180 O' Fun
- Thread starter Mr T-reefer
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Mr T-reefer
New member
Sweet. I didn't really have any followers on the club site I used to be on.
Sorry Nitro, I waited till today to update instead so I could include what I did today. Although the following with be about the main structure, almost half of it has to do with the composition of the cement mixes I used for everything (walls, column etc), all of this will be at the end. By "main structure" I mean the large structure on the right side in the yellow sketch I posted a little while ago.
Overall, when it comes to the shape I wanted it in a range from 1-10 (10 being as imagined) I would say about 7; I had to make some compromises, so that reduced the quality a bit. For the apperance of the walls of this structure, except for the top piece and the final piece which scored about 5, I think they are at about an 8-9 in my opinion for what I wanted. The ones with two different gravels (3mm and 10mm) turned out the best, read on to find out more.
These are the sketches I used to aid in the rock construction while I was making them. The cross hatched parts represent holes.
I saw somewhere online (don't remember the place) where a guy made a large agrocrete structure using chicken wire as a frame supported by miscellaneous things (flower pots, paint buckets etc) and plastic sheeting over the wire to keep it seperate from the concrete. Then all he had to do was pour the concrete mixture over the plastic covered wire frame that he bent into the shape that he wanted the structure to look like and he was done, leaving certain areas blank where he wanted caves. So I gave that technique a try.
Here I shaped the wire how I wanted (well at least pretty much) and then supported it with what I could find, this was a bit more difficult than I thought it would be, trying to find supports at the exact height needed was a pain, and sparse.
After putting on the top layer, I realized that this was not going to work, the chicken wire was just not supported enough at the the edges and corners to support a layer of concrete. It took a little while before I could find something suitable as a substitute. I was going to make the frame out of boards of wood that would then be covered with some plastic, but then I found something I could use that not require any construction.
Rubbermaid Container used to shape the main structure
To make this structure, I had to do it in layers like the one you see in the picture above (BEWARE, LOTS OF TRIAL AND ERROR, DO PLENTY OF TESTING BEFORE HAND, I didn't.....:thumbdown) As you might have seen a little bit from the column project, wet cement works the best as a first layer. So step one, add a wet layer (not so wet that it will flow like water though, more like a sludgy wet mud).
Step two. With a dryer mix (could be the second batch made up after step one is done) sprinkle chunks onto the layer done in step one at an elevated level, I did it at about a foot to a foot and a half above the layer. You can sprinkle like you would a baked good, or let it squish between your fingers, both of these methods will yield different results with different concrete mixes and different amount of water (wet vs dryer mix, so agian, test by trial and error). Then lightly pat it down to get better contact, if you do it too hard, then the sprinkle step will have been a waste of time. This step is tricky as if it is too wet, it will plop onto layer one and become pancake-like and boring. If it is too dry, the pieces won't adhere to each other and layer one, and so they fall off or are very easly bumped/rubbed off.
In this pic, it is really a mix of step two and three, my hands were covered in cement and so couldn't take a picture after step two was done, but it's okay as step three is easy. The largest mounds you see in the next picture, and you'll see some in later pictures, is step three. It is done in the same way by sprinkling, but just keep you hand over the same spot until your satisfied. You can create a chunk with your hands for the larger mounds, but it won't have as many crevices as if you did it by the sprinkle method.
Here is another landscape view, this is a different section from that of above, this one involves a different mix (sand) that I have not yet to explained.
Sorry Nitro, I waited till today to update instead so I could include what I did today. Although the following with be about the main structure, almost half of it has to do with the composition of the cement mixes I used for everything (walls, column etc), all of this will be at the end. By "main structure" I mean the large structure on the right side in the yellow sketch I posted a little while ago.
Overall, when it comes to the shape I wanted it in a range from 1-10 (10 being as imagined) I would say about 7; I had to make some compromises, so that reduced the quality a bit. For the apperance of the walls of this structure, except for the top piece and the final piece which scored about 5, I think they are at about an 8-9 in my opinion for what I wanted. The ones with two different gravels (3mm and 10mm) turned out the best, read on to find out more.
These are the sketches I used to aid in the rock construction while I was making them. The cross hatched parts represent holes.
