I have read this entire thread and just wanted to say thank you for all you have shared. I personally believe that you have been extremely helpful for many of us here. I love your build. Thank you for taking the time to document with pictures and website links for everything anyone has asked about. That all takes time and you have given your time freely. Thanks again - AWESOME!!!!
210 Upgrade Build with LED Build
- Thread starter nuclearheli
- Start date
nuclearheli
Member
Thanks tntdave, I think I am going to stay in my thread. Been getting my butt kicked today in another one.:hammer:
Sorry about the butt kicking. I can't imagine over what given all that I believe you have done to help out. Thanks again. I will be placing a sizeable order with McMaster/Carr in the next few days to start the mechanical portion of an led build myself. I am sure I will have more questions later although I do have enough electrical experience as well as some mechanical to make this light assembly. One question while I have you - did you purchase the gun for the 2 part epoxy? Thanks in advance.
nuclearheli
Member
Well sometimes in these forums it just happens. I made the mistake of offering an alternative solution in response to a question somebody had to using multiple drivers for their new 190 LED build in the DIY forums. Ended up in a flaming crash.
Anyway, yes I did buy the epoxy gun. I have actually found several other uses around the house for the epoxy. Really good stuff and the gun and mixing tip work great. One thing, order more tips. You won't use all the epoxy in the tips and once they are loaded they are shot. The epoxy cartridge however seals back up really nice and is always ready for use.
I have been in the aviation industry for 30 years and we use various epoxies and those guns as well as the different nozzles. You are correct about the nozzles, once they start to dry that is the end of that particular nozzle. Having been in avionics/electronics - there are so many applications that I / we could use in our builds to make these things great. Example is you using the Molex connectors. Your how to video about soldering the pins and sockets versus buying a very expensive crimper is the way to go. I do however have many of the avionic type crimpers but there are times when I absolutely prefer to solder things. Thanks again.
nuclearheli
Member
Agreed. I choose to solder the Molex for two reasons. As you said, I didn't see the point in buying an expensive crimper. But also I don't have very much experience in crimping connectors. It may work in your case since you have so many years of experience with these types of connectors. I continuously worried about having solid connections that would not come loose and potentially arc.
Hope you plan to post pictures, looking forward to your build.
nuclearheli
Member
you have inspired me to build my own, thank you.
I will be using HV drivers but am going to change the LED's up a bit, what do you all think.
Thank you, that is great to hear. That looks like a pretty cool arrangement. In fact I am building two replacement bars right now that have 40 degree optics and a mix of blue and Neutral white just like yours. That's the beauty of the modular build, I am building two replacement bars on my bench. All I have to do is detach the two I want and plug in the two new ones. Done! If I don't like the color spread all I have to do is re-arrange the bars. Again, done no problem.
By the way, be prepared to be flamed for using higher voltage drivers. I can't even post on other threads without being hammered. Also, something I just found out and might be good for you also. According to the international standards and the national electrical code in the US, the drivers we are using are NOT considered High Voltage, they are actually considered low voltage. Something I found out for myself recently.
For the benefit of anyone interested in following my build let's make sure we get the nomenclature right.
Broncos
New member
I've been building a basement around my tank and I'm back again, thinking hard about this LED build...
I really like your attention to safety-now that it's all said and done, where do you think the weakest link (in terms of safety) is in this particular build? AND / OR what scenario do you think is most threatening (shock, fire, etc.) ?
I'm thinking this through for all the various builds I'm watching... I keep coming back to climbing into the tank and hitting the lighting somehow and I'm not sure how to best minimize risk.
I really like your attention to safety-now that it's all said and done, where do you think the weakest link (in terms of safety) is in this particular build? AND / OR what scenario do you think is most threatening (shock, fire, etc.) ?
I'm thinking this through for all the various builds I'm watching... I keep coming back to climbing into the tank and hitting the lighting somehow and I'm not sure how to best minimize risk.
nuclearheli
Member
IMO the most threatening component of any DIY build is shock and the potential for electrocution. That is where I paid the most attention to detail. I don't consider fire a real hazard if you pay attention to detail when you build the rig and you use the proper UL listed components and drivers that are protected.
