2X4 frame or pocket screws?

[atcaw94]

I'm looking to build a stand for my new 85 gallon rimless tank. I built a stand/canopy before, but built it on a 2X4 frame, like most DIYers.
I'm thinking about building one using 3/4" birch or oak plywood using pocket screws, no 2X4 frame.
It seems most of the professional ones I see do this, no internal frame.
It would be 50" long, 24" wide, and 36" tall.
Any thoughts, input?

 

[billdogg]

Assuming you can cut the plywood square, it will be more than strong enough and you will have more space underneath for a larger sump.

 

[atcaw94]

Assuming you can cut the plywood square, it will be more than strong enough and you will have more space underneath for a larger sump.

That's also one of the reasons I wanted to do it that way.
I'm also thinking of now putting the regular two doors on hinges.
Wanting to do one large "pull out" door, it that makes sense.

 

[mcgyvr]

If build properly a 3/4" plywood stand is more than sufficient..
Now "If you can build it properly" is something we can't judge over the internet

 

[atcaw94]

If build properly a 3/4" plywood stand is more than sufficient..
Now "If you can build it properly" is something we can't judge over the internet

True dat.

However, I've looked through hundreds of posts on building stands, and like I said most DIY are 2X4, most pro's are not. If you have the jig, it doesn't appear pocket screwing is that difficult, just figuring how many to use per joint.
Cost wise, probably little more for pocket screw stand. Have to buy jig ($40) and 3/4 plywood vs. 2X4's and thinner plywood.

I guess I'm asking if those that have built stands without 2X4's, do you have any suggestions, or helpful tips?

 

[mcgyvr]

The Kreg jig is awesome.. I love mine..
When in doubt overkill it.. screw every 8-10 inches..


What sort of finish are you looking for?

If using Birch and you want to stain it you need wood conditioner or it will look like crap.. Oak doesn't need it.
Get iron on edge banding if using veneered plywood and you can trim it with a razor blade after its stuck.

 

[A sea K]

I just built a stand using 3/4 plywood but did not pocket screw the joints. I used a biscuit jointer and glue. Its basically a 34x34 square with one corner cut off and is VERY solid, the DT is only 24x24 and 30 gallons but I'm confident the stand will hold a lot more

 

[jlanger]

That's also one of the reasons I wanted to do it that way.
I'm also thinking of now putting the regular two doors on hinges.
Wanting to do one large "pull out" door, it that makes sense.

I guess I'm asking if those that have built stands without 2X4's, do you have any suggestions, or helpful tips?

When it comes to building standard-sized wooden aquarium stands, I like to categorize them into three groups:
- 2by Stand: Built with a lumber frame and skinned in plywood.
- Box Stand: Built using plywood for all sides with trim to cover edges.
- Cabinet Stand: Built with a solid wood face frame and solid wood/plywood sides and solid wood doors/panels.

Building a plywood box stand is very easy and relatively cheap.
As they've mentioned above, make sure your cuts are accurate and the joints are glued and screwed appropriately to create a strong bond. The glue is the most important component with any wood joint.
On to the doors...
I'm assuming you meant "not" putting the regular two doors on hinges; not "now".
When it comes to installing hinges, having the hinge screws go into a piece of solid wood is preferred. Having the screws going into the end grain layers of veneer doesn't create the compression that holds the screw in place; plywood will flex away from the screw and eventually loosen. If you are thinking of just hanging a panel on the front, you will have better options with the plywood box and panel.

But this is my personal preference"¦ the cabinet stand.
Having the solid wood face frame on the front of the tank (or any side that will open) will ensure a better and longer life of the stand. The solid wood helps to prevent any moisture from getting into the veneer layers of the plywood and causing any swelling and water damage to the stand.
You can build the face frame using the same pocket screws as you would with the plywood box; and even attach the face frame using the screws.

I have a very detailed build thread that shows how I built my cabinet stand for my 120gal.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2266751
I know, an update is long overdue!
But the stand looks just like it did from day one with no issues.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.
Good luck.

 

[atcaw94]

When it comes to building standard-sized wooden aquarium stands, I like to categorize them into three groups:
- 2by Stand: Built with a lumber frame and skinned in plywood.
- Box Stand: Built using plywood for all sides with trim to cover edges.
- Cabinet Stand: Built with a solid wood face frame and solid wood/plywood sides and solid wood doors/panels.

Building a plywood box stand is very easy and relatively cheap.
As they've mentioned above, make sure your cuts are accurate and the joints are glued and screwed appropriately to create a strong bond. The glue is the most important component with any wood joint.
On to the doors...
I'm assuming you meant "not" putting the regular two doors on hinges; not "now".
When it comes to installing hinges, having the hinge screws go into a piece of solid wood is preferred. Having the screws going into the end grain layers of veneer doesn't create the compression that holds the screw in place; plywood will flex away from the screw and eventually loosen. If you are thinking of just hanging a panel on the front, you will have better options with the plywood box and panel.

But this is my personal preference… the cabinet stand.
Having the solid wood face frame on the front of the tank (or any side that will open) will ensure a better and longer life of the stand. The solid wood helps to prevent any moisture from getting into the veneer layers of the plywood and causing any swelling and water damage to the stand.
You can build the face frame using the same pocket screws as you would with the plywood box; and even attach the face frame using the screws.