I saw somewhere online (don't remember the place) where a guy made a large agrocrete structure using chicken wire as a frame supported by miscellaneous things (flower pots, paint buckets etc) and plastic sheeting over the wire to keep it seperate from the concrete. Then all he had to do was pour the concrete mixture over the plastic covered wire frame that he bent into the shape that he wanted the structure to look like and he was done, leaving certain areas blank where he wanted caves. So I gave that technique a try.
Here I shaped the wire how I wanted (well at least pretty much) and then supported it with what I could find, this was a bit more difficult than I thought it would be, trying to find supports at the exact height needed was a pain, and sparse.
After putting on the top layer, I realized that this was not going to work, the chicken wire was just not supported enough at the the edges and corners to support a layer of concrete. It took a little while before I could find something suitable as a substitute. I was going to make the frame out of boards of wood that would then be covered with some plastic, but then I found something I could use that not require any construction.
Rubbermaid Container used to shape the main structure
To make this structure, I had to do it in layers like the one you see in the picture above (BEWARE, LOTS OF TRIAL AND ERROR, DO PLENTY OF TESTING BEFORE HAND, I didn't.....:thumbdown) As you might have seen a little bit from the column project, wet cement works the best as a first layer. So step one, add a wet layer (not so wet that it will flow like water though, more like a sludgy wet mud).
Step two. With a dryer mix (could be the second batch made up after step one is done) sprinkle chunks onto the layer done in step one at an elevated level, I did it at about a foot to a foot and a half above the layer. You can sprinkle like you would a baked good, or let it squish between your fingers, both of these methods will yield different results with different concrete mixes and different amount of water (wet vs dryer mix, so agian, test by trial and error). Then lightly pat it down to get better contact, if you do it too hard, then the sprinkle step will have been a waste of time. This step is tricky as if it is too wet, it will plop onto layer one and become pancake-like and boring. If it is too dry, the pieces won't adhere to each other and layer one, and so they fall off or are very easly bumped/rubbed off.
In this pic, it is really a mix of step two and three, my hands were covered in cement and so couldn't take a picture after step two was done, but it's okay as step three is easy. The largest mounds you see in the next picture, and you'll see some in later pictures, is step three. It is done in the same way by sprinkling, but just keep you hand over the same spot until your satisfied. You can create a chunk with your hands for the larger mounds, but it won't have as many crevices as if you did it by the sprinkle method.
Here is another landscape view, this is a different section from that of above, this one involves a different mix (sand) that I have not yet to explained.
Mr T-reefer
New member
Here are some pictures of the main structure mostly completed:
Front of structure
Cave in the front
Overall structure
Top facing forward
Right side of structure
In this picture, the left half of the pic is a corner between two sides
Inside part of the main structure
Front of structure
Cave in the front
Overall structure
Top facing forward
Right side of structure
In this picture, the left half of the pic is a corner between two sides
Inside part of the main structure
Mr T-reefer
New member
Some of the caves in the walls of the main structure
I still plan to add support columns inside along with closing up the holes that you can see to make them into individual caves rather than entances to one large cave.
Caves viewed from the outside
There are other ways to make caves and tunnels though. You can use PVC pipe or plastic containers such as these, but just so long as they don't have to support too much weight, PVC is best for more weight-to an extent.
This one allows for a bigger cavern than the next one
The cave in this random rock I made involves the same type of container as the white one above, but the one I used was not as big in size.
Okay, go take a break, seriously, the next stuff is the composition, and your going to need you eyes a little more for this.....
I still plan to add support columns inside along with closing up the holes that you can see to make them into individual caves rather than entances to one large cave.
Caves viewed from the outside
There are other ways to make caves and tunnels though. You can use PVC pipe or plastic containers such as these, but just so long as they don't have to support too much weight, PVC is best for more weight-to an extent.
This one allows for a bigger cavern than the next one
The cave in this random rock I made involves the same type of container as the white one above, but the one I used was not as big in size.
Okay, go take a break, seriously, the next stuff is the composition, and your going to need you eyes a little more for this.....
Mr T-reefer
New member
I first started with a 1:1 agronite sand to Portland cement mix. Strength was more of a concern than pourosity, so I didn't use rock salt or other means to make the rock more pourous.
I made the top of the main structure too wet, (it was also the very first agrocrete thing I did too (even before the overflow walls) and so it didn't come out the greatest since I didn't know what I was doing, reading about it only helps so much.