Understand your concerns. I am not sure I would climb into a tank with any light energized. I assume you will need to get into your tank for routine maintenance (wow large tank). Consider work lights around the tank and shutting down overhead lighting regardless of what type it is. Remember, it only takes a few mA to kill you and standing in a tank of water no LED build I have seen on these threads is safe if you touch an exposed conductor.
That being said after feeding my tank occupants this morning I looked closely at the build and wondered what you could possibly come in contact with that could cause an electrical shock. On the DIY light on top of my tank that I build I honestly couldn't find anything. First and foremost, the actual light frame and superstructure is made from wood. No issue there. Secondly the splash shield is 1/4" Acrylic and covers the entire bottom of the light assembly with the exception of a 1" open border around the edge. No chance of ever touching anything energized there. As far as the LED's are concerned the are all potted and there are no exposed wires to touch, anywhere. I used the same potting material that they use in submerged pumps, you probably have seen the pictures.
So from the bottom side I don't see the exposure hazard. On the top side there are again no exposed conductors. All junctions and connections are made inside of approved electronics boxes. All connectors are pin and socket and rated for 600 volts. All components, drivers, frames, light bars, and other electronics including my EB4 power strip are connected to each other with ground straps. The entire rig is grounded. There is also no way to touch anything on top of the rig from underneath.
I have actually been thinking about your first question for a few weeks now as I prepare to make another light bar for my light. I was not satisified with the optics on the back most bar. I ended up with more light spread on the back wall than I wanted. So I decided to build another light bar with different optics. The modular design of my light makes that simple. Before building this new replacement bar I was thinking about design changes that would make the light even safer, and more high tech. I have come up with the following and I think that may answer your questions regarding weak links in my original design.
1. Thermally Conductive Silicone-Coated Kapton® Polyimide Tape. One place I felt was weak and is weak in all the designs I see is the potential to short to the heat sink. This tape is ideal for use as a thermally conductive dielectric barrier and to fill voids where thermal transfer and electrical isolation is important. While being an excellent thermal transfer tape it has a dielectric strength of 7,000 volts before rupture. I plan to run a strip of this tap down the full length of the light bar before attaching my G11. This will provide a positive barrier preventing the possibility of shorts to the heat sink.
2. Nylon screws. I plan to go back to my original design and use Nylon screws to attach the G11 to my light bars. I can then say after potting my LED's that there is nothing at all conductive facing the front of the light fixture.
3. Dow Corning Sylgard 182. This is a design improvement. I plan to test this material to replace the potting epoxy. This is also a potting material however it's silicon based. According to the literature it provides long-term protection in demanding electronic applications by acting as a dielectric insulator, a barrier against environmental contamination, and a stress-relieving shock and vibration absorber. The real benefit of this material is that it is very easy to remove to replace a bad LED. The potential uses and description include the following:
What I like most about this potting material is that it can be cut away from "sensitive" electronics so not to damage them.
4. PLED6S. This is going to be a really excellent addition to my light and any other serial light build if I can incorporate it correctly into my build. PLED's What is a PLED? It's easier to quote from the company:
I plan to include a circuit diagram and potential installation configurations when I start the build. I will be receiving 200 of these components today. They are not very expensive. I have a plan in my head on how to incorporate these devices into any DIY LED build. There is at this time only one drawback, their maximum operating current is 1 Amp. Since I max out at 700 mA they will work just fine for most builds.
Stay tuned, I am about to start the build of the new light bar in a few days or so. Before hand I will be testing my various new ideas on the bench.
Crazy35111
New member
Heli-
That looks like a nice mod you have going there...Can't wait to see the pics!!
That looks like a nice mod you have going there...Can't wait to see the pics!!
Hi Nuke, I work at the lab with you. I will stop by your office today to let you know who I am. Got turned on to your post by one of your crew. I thought you were strictly nuclear? The build you did is amazing, excellent job. The EE's I work with would be proud. I have a smaller tank going but have the bug and will be building a larger one probably next year.
