2.5 gallon tank

Poorcollegereef,
Here comes a personal attack in your direction--how dare you raise the thread to the level of debate with perspective-taking, discourse, and respect for others. I don't appreciate *your* judgement about my right to visciously attacks others in this anonymous setting. And your "science"--please--you are clearly part of the blame reefers first crowd.
You're either with us or against us, man.
 
I like the look of pico and nano tanks when done properly and well cared for. Which was my reason for looking at this thread. Do I think keeping a clown in a 2.5 is correct.....no. But we've all made mistakes and learned from them. Either the hard way or actually listening to advice. It's all part of eventually keeping a beautiful and well maintained reef. I feel sorry for the guy who posted. All he was looking for were positive words and advice from experienced reefers.
How about constructive advice rather than 6 pages of this.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9254666#post9254666 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Poorcollegereef
True, always push the hobby and the knowledge of the world farther, but lets us do it in a non-reckless manner. Peace!

I FOUND IT!!!

I found this very fascinating, from The Skeptical Fishkeeper, Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine (December 2006) : Fish Growth vs. Tank Size. read on...

.....

Dr. Julius Tepper, a Long Island veterinarian who specializes in koi, says that in his clinical practice he's observed that koi housed in small ponds (which he defines as a stocking density of more than three adult koi per 1000 gallons of water) are often adnormally small, and they tend to have health problems as well. "I would agree that there is a definite correlation between corwding and fish stunting," he said. "Some factors to consider would be: a.) a naturally occurring growth hormonal influence, where it would be biologically beneficial to reduce growth rate in the face of potential food shortages [and] b.) stree hormones, released when fish are always in ech other's face, which would affect growth and probably health also.

TFH Editor-In-Chief David Boruchowitz agreed. "It is my contention, lacking strict empirical studies, that fish are stunted by poison," he said. "A large fish simple cannot remain in a small space for more than a few minutes/hours without poisoning itself with ammonia. Long-term nitrate poisoning is probably also a factor in many cases, as is pheromone non-dilution."

To back this up, he cites an ongoing "five gallon oscar experiment" that he has been conducting for the past couple of years.It has involved rearing a dozen oscars and one pim catfish in a 75-gallon tank, which, if you do the math, comes out to roughly 5.7 gallons of water per fish- far below the 50 gallons per pair that is often recommended. However, to remove ammonia, nitrates, and pheromones, Boruchowitz changes 100 percent of the water in the tank every day, literally draining it down until the oscars are lying on their sides on the bottom. The fish have grown normally, he said and (apart from two that jumped to their deaths, and one that died from aggression) are at least as healthy as any other of the many oscars that Boruchowitz has raised over the years.

Discus breeder and TFH columnist Jack Wattley conducted a similar experiment, the result of which he reported on in his June 2006 column, that seems to back of Boruchowitz's contention that water quality, and not tank size, is at the heart of the problem when potentially large fish are kept in small tanks. In the experiment, Wattley placed identical groups of discus fry into two separate containers; the smaller container, a glass drum, was barely a twelfth the size of the larger tank. Both containers were filled with water that had the same pH, temperature, and conductivity, and both fish were fed the same amount of the same food each day. However, the smaller tank recieved 90% water changes six to eight times every day, while the larger tank recieved only a 40% water change once a day. By the time the experiment ended a month later, the fry in the smaller tank were twice the size of their counterparts in the larger tank


.... discuss? (*no pun intended!)
 
kathainbowen, I did like the pun! You should be pun-ished =D

This is very interesting and made for good reading, great job. Ok there is evidence that water quality is the most important thing, which is something every hobbyist should strive for, but unlike freshwater, massive water changes can be potentially dangerous. Yet we find ourselves at another dilemma: what is the best means to keep the water pristine and stable. TO use myself as a dangerous example... I actually pride myself on having a self-sustaining tank. I have only done about 4-6 gallons of water changes since November despite having a relatively high bioload. Feel free to use this point to your own advantage, but I have figured a system of over skimming (for a lack of a term), bio-export, DSB refugium, and finally, having two 10 gallon tanks where I have more chaeto to further remove undesirables. I add trace elements and replenish CA , Mg and Alk but really I consider my system to be a sustainable tank. Like water changes, I have figured a means to keep my tank as pollution free as possible, zero nitrates and phosphates. Now, back to the original 2.5g tank, doing large percentages of is not a feasible as for freshwater tanks. While water condition is the real issue, not the actual tank size, tank size will affect stability and will allow pollutants to remain in smaller concentrations than larger tanks. Yes, I would agree that a 75 gallon would have stability advantages more than my 40g system, but it is also up to the hobbyist to keep the water parameters up and therefore, depending on the hobbyist, smaller tanks can be both stable, clear and even self sustaining to a limited degree. Now, was this original 2.5g tank set up to be a stable tank or was the planning slightly incomplete? Now are there behavioral side-effects of keeping tangs in very small tanks? That is up to debate, but like Eli’s tank, there is something special about that because there was some advanced knowledge going into the tank and I am interested in how the water quality is maintained.