1:1 Closeup view
1:1 cement agronite sand cross section. You can see a little bit more than half way up the middle the small cave that was formed from the "sprinkling" method.
Here is another closeup to show that it is 1:1 as proof
The other two mixes were 1:1 portland cement to play sand and 1:1:1 Portland cement, small (3mm) aquarium gravel, regualr size (10mm) aquarium gravel. Although I did the aquarium gravel to cement mix after I ran out of agronite sand and before the play sand mix, I'll show the 1:1 Portland cement to play sand first.
Here is a picture of agronite sand versus play sand, the play sand is the darker color. They dried to the color you see in the picture, but with the sand mix being a paste and the agronite sand being a little too wet, they ended up having prety much the same texture.
This is the one I did today using 1:1 Portland cement to play sand. I ran out of everything, so I grabbed a small bag of Portland cement and play sand from Lowe's to finish the last bits (mainly just this side of the main structure). It is not as great for making the details as you can see, but this mix could work nicely for the initial layer though (step one). This side won't be seen very easily anyways, so I'm fine with it not turning out the greatest.
The next set of pictures is the 1:1:1 Portland cement, small (3mm) aquarium gravel, regualr size (10mm) aquarium gravel mix (or different gravel/ multi-gravel mix). Here is some various pictures of it:
For the overflow walls, most of the column, but for only the front on this structure, I used only the 3mm gravel with some agronite sand and cement in a 2:1:2 ratio respectively. I don't know how well the text will show up, so the left side is the 2:1:2 3mm gravel, agronite sand, cement mix and the right side is the 1:1:1 3mm gravel, 10mm gravel, cement mix. The right side was just a hint wetter than its left counterpart, so there is some distortion when it comes to comparing, but overall the different gravel mix (the one with the 3mm and 10mm gravel) had a better bumpy look to it due to the 10mm gravel being present. Here is the corner where the two different mix types meet:
Hardened piece of cement and multi gravel piece (1:1:1 cement, 3mm, 10mm). Ignore the agronite sand you see, of the large batch I made, there was only about a handful of agronite sand in it, and this piece happenend to get a decent amount in it.
I made the top of the main structure too wet, (it was also the very first agrocrete thing I did too (even before the overflow walls) and so it didn't come out the greatest since I didn't know what I was doing, reading about it only helps so much.
1:1 Closeup view
1:1 cement agronite sand cross section. You can see a little bit more than half way up the middle the small cave that was formed from the "sprinkling" method.
Here is another closeup to show that it is 1:1 as proof
The other two mixes were 1:1 portland cement to play sand and 1:1:1 Portland cement, small (3mm) aquarium gravel, regualr size (10mm) aquarium gravel. Although I did the aquarium gravel to cement mix after I ran out of agronite sand and before the play sand mix, I'll show the 1:1 Portland cement to play sand first.
Here is a picture of agronite sand versus play sand, the play sand is the darker color. They dried to the color you see in the picture, but with the sand mix being a paste and the agronite sand being a little too wet, they ended up having prety much the same texture.
This is the one I did today using 1:1 Portland cement to play sand. I ran out of everything, so I grabbed a small bag of Portland cement and play sand from Lowe's to finish the last bits (mainly just this side of the main structure). It is not as great for making the details as you can see, but this mix could work nicely for the initial layer though (step one). This side won't be seen very easily anyways, so I'm fine with it not turning out the greatest.
The next set of pictures is the 1:1:1 Portland cement, small (3mm) aquarium gravel, regualr size (10mm) aquarium gravel mix (or different gravel/ multi-gravel mix). Here is some various pictures of it:
For the overflow walls, most of the column, but for only the front on this structure, I used only the 3mm gravel with some agronite sand and cement in a 2:1:2 ratio respectively. I don't know how well the text will show up, so the left side is the 2:1:2 3mm gravel, agronite sand, cement mix and the right side is the 1:1:1 3mm gravel, 10mm gravel, cement mix. The right side was just a hint wetter than its left counterpart, so there is some distortion when it comes to comparing, but overall the different gravel mix (the one with the 3mm and 10mm gravel) had a better bumpy look to it due to the 10mm gravel being present. Here is the corner where the two different mix types meet:
Hardened piece of cement and multi gravel piece (1:1:1 cement, 3mm, 10mm). Ignore the agronite sand you see, of the large batch I made, there was only about a handful of agronite sand in it, and this piece happenend to get a decent amount in it.