I did a search first to find your thread, came up with a bunch of other threads I took a look at. It's too bad that there is such a lack of understanding regarding the use of the drivers you have and the steps you took to make your build safe. You will know who I am when I see you later and you know I have been around voltage all my life so I know what I am talking about. I also took a look at some of the other builds and regardless of 300 or 48 volts or whatever, I wouldn't go near them without electrical safety gear on :eek1: There is a lot of flat out wrong information floating around, but that tends to happen. Also some very narrow minded opinions on these builds. Although on the other hand I can see the point some people are making. I found a build where the guy actually had the LED's and a large driver all wired with jumpers and temporary connections, ON HIS KITCHEN COUNTER next to the SINK. It's people like him that is giving your build a bad rep. I wouldn't plug his fixture in at any voltage. But no matter how hard you try your always going to get people that think they know everything and don't have any appreciation for engineering, safety, or quality for that matter. Things that stand out in your build.
Hopefully you will get your point across some day that these drivers are not "High Voltage" by any real industry standard. I think people lost sight of the fact that some of the ballasts used in the MH lighting, multiple 250 and 400 watt bulbs will drop you in an instant given the right shock and circumstances. Also given the right circumstances the lower voltage higher amp drivers can easily stop you in your tracks. Hey, it's all about voltage and current, mess with it without knowing what your doing and your bound to get hurt.
So I will see you later, I am dying to get the latest status of the PLED stuff your working on. I already know what size tank I will be upgrading into. I may actually build the light first and start soon. I am dying to get into this after seeing your light.
I did a search first to find your thread, came up with a bunch of other threads I took a look at. It's too bad that there is such a lack of understanding regarding the use of the drivers you have and the steps you took to make your build safe. You will know who I am when I see you later and you know I have been around voltage all my life so I know what I am talking about. I also took a look at some of the other builds and regardless of 300 or 48 volts or whatever, I wouldn't go near them without electrical safety gear on :eek1: There is a lot of flat out wrong information floating around, but that tends to happen. Also some very narrow minded opinions on these builds. Although on the other hand I can see the point some people are making. I found a build where the guy actually had the LED's and a large driver all wired with jumpers and temporary connections, ON HIS KITCHEN COUNTER next to the SINK. It's people like him that is giving your build a bad rep. I wouldn't plug his fixture in at any voltage. But no matter how hard you try your always going to get people that think they know everything and don't have any appreciation for engineering, safety, or quality for that matter. Things that stand out in your build.
Hopefully you will get your point across some day that these drivers are not "High Voltage" by any real industry standard. I think people lost sight of the fact that some of the ballasts used in the MH lighting, multiple 250 and 400 watt bulbs will drop you in an instant given the right shock and circumstances. Also given the right circumstances the lower voltage higher amp drivers can easily stop you in your tracks. Hey, it's all about voltage and current, mess with it without knowing what your doing and your bound to get hurt.
So I will see you later, I am dying to get the latest status of the PLED stuff your working on. I already know what size tank I will be upgrading into. I may actually build the light first and start soon. I am dying to get into this after seeing your light.
nuclearheli
Member
I know who you are:wavehand: PB told me that you guys were in her office on the computer for almost an hour yesterday looking at the videos and the thread. Turns out there are a ton of people here that are into this, small world. About 3 or 4 months ago I met Mark C. at the LFS I go to one lunch time. Worked with him for probably 20 years and didn't even know he was into this.
Look forward to meeting up with you later. I hope to get the V2 of my light bar replacement running this evening. I took videos of this build and as soon as I get the light bar finished I will put together something to post. I am really anxious to see how the PLED's work out, or work at all. I am confident they should work. I have the bar wired now to the terminal blocks along with the PLED's. Only have LED"S left to mount.
We will talk later, thanks for the post.
nuclearheli
Member
Ok time to celebrate. I have tested my new light bar and it works outstanding. I believe I have solved a problem that plagues every DIY led build out there. I have tested my shunt bypass for the LED's and it works perfectly. I have tested it by disconnecting one or more LED's simulating a short, and the entire string still lights up except for the dead LED's. You can even disconnect the LED's while they are powered up without any damage (wear your electrical gloves).
I have not had time to compile the video of the build but will be doing it shortly. It clearly demonstrates the use of the shunt bypass and protector for the LED, and uses additional safety items to make sure you do not experience a short.