I have a very detailed build thread that shows how I built my cabinet stand for my 120gal.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2266751
I know, an update is long overdue!
But the stand looks just like it did from day one with no issues.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.
Good luck.

Ummmm, damn. That's WAY beyond my capability, even if I had the tools.
You are correct, I was trying to get away from two hinged doors. I was thinking one large door, (with possibly smoked glass or plexiglass insert. Why have a nice Ruby Trigger sump if you can't see it?) but I'm unsure how to attach it. I think I read some people used door magnets?

 

[atcaw94]

The Kreg jig is awesome.. I love mine..
When in doubt overkill it.. screw every 8-10 inches..


What sort of finish are you looking for?

If using Birch and you want to stain it you need wood conditioner or it will look like crap.. Oak doesn't need it.
Get iron on edge banding if using veneered plywood and you can trim it with a razor blade after its stuck.

Now that I know, I'll go with oak. I think the 4X8 piece of oak ply was around $50.

 

[A sea K]

Now that I know, I'll go with oak. I think the 4X8 piece of oak ply was around $50.

Yep, thats about right. $54.00 at my local Lowes.

 

[woodnaquanut]

Ummmm, damn. That's WAY beyond my capability, even if I had the tools.
You are correct, I was trying to get away from two hinged doors. I was thinking one large door, (with possibly smoked glass or plexiglass insert. Why have a nice Ruby Trigger sump if you can't see it?) but I'm unsure how to attach it. I think I read some people used door magnets?

Don't despair. Did you read the part about Jason being a pro cabinet maker for the last 15 years?

Yours doesn't have to look like Jason's to be a great stand for you.

Jason, I love your definitions for the types of stands.

I built mine, a cabinet, for my 120g. I looked at some commercial stands and used their best points in mine. So far, it's held up great. The quake in Napa caused about a liter or two of water to slosh out. The stand survived!

One of the things I've noticed about commercial stands is the sides are thicker than 3/4" ply. When I built mine I glued two sheets of 3/4" together. This made it easy to create a dado for the top.

As others have said, if you can cut straight and square you can build a stand out of plywood. It might even be easier than using 2x material!

 

[atcaw94]

This may seem like a dumb question, but if I want a stand 50" long, how do I do that when the plywood comes in 48" long sheets?

 

[A sea K]

This may seem like a dumb question, but if I want a stand 50" long, how do I do that when the plywood comes in 48" long sheets?

Plywood is 48" wide and 96" long so you have plenty for a 50" long stand.

 

[atcaw94]

Plywood is 48" wide and 96" long so you have plenty for a 50" long stand.

Sorry, my bad, don't know what I was thinking, of course 4X8....:facepalm:

 

[billdogg]

This may seem like a dumb question, but if I want a stand 50" long, how do I do that when the plywood comes in 48" long sheets?

It will depend on which direction you want the grain to run. IMHO, vertical grain looks much better than horizontal grain. That will require you to use 2 pieces cut at 25" and then joined together for the front and back of the stand. It will complicate the build a bit, but still is not that big of a deal.

 

[rssayer]

If I could add my two bits here since I'm a woodworker/cabinet maker....
the span your trying to stretch 50" would be too far of a stretch if only using 3/4' ply, assuming your talking about having one large wide door in the front. if you put a center brace between two doors than this would be fine. The other concern I would have is the longer a door is the more pressure your going to have on the top hinge and the door itself-end result will be a sagging door or worse yet it rips the screws out of the wood. To be on the safe side I would put atleast one 2x4 across the top of the stand to help carry the load and have a center brace pushing the weight to the ground....two doors to allow access. this way we can avoid stress on the tank. flexing in stands leads to bad things.

 

[atcaw94]

If I could add my two bits here since I'm a woodworker/cabinet maker....
the span your trying to stretch 50" would be too far of a stretch if only using 3/4' ply, assuming your talking about having one large wide door in the front. if you put a center brace between two doors than this would be fine. The other concern I would have is the longer a door is the more pressure your going to have on the top hinge and the door itself-end result will be a sagging door or worse yet it rips the screws out of the wood. To be on the safe side I would put atleast one 2x4 across the top of the stand to help carry the load and have a center brace pushing the weight to the ground....two doors to allow access. this way we can avoid stress on the tank. flexing in stands leads to bad things.

It's wasn't going to be a door, I know that hinges would be a bad idea on a door that large. Here's a pic, it's the second from the top, right.
http://www.glasscages.com/?sAction=ViewCat&lCatID=7

But.....I'm thinking two doors will be what I end up with. I just need to make sure I can get my sump in and out.
The sump is 36" long.

 

[asudavew]

I have the Harbor Freight pocket screw jig. It's all metal and works hellagood.
I love the darn thing. Even comes with a really good drill bit. Wish I would have bought it years ago.


Harbor Freight's pocket screws really suck though.
Buy the real version from Amazon or Lowes.

Good luck!

 

[atcaw94]

I think I'm gonna try and build something like this, except the top part:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1213499

Basically 2x6 lengthwise across front of tank with two 2x4's running vertical on ends. Full sheet plywood on back. The 2x6 in front takes the load of the tank, allowing the full cutout in front.

So, do I need to do any kind of joint, or can I just glue and nail? Not even sure pocket screws are necessary. Or should I still pocket screw?
What you guys think?