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Mr T-reefer
New member
Comparison of sand-only to multi-gravel mix
Three of the different mixes
The three clumps in the top left corner are comprised of the 1:1 play sand to Portland cement. The layer that takes up most of the bottom of the picture is the 2:1:2 3mm gravel, agronite sand, cement. And the layer that seems to be the lowest layer in the middle of the picture is the 1:1 agronite sand to cement mix. Sorry, I don't have the 1:1:1 3mm, 10mm, cement mix in this picture, but it looks pretty close to the 2:1:2 3mm gravel, agronite sand, cement though, but slightly more bumpy.
The right-hand section of the main structure ready to go.
All in all, I like the different/multi gravel mix (3mm, 10mm, cement) the best because it creates the most varied amount of bumpiness. I did do small pieces with the 1:1 cement to agronite sand that wasn't so wet, and although it may have a little more of a buffering capacity, it wasn't as nice looking as the different gravel combo.
So if you are thinking about this style of rock (as in agrocrete), and like the way I did it, I would recommend using a mix of agronite sand with at least two different sizes of aquarium gravel for the best results. This would provide looks and buffering capacity. You would need to test out the ratios first though to see which one you like the best and could even add rock salt to the batch to make it pourous, but that is of course up to you.
Three of the different mixes
The three clumps in the top left corner are comprised of the 1:1 play sand to Portland cement. The layer that takes up most of the bottom of the picture is the 2:1:2 3mm gravel, agronite sand, cement. And the layer that seems to be the lowest layer in the middle of the picture is the 1:1 agronite sand to cement mix. Sorry, I don't have the 1:1:1 3mm, 10mm, cement mix in this picture, but it looks pretty close to the 2:1:2 3mm gravel, agronite sand, cement though, but slightly more bumpy.
The right-hand section of the main structure ready to go.
All in all, I like the different/multi gravel mix (3mm, 10mm, cement) the best because it creates the most varied amount of bumpiness. I did do small pieces with the 1:1 cement to agronite sand that wasn't so wet, and although it may have a little more of a buffering capacity, it wasn't as nice looking as the different gravel combo.
So if you are thinking about this style of rock (as in agrocrete), and like the way I did it, I would recommend using a mix of agronite sand with at least two different sizes of aquarium gravel for the best results. This would provide looks and buffering capacity. You would need to test out the ratios first though to see which one you like the best and could even add rock salt to the batch to make it pourous, but that is of course up to you.
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Mr T-reefer
New member
Thanks. There won't be any updates till sometime next weekend. There is currently a storm, and I am not able to get enough done during the weekdays.
Mr T-reefer
New member
Okay, I'll answer there then; sorry for delay, I haven't been on the site for almost a week.
Mr T-reefer
New member
Here is an update of what I did today (caves).
As you can see from this picture, all of the holes lead into one big chamber, so to make it so that each lion (big holes) has its own cave, I have to close them up.
Rather than making something out of concrete I just used these, disk for size reference:
I wanted them to be supported at the far end (opposite of where they touch the wall), but when I saw that they would also be touching each other even after I cut the yellow one down some, I just attached them together to make one big unit. I used zip-ties for all of the attachments and eggcrate as support columns as you can see.
Custom structure put into its place
To make sure that the contraption I just made can't fall or slide around once it is in the tank, I have made "loops" with eggcrate fastened with concrete to the walls of the main structure. I will then use the loops and holes in the containers at select spots to hold them in place, again with zip-ties.
Maybe this will help clarify this part some:
Once I had that done (I did not attach the unit to the structure though, I'll do that when I add everything to the tank), I went on to the smaller holes.
I was going to use the plastic containers that you will see as a mould that would be covered with plastic so that all I would have to do is put the concrete on top of it and let it dry. Then once the concrete was dry enough to hold itself up, I could just slip the plastic container out and use it over and over again and then later on use a little more concrete to attach the new concrete caves to the main strucure wall.
But in the essence of time and seeing that it would be a little harder than I thought, but mainly for time reasons, I looked for more containers and attached them to the inside wall with some concrete. I also drilled a hole in the back of them for a little more circulation through the container. Most of them are just pill containers where the neck is slightly smaller than the body (remember the advantage of this type I mentioned earlier?). For the elevated ones, I just used some super glue to hold them up until I could get the concrete around them. I made a batch of concrete larger than I would need so that I could also fill in any crevices or simply support the corners a little better of the different slabs that I couldn't get to before. Now the main structure is more like an apartment building lol.