Let it be known that any star design in the future incorporating the PLED bypass feature was first designed and tested right here. I will sue for rights. :dance:
I have not had time to compile the video of the build but will be doing it shortly. It clearly demonstrates the use of the shunt bypass and protector for the LED, and uses additional safety items to make sure you do not experience a short.
Let it be known that any star design in the future incorporating the PLED bypass feature was first designed and tested right here. I will sue for rights. :dance:
Hi Heli,
Lurking on RC for a while now, but this will be my first post...
I have an electronic engineering background and I must say, you are among the very FEW here who pays decent attention to design, safety and good working standards. Keep the good work up :thumbsup:
I broke down my tank (major house reconstruction) a little over 2 years ago, but planning my new build. A led setup similar to yours will be on the top of my list. So the pictures and video are very welcome.
A personal opinion on all the fuzz about this part of your build; Yes, you do need to know the basics about electricity and electronic design AND know what dangers it can bring! But that counts for everything you do in this field. I even can say for everything you do in any DIY field!
If you have NO experience or knowledge, don't start an electronic project but have someone else do it for you or just buy off the shelf products.
Even then you see numerous examples here of potential hazards, of which the "extension cord dangling above the sump" is the most common.......
Again just my personal opinion and no specific pun intended.
Looking forward to see your Led rig V2 in action
Lurking on RC for a while now, but this will be my first post...
I have an electronic engineering background and I must say, you are among the very FEW here who pays decent attention to design, safety and good working standards. Keep the good work up :thumbsup:
I broke down my tank (major house reconstruction) a little over 2 years ago, but planning my new build. A led setup similar to yours will be on the top of my list. So the pictures and video are very welcome.
A personal opinion on all the fuzz about this part of your build; Yes, you do need to know the basics about electricity and electronic design AND know what dangers it can bring! But that counts for everything you do in this field. I even can say for everything you do in any DIY field!
If you have NO experience or knowledge, don't start an electronic project but have someone else do it for you or just buy off the shelf products.
Even then you see numerous examples here of potential hazards, of which the "extension cord dangling above the sump" is the most common.......
Again just my personal opinion and no specific pun intended.
Looking forward to see your Led rig V2 in action
nuclearheli
Member
dido on your opinion and thanks for the comments. V2 bar next post.
nuclearheli
Member
For those still interested in my build I have the version 2 bar finished, installed and working. To recap, the back most bar in my build was in my opinion spreading more light on the back wall of the room rather than the tank. I had that bar jumped out of the light which worked fine. But given the opportunity I decided to build a new bar on my bench with more narrow optics. I made the decision to rebuild the bar because of a few new features I added to the bar that nobody else has done before.
I strongly suggest no matter what your opinion is on my build and the use of the 300 Volt drivers, everyone should consider these modifications to their own DIY build for safety, reliability, and ease of service.
Change 1 in the bar. I added "touch safe" connectors for each of the LED's. They are on the back side of the bar so they are out of site on the light. These will make it really easy to change LED's if they should go bad.
Change 2 **** BIG SAFETY FEATURE and should be added any build. In the picture above you will notice a gray tape on the LED side of the bar. That tape is Thermally-Conductive Kapton(r) Polyimide Tape. It is an excellent thermal transfer media while having strong dielectric properties. It will withstand up to 7000 volts before it breaks down. The tape I used as seen above is 2" wide so it covers the entire face of the heat sink where my LED's will mount with an overlap on both sides. If you use this tape between your LED's and heat sink you will NEVER have a short to the heat sink again.
Change 3, new innovation and a great feature to have. I purchased PLED's which are shunts designed for use with LED's. The open LED protector device (PLEDx) provides an electronic switching shunt path when a single
or even multiple LEDs in the lighting array fails open. This insures the functionality of the remaining lighting array.
The PLED. It is a surface mount device so I had to do some delicate soldering of the tabs once they were expanded flat. Once I got the rhythm it went pretty fast.
The PLED wired and protected with Chemical-Resistant PVC Heat-Shrink Tubing rated at 600 Volts, clear.
