. I had the impression is was a necessity.
From what I have read, metal construction would resolve a lot of issues less expensive printers have.
I was looking at the Tevo Tarantula because it is inexpensive and the company seems to provide good support and is willing to upgrade parts to make it a better printer. The main criticism seems to be around construction and rigidity. It needs additional parts and to be bolted to a solid surface to get consistent performance.
It does offer a larger bed option but that adds to the cost.
It turns out that Tevo offers an upgraded option in the Black Widow that resolves these issues... at twice the price.
Sigh. I was hoping to talk myself out of the more expensive option, but it is all metal construction (including the Y frame) and user feedback is that it is extremely ridgid, needing no mods. It has a very large bed at 14.5" x 10" x 12". The hot end is all metal with a direct drive feed and the control hardware and psu are moved to a separate box with very good cable management. The limit sensors are also upgraded to inductive (sensors can be an issue on the Tarantula).
All in all, if I add up the time and cost in extra materials to upgrade, I'm probably better off spending the extra up front. Plus.. ginormous print bed... Being a guy, bigger is always better.
Your comment on the bed auto level is interesting. I had the impression is was a necessity.
thegasman2000
New member
Whats you opinion on something like this?
http://www.ebuyer.com/708312-xyz-pr...ii1V8vigSSFXddPTB9BTFd00q00MwIdWlahoC6h7w_wcB
I know the bed is small but otherwise seems a decent starter printer. Its PLA only is that an issue?
http://www.ebuyer.com/708312-xyz-pr...ii1V8vigSSFXddPTB9BTFd00q00MwIdWlahoC6h7w_wcB
I know the bed is small but otherwise seems a decent starter printer. Its PLA only is that an issue?
From what I understand, if you are printing things to go in salt water, you need to be able to at least print in ABS.
thegasman2000
New member
Hmm there is a thread here explaining how to mod the printer to print abs... http://www.soliforum.com/topic/14158/xyz-da-vinci-jr-heated-bed/
Not for me. With the metal y carriage things stay in adjustment quite well and I get good results with just the single probe of the bed height during the homing sequence.
To the question of using PLA, as others pointed out this is not an appropriate choice. Among several reasons that make it a poor choice, first and foremost is that it is plant based and biodegradable.
ABS is where to start for printing aquarium gear. To do that you need a suitable hot end and a heated bed.
While this printer is inexpensive, I have to think once you add in the extra bits to fit it for the hot bed, stand alone electronics to control it and maybe a new hot end, it will cost more then a more cable kit printer. Plus, for me I think a 5.9^3 build volume would be too limiting to be useful.
If you look back a few pages in this thread there is a link to a low cost Chinese made kit built off the i3 design. I think several folks here have bought it and I have a coworker that picked one up. I can't speak for the folks here. But my coworker seems quite happy with it.
Gorgok
New member
Mine is great now. But i did build a plywood enclosure for it to trap the heat in, remove the aluminum plate and replace it with glass, insulate the bottom of the heating pcb with fiberglass matting, and then adjust the thing to be square in all directions and bolt it rigid to the enclosure top and bottom.
Heating the plate still takes a while, but after that its fine.
I don't have any first hand experience with any other printer though, so maybe my standards are set lower than others may have.