You can also see the two custom "loops" on the right hand side in this picture.
I'll see what I can accomplish tomorrow and see if there is enough for an update or not, I won't have much time to work tomorrow.
As you can see from this picture, all of the holes lead into one big chamber, so to make it so that each lion (big holes) has its own cave, I have to close them up.
Rather than making something out of concrete I just used these, disk for size reference:
I wanted them to be supported at the far end (opposite of where they touch the wall), but when I saw that they would also be touching each other even after I cut the yellow one down some, I just attached them together to make one big unit. I used zip-ties for all of the attachments and eggcrate as support columns as you can see.
Custom structure put into its place
To make sure that the contraption I just made can't fall or slide around once it is in the tank, I have made "loops" with eggcrate fastened with concrete to the walls of the main structure. I will then use the loops and holes in the containers at select spots to hold them in place, again with zip-ties.
Maybe this will help clarify this part some:
Once I had that done (I did not attach the unit to the structure though, I'll do that when I add everything to the tank), I went on to the smaller holes.
I was going to use the plastic containers that you will see as a mould that would be covered with plastic so that all I would have to do is put the concrete on top of it and let it dry. Then once the concrete was dry enough to hold itself up, I could just slip the plastic container out and use it over and over again and then later on use a little more concrete to attach the new concrete caves to the main strucure wall.
But in the essence of time and seeing that it would be a little harder than I thought, but mainly for time reasons, I looked for more containers and attached them to the inside wall with some concrete. I also drilled a hole in the back of them for a little more circulation through the container. Most of them are just pill containers where the neck is slightly smaller than the body (remember the advantage of this type I mentioned earlier?). For the elevated ones, I just used some super glue to hold them up until I could get the concrete around them. I made a batch of concrete larger than I would need so that I could also fill in any crevices or simply support the corners a little better of the different slabs that I couldn't get to before. Now the main structure is more like an apartment building lol.
You can also see the two custom "loops" on the right hand side in this picture.
I'll see what I can accomplish tomorrow and see if there is enough for an update or not, I won't have much time to work tomorrow.
Mr T-reefer
New member
First, my caves that I posted above failed (see below). The concrete didn't adhere, so I'll have to see if the Aquamend two part epoxy will work instead.
But maybe using containers a moulds is a good way to create mini-arches like this one?
If you remember my rock layout design I posted (yellow paper), you may have noticed that I have been going on and on about the structure on the right side all this time, but what about the left one?
I started to work on it a long time ago, and got most of it done but then when the weather got better, I focused all of my free time on the concrete structures. When I first started the rock stage of my tank, I tried to see how much of the rock I could make with the 100 or so pounds of reef rock I already had and then make what ever was left from the concrete blend.
After a day or two of trying to find the best fit with the rocks to make the structure I wanted, I then drilled holes at key spots and then used zip-ties to hold the rocks together as one unit. But when I started to work on it again weeks later, some parts were not holding together very well. So I then cut off the zip-ties that were obviously not doing their job anymore, and then used concrete to fill in gaps here and there between the seperate rocks to act like support columns as you can see here:
When I was done, this came out as the product. It is broken up into two parts, a top half and bottom half, so that it can fit into the opening on the top of the tank. This is the main structure that goes to the left of the arch in the sketch. You can see that I was able to make a decent sized cave in the top half.
Once the concrete was dry, I was then able to work on the arch. I was originally going to use 1.5" PVC pipe and then either cover it with cement or strap several small reef rocks to it with zip-ties to form the arch, but I have this rock that would work much better and so I spent some time trying to figure out how to use it with out it going above the maximum height (not touching the top of the tank which is 24"). I used some concrete to hide some of the white color of the pipe and then added some where I thought the pipe may show up once everything was in place.