The PLED mounted across the + and - terminals of the touch safe terminal blocks on each LED. The PLED runs parallel to the LED.
The finished working light bar. I have a small driver that will run only the white or blue LED's at one time. I use it strictly for testing. The whites are fully lit.
Now a segment of the LED bar to demonstrate the effectiveness of the PLED. Here all the LED's are lit.
I disconnected the power to the bar and intentionally simulated a short by removing the + wire from the terminal block of one of the white LED's. The next picture shows the simulated shorted LED dark as it should be, but the remaining bar stay's lit.
And so ends the V2 story, I made videos of the build and when I have time I will assemble them into a tutorial and post it.
The Light after I changed the back bar. Works perfectly and I never have to worry about shorting a LED to the heat sink or having a blown LED take down the entire light.
Almost forgot, here is the newly modified light
I strongly suggest no matter what your opinion is on my build and the use of the 300 Volt drivers, everyone should consider these modifications to their own DIY build for safety, reliability, and ease of service.
Change 1 in the bar. I added "touch safe" connectors for each of the LED's. They are on the back side of the bar so they are out of site on the light. These will make it really easy to change LED's if they should go bad.
Change 2 **** BIG SAFETY FEATURE and should be added any build. In the picture above you will notice a gray tape on the LED side of the bar. That tape is Thermally-Conductive Kapton(r) Polyimide Tape. It is an excellent thermal transfer media while having strong dielectric properties. It will withstand up to 7000 volts before it breaks down. The tape I used as seen above is 2" wide so it covers the entire face of the heat sink where my LED's will mount with an overlap on both sides. If you use this tape between your LED's and heat sink you will NEVER have a short to the heat sink again.
Change 3, new innovation and a great feature to have. I purchased PLED's which are shunts designed for use with LED's. The open LED protector device (PLEDx) provides an electronic switching shunt path when a single
or even multiple LEDs in the lighting array fails open. This insures the functionality of the remaining lighting array.
The PLED. It is a surface mount device so I had to do some delicate soldering of the tabs once they were expanded flat. Once I got the rhythm it went pretty fast.
The PLED wired and protected with Chemical-Resistant PVC Heat-Shrink Tubing rated at 600 Volts, clear.
The PLED mounted across the + and - terminals of the touch safe terminal blocks on each LED. The PLED runs parallel to the LED.
The finished working light bar. I have a small driver that will run only the white or blue LED's at one time. I use it strictly for testing. The whites are fully lit.
Now a segment of the LED bar to demonstrate the effectiveness of the PLED. Here all the LED's are lit.
I disconnected the power to the bar and intentionally simulated a short by removing the + wire from the terminal block of one of the white LED's. The next picture shows the simulated shorted LED dark as it should be, but the remaining bar stay's lit.
And so ends the V2 story, I made videos of the build and when I have time I will assemble them into a tutorial and post it.
The Light after I changed the back bar. Works perfectly and I never have to worry about shorting a LED to the heat sink or having a blown LED take down the entire light.
Almost forgot, here is the newly modified light
Last edited:
nuclearheli
Member
Thought about that and have it in the video. I masked off the three sides of the bar and sprayed the connectors with SR Fine-L-Kote. Specifically formulated for spraying electronics to stop corrosion.
nuclearheli
Member
Thanks,
Now that will look cool for sure.
I lost 5 fish and 2 cleaner shrimp this summer due to heat issues - we were gone for a week and had someone living in the house, but the tank temperature got to 91 degrees while he was out for the day
I had 2x250 MH and T5's on my before building the 210. The 210 uses a fraction of the power and doesn't dump any heat into the tank
Ordered it from McMaster-Carr. www.mcmaster.com. Part number is 171A23. That was the 2" x 3' roll. They were out of stock on the bigger roll but I only really needed 2 rolls of 3' anyway.
I assume you mean simulated 'open'?
Yes, stand corrected.
Ordered mine from Digi-key. Part number PLED6S. Here is a link to a PDF from LittleFuse
http://www.littelfuse.com/data/en/Data_Sheets/Littelfuse_PLED6.pdf
The PLED6S was easy to connect the leads to. The surface mount tabs can be folded out and easily soldered.
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