I am never with or against anyone, I am interested in taking things and putting them in glass boxes to study them.
 
I knew the article was somewhere in the house. I also knew it would be when I completely forgot I was looking for it, that the article would turn up. I was moving furniture around tonight to put my new stand in, and found that the missing issue had fallen behind a table and gone unnoticed for some time. Apparently my fat kitties knocked more than a few things off the night table that had been in the new stand's current place. XD
 
Haha, I wish I could just find interresting reading material while moving furnature, but then I would stop moving and start reading and the moving would never get done. I think I need to upgrade my aquarium library since I only have three books, and two were bargain gifts my girlfriends mother gave me so their big discussion is between the differences of air-driven skimmers and undergravel filters. But, hey, I have checked out several of sprung's work from the campus library for a semester or two, so it can be that bad. Anyways, thanks for the contributions!!!!! and beware those fat cats!
 
Yeah.... that's basically what happened to me. I found all sorts of neat stuff that they've been knocking off that table for months now. Some articles I'd put aside, some letters, a bank statement I'd been hunting for, a pair of earings, a contact juggling sphere, some quick links from my poi, a baby medicine dropper from the pico.... all sorts of things. Silly kitties.

Have you checked out Julian Sprung's Algae: A Problem Sovler's Guide? How in the devil does that man make me want to devour a book about algae? Iunno. My manager made me read a small selection in the book, and, just like him, I ended up reading the whole thing. Excellent book, just like pretty much all of Sprung's books. =D
 
I'm only posting because I saw that there were fellow ACCers on here. I go to Carolina and completely felt Clemson's pain in the Duke game, but they have gotten what was coming to them lately (other than this week at BC--that was shocking). Additionally, I am not impressed with the writings of an alleged Princetonite. I have known NC State grads that seemed much smarter.
 
lol I dont have the time to read all 6 pages but if your going to go with the 2.5gallon tank and make it for your gf then why not frag a mushroom into a heart and put it in the middle and fill the rest of the tank with colorful coral. Saves yourself 25bucks on the clown =)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9263513#post9263513 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mrseptember15
why not frag a mushroom into a heart and put it in the middle and


hahaha great answer- but really how long would it stay heart shaped?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9264042#post9264042 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lessthanlights
hahaha great answer- but really how long would it stay heart shaped?

If you wanted it to stay longer- you could do it with a leather or a ric. That should take a bit longer than a standard mushroom to close back up. But, if you do it with mushrooms, they're pretty tenacious little guys, and they'll just keep coming back for more!

But, y'know, for a pretty smart-*** sounding response, making the heart-shaped frags would be pretty sweet and cool!
 
Why not buy a few pieces of live rock covered with red mushrooms and aquascape that into a heart shape, but then again my girlfriend would be happier with me not spending the money on the tank/tanks.

Ratherbe: Lets hope Duke does not get on a roll, we have the pleasure of revenge in Littlejohn this week. I think this game is our make or break game for the season. Like all Clemson sports this year (Soccer, Football, Basketball) we were on fire for the first half of the season then ice cold the rest. Baseball is ranked #1 right now but lets hope that is not following the same trend.
 
ha! A shot at NC State! I love it!

And Poorcollegereef, I hope you realized that my last post--the "personal attack" was a complete joke.
 
Maybe there should be an ACC sports thread in the lounge (or maybe there is, i've never been to the lounge area).

Poorreefer--I'll be pulling for the Tigers against Koach K and his gang of baby-eaters. I'm glad baseball is ramping back up, our first games have been this weekend. It was nice to see the Heels make it to the CWS last year but then they choked.
 
I understood it as a compliment, thank you. I guess I should be happy that Clemsom still has the second best overall record, now if we could only win these darn ACC games. Uggg. It is also a shame that the ACC tourny is in Tampa, too far away.
 
Glad the compliment was taken.

55semireef--before moving to Arizona, I lived in Gaineville for 3 years. So I try to root for the Gators when I can, but it can be hard sometimes--I grew up in Georgia and my undergrad years were at UVA, so I try to support my ACC teams--even going so far as to root for Duke or Carolina in the dance.

As for Tampa--that is a rather crazy place for the ACC tourney, but Virginia never seems to fare well in the state of North Carolina for the ACC tourney, so I welcome the change!

It is a small tank--plenty of ACC and SEC reefers, it seems.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9264821#post9264821 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Poorcollegereef
Why not buy a few pieces of live rock covered with red mushrooms and aquascape that into a heart shape, but then again my girlfriend would be happier with me not spending the money on the tank/tanks.

Cheaper- star polyps, exacto blades and reef epoxy. It'll also spread into the heart faster.... but these are all terribly cheese-a-rific ideas..... but.... strangely.... that doesn't stop me from grinning at the thought. <3 <3 <3
 
Dog: I would agree that having the tourney in Richmond or even DC would have been nice, but Tampa is just too far for a grad student I guess.

I always pull for the original ACC teams, Hokie High, Miami and BC just dont count yet and FSU to a degree although thats where my father spent some time so that make things fun. Oh well back to the tank I guess.
 
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