Here is the back of the arch:
Top view:
View from the front:
Next I came up with how to get it to stay. I had always planned on using PVC as the main part of the arch along with using fittings to hold it in place, but I just needed to figure out how to use them. In the end, one side has the pipe cut into a "V" shape as seen in earlier pictures of which will rest on the left main structure (I will use zip-ties between the left main structure and the arch to hold it in place once I add everything to the tank), and the other end will slip into a 90 degree fitting resting on its side on the right main structure which was the one made from concrete. You may also be able to see that this has ended up creating a cave as well. Here is the 90 degree fitting the arch will slip into once it is installed in the tank:
Here is everything except the right half of the right side main structure put in place (paint bucket for size reference). I'll also probably add a rock where the arch connects to the left main stucture so that that large gap above it will be filled in, thus making the arch a little more natural looking.
Here is the previous setup viewed from the top. As you can see, I was able to get that 45 degree angle from the right main structure to left main structure like I wanted (also seen in the yellow page sketch):
But maybe using containers a moulds is a good way to create mini-arches like this one?
If you remember my rock layout design I posted (yellow paper), you may have noticed that I have been going on and on about the structure on the right side all this time, but what about the left one?
I started to work on it a long time ago, and got most of it done but then when the weather got better, I focused all of my free time on the concrete structures. When I first started the rock stage of my tank, I tried to see how much of the rock I could make with the 100 or so pounds of reef rock I already had and then make what ever was left from the concrete blend.
After a day or two of trying to find the best fit with the rocks to make the structure I wanted, I then drilled holes at key spots and then used zip-ties to hold the rocks together as one unit. But when I started to work on it again weeks later, some parts were not holding together very well. So I then cut off the zip-ties that were obviously not doing their job anymore, and then used concrete to fill in gaps here and there between the seperate rocks to act like support columns as you can see here:
When I was done, this came out as the product. It is broken up into two parts, a top half and bottom half, so that it can fit into the opening on the top of the tank. This is the main structure that goes to the left of the arch in the sketch. You can see that I was able to make a decent sized cave in the top half.
Once the concrete was dry, I was then able to work on the arch. I was originally going to use 1.5" PVC pipe and then either cover it with cement or strap several small reef rocks to it with zip-ties to form the arch, but I have this rock that would work much better and so I spent some time trying to figure out how to use it with out it going above the maximum height (not touching the top of the tank which is 24"). I used some concrete to hide some of the white color of the pipe and then added some where I thought the pipe may show up once everything was in place.
Here is the back of the arch:
Top view:
View from the front:
Next I came up with how to get it to stay. I had always planned on using PVC as the main part of the arch along with using fittings to hold it in place, but I just needed to figure out how to use them. In the end, one side has the pipe cut into a "V" shape as seen in earlier pictures of which will rest on the left main structure (I will use zip-ties between the left main structure and the arch to hold it in place once I add everything to the tank), and the other end will slip into a 90 degree fitting resting on its side on the right main structure which was the one made from concrete. You may also be able to see that this has ended up creating a cave as well. Here is the 90 degree fitting the arch will slip into once it is installed in the tank:
Here is everything except the right half of the right side main structure put in place (paint bucket for size reference). I'll also probably add a rock where the arch connects to the left main stucture so that that large gap above it will be filled in, thus making the arch a little more natural looking.
Here is the previous setup viewed from the top. As you can see, I was able to get that 45 degree angle from the right main structure to left main structure like I wanted (also seen in the yellow page sketch):
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Mr T-reefer
New member
Well, now that I have completed all of the rockwork, now all I can do is wait for them to cure. I have some minor work to do under the tank still, but until the rock is ready to go, there won't be too many updates for a while.
Mr T-reefer
New member
The two volitans (1 red, 1 black), an arrow crab, a starfish (type undecided, but definitely a brittle later on) and maybe a black long spined urchin. I will add the pom pom xenia and orange mushrooms I already have and will most likely add a few more mushrooms later on to keep the rocks pretty 
I need to get the arrow crab soon so that it will be of decent size before I get the Volitans. The idea of the tank is to make it a bit more easier of a tank to care of compared to a reef tank since I find I have less and less time to work on it due to classes, plus who doesn't think full sized lionfish aren't cool?!
How did you get your lions to eat? or should I say do you feed them frozen food? If so, how did you wean them?
I need to get the arrow crab soon so that it will be of decent size before I get the Volitans. The idea of the tank is to make it a bit more easier of a tank to care of compared to a reef tank since I find I have less and less time to work on it due to classes, plus who doesn't think full sized lionfish aren't cool?!
How did you get your lions to eat? or should I say do you feed them frozen food? If so, how did you wean them?
I do NOT feed my lions live food. All of them eat frozen, freeze dried and even flakes. I highly suggest putting them in a hospital tank that doesn't have rock caves in it until you know they are eating. Since you are getting volitans, I am going to keep this just to them...dwarf types are a little different. When I am going to feed my new lions I crank the flow in the tank and put the food right into the flow so it moves with the current like a fish would...I start out with the food that they most likely won't like such as the flake food and put a little in to get the smell in the water. I watch to see if the lion perks up and if it does, then I add more to see if it starts to hunt. It may hunt, but never eat. Then I will add some freeze dried in. If the lion still has a belly on it, I won't add frozen until the belly has been gone for two days. I don't have a problem feeding frozen food, but you want them to hunt for everything.
Are you ordering your lions online or picking them out at a store? I could give you some tips if you are picking them out in person.
Some reefers on here may disagree with this point, but do not put an anenome in with your lions. I have seen bad things happen
Good luck with your arrow crab.
Are you ordering your lions online or picking them out at a store? I could give you some tips if you are picking them out in person.
Some reefers on here may disagree with this point, but do not put an anenome in with your lions. I have seen bad things happen
Good luck with your arrow crab.
Mr T-reefer
New member
Thankyou very much, very helpful. I was going to get them from a store that I have been going to for a while, but the guy that worked there who is more a friend than merchant doesn't really work there anymore and the other guy/owner isn't reliable enough to make me want to get it from him.
There is one other place I could try, but it looks like I'm most likely going to get it from online. The online place has always been reliable and has sent me good quality stuff, including a lion I had a few years ago. But I would still like to know what you know about picking out a healthy lion. I know some stuff, but not all of it. Plus I'm sure it may help out anyone else who comes across the info on this thread.
Yeah, I know not too stick an anemone in with them, thanks for the heads up by the way. I learned about their incompatability from Wet Web Media. Good thing too, because I had planned to put a large sebae in the tank-it would not have been fun to find a stung to death lion in my tank.
There is one other place I could try, but it looks like I'm most likely going to get it from online. The online place has always been reliable and has sent me good quality stuff, including a lion I had a few years ago. But I would still like to know what you know about picking out a healthy lion. I know some stuff, but not all of it. Plus I'm sure it may help out anyone else who comes across the info on this thread.
Yeah, I know not too stick an anemone in with them, thanks for the heads up by the way. I learned about their incompatability from Wet Web Media. Good thing too, because I had planned to put a large sebae in the tank-it would not have been fun to find a stung to death lion in my tank.
As far as picking out a healthy one. Well....if you can actually see the fish make sure it eats. Have them feed it at the store. Watch it eat. See how it hunts. It should follow it for awhile all puffed out and proud looking. At the last second it should hit the food hard and fast...if it misses it, that is okay. Does it have a big belly? That means it has been eating which is also a good sign. Rule of thumb is that lions don't get ich.. Lions can get little air bubbles or bits of sand on their fins though. Volitans kinda act like a dog.
The next few bits of advice are going to sound mean, but it will show you a few things. See if the lion will follow your finger...it should. Then flare your hand compleately out fast...does the fish react? If it is a healthy fish, it should.
Check all of their fins. Do you see any damage? If you don't know lions well, get a perfect looking one.
Grrr....I am running out of time...lol...
You probably know everything that I have said...As far as other fish...There are a lot of fish that you cannot put in with lions, but there are fish that you can. I should post those too, I guess. I will have to do that one later...
I hope some of this has helped.
The next few bits of advice are going to sound mean, but it will show you a few things. See if the lion will follow your finger...it should. Then flare your hand compleately out fast...does the fish react? If it is a healthy fish, it should.
Check all of their fins. Do you see any damage? If you don't know lions well, get a perfect looking one.
Grrr....I am running out of time...lol...
You probably know everything that I have said...As far as other fish...There are a lot of fish that you cannot put in with lions, but there are fish that you can. I should post those too, I guess.
I will have to do that one later... I hope some of this has helped.
Mr T-reefer
New member
What was said is just fine. The finger following with the flare was the only thing I didn't know. Fish-wise, the only one I thought about adding was a naso tang. I thought about a desjardini tang, but they can be aggressive (maybe not to a lion though...maybe). Either way, the two Volitans is good enough for a while in terms of fish. Thanks again for your input Lion Babe.
