300+ dead

[landlord]

I haven't had any issues yet, no misbars, etc. What types of problems have you read about? Don't get me wrong, I'm no marine biologist, just a hobbyiest, so could this be bad, possibly sure.

My goal in this feeding regimen of...

3 days rotifers, 7 days BBS, followed by Otohime foods: Grade A from day 10 till 17-20 then grade B1, etc etc etc with a couple days of Otohime grade overlapping so they get used to the food sizes

... is to get maximum survival rates and quickly wein them onto Otohime foods. It works well but who knows maybe I am introducing problems, they just haven't manifested in anything noticeable to me or the growth and long term survival of the fish.

I am curious to know what you've heard regarding a BBS only diet. I won't pass up a chance to do things better for sure.


Thanks Kurt

 

[Tahoe Reefer]

I read in Joyce Wilkerson's book that NHBBS aren't a balanced diet for clowns because it lacks DHA and they're low in protein. Also a diet of only NHBBS increases the chance of "shock" deaths.

 

[reggiepe]

If I am ready this correctly....I believe what Landlord has stated that he adds the NHBS to the fry tank and they consume the rots and phyto that is there. Essentially the NHBS are being gutloaded before they are consumed by the fry. I do the same thing with my Bangaii fry. I gutload the NHBS at the 24 hour mark and on. I believe that the NHBS still has some nutritional value up to the 24 hour mark. Of course the first few hours after hatching are the best for feeding. I was told to try gutloading rots and then feeding them to the NHBS once. Someday I may try that, but for me right now it is easier to skip that added step. Landlord is essentially doing that right in the fry tank and it sounds like he has a successful plan. Good Luck.

 

[landlord]

I also presoak the nhbbs in selcon for an hour or so. In the hopes they pickup some of the fatty goodness that I believe selcon affords.

 

[reggiepe]

In a post I had made a couple of months ago regarding SFS in Bangaiis. Frank Marini responded and stated that he wasn't sure if Selcon was doing anything for the NHBS. (I'll have to look for the post) I was doing this as well, but that was my only method of fortifying the NHBS. I have steered away from using that method now and use phyto to gutload. I had read the Selcon or Selco (depends where you get it from) is given to NHBS as they will basically eat anyting that is suspended in the water column. That finding was what steered me in the direction to fortify with Selcon.

 

[landlord]

I don't know if they are consuming it or if it simply coats them and honestly I cannot tell one way or the other if it helps, but I've been getting some really nice GSM babies so I figure I'll let it ride for awhile. There are much better foods for gutloading NHBBS according to some of the pros over on MOFIB.

 

[birddog486]

I've read putting in too much BBS can cause the fry to overeat and kill them. How do you know how many are in the water if it's really green?

Also, I think I've read somewhere that Newly hatched BBS cannot eat for the first 12-24 hrs? If thats the case is there any reason to soak them before putting them in the tank?

 

[reggiepe]

I do need to go back and find my post and reread what Frank had stated about Selcon. I just read an article that he wrote for Advanced Aquarist (The Breeders Net)

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/dec2002/breeder.htm

This is a small excerpt:

"Other enrichment products have been created to boost specific aspects of the predator nutritional diet, and these products include feeding phytoplanktons, yeast, micro-particulate diets and self-emulsifying concentrates to the nauplii. According to (Lavens, 1987) the highest enrichment levels can be obtained by adding emulsified concentrates, such as Selco to the Artemia’s diet. Selco (also known as Selcon or super Selco) is a self-dispersing complex of selected marine oil sources, vitamins, and carotenoids and upon dilution in seawater disperses into microparticles that are readily ingested by Artemia."

So, what you are doing is what he suggested. He states that they do ingest it. So, I must be going crazy...yeah, that's my story and I am sticking to it. Maybe he will swing in here and set us all straight an that subject.

I wish the search feature was back up. I am having a terrible time finding my old posts.

 

[rkelman]

why not just skip the NHBBS all together? I get maybe 1% misbars with otohime.. BBS are waay to much work for me.

 

[Tahoe Reefer]

why not just skip the NHBBS all together? I get maybe 1% misbars with otohime.. BBS are waay to much work for me.

I've seen similar quotes that mention of misbar % with diet. How much of an effect can diet have on baring?
I raised a batch of B & W clowns last year with the parents being semi mis bared, body and tail bars broken 3 of 4 possible breakson one fish and 2 of 4 on the other fish. I raised the fry on rotis, fed with Roti-Feast and Seclon, then Othi A and then NHBBS + flakes and then frozen + flake food. Out of 48 fry I had 3 full bared fish. One of the fish only ended up growing a head bar and 1/2 a body bar.

sorry for the hi-jacked thread, this seemed like a good place to get an answer to that.

Thnx reggiep for that link, interesting read.

 

[birddog486]

No prob, I don't see it as a hijack. I'm new to raising saltwater fish, specifically clowns and I can use all the information I can get.

 

[bexar]

"Out of 48 fry I had 3 full bared fish. One of the fish only ended up growing a head bar and 1/2 a body bar".

I'm also new to this, but wouldn't you expect to get mostly mis bars if both parents are semi mis bars? Maybe along with diet, wouldn't genetics play a larger part in this scenario?

I would think depending on how far back the mis bar go (the parent's parent and so on...) would tell you an estimation of the amount of non-mis bars to expect. I would guess that the mis bars were a few generations back concidering only 3 came out non.

Again, I'm new to this and willing to learn as much as I can.

Bexar

P.S. Nice to see what I concider the "Pros" chiming in here.

 

[rkelman]

I think the misbars happen for a variety of reasons. Genetics obviously play a role to some extent I think. My misbars are very few and far between now. I feel its due to better food / cleaner water and to some extent egg quality. Now your mileage may vary. Obviously the diet Tahoe Reefer was using was very good so I don't think the misbars he is having are because of diet. I'm not ready to blame genetics just yet either though. What is the water change schedule on the broodstock tank and the larvae tanks? How many times have they laid? Initial egg quality could be playing a role here as well.

 

[birddog486]

Well, over the past couple weeks I've lost 2 more clutches of fry. The nice thing is the adult pair are like clockwork and she lays alot of eggs. 10 days between cluches and 8 days between the hatch.

One clutch I lost to fungus because I didn't have the air close enough to the eggs or not turned up high enough, and the last bunch only hatched a handfull of eggs because I forgot to turn off a blue light I was using in the fish room.

I think it was just to much light for them to hatch or I didn't have enought air beating the eggs and they couldn't get out of the egg, there was no fungus until the afternoon the next day after hatching should have occured. I'm using a clay pot and I'm having a hard time to get an airstone just right to hit the eggs.

From the handfull that hatched there is 1 still alive at 4 days today, and the Original 1 fry that is alive from the start of this journey is about 3/8" now with 2 stripes.

I also noticed the 4 other fry that hatched from the last group were hanging on the walls again after I tinted the water with nanno 3600 and I think they starved or ran out of energy because they weren't eating on day 2. The rotifers were really thick in the tank so there was plenty to eat.

I only added a slight tint so maybe I need to add more color to the water next time so they can see the rotifers better.

I'm not giving up yet:rollface:

 

[GreshamH]

I've seen similar quotes that mention of misbar % with diet. How much of an effect can diet have on baring?
I raised a batch of B & W clowns last year with the parents being semi mis bared, body and tail bars broken 3 of 4 possible breakson one fish and 2 of 4 on the other fish. I raised the fry on rotis, fed with Roti-Feast and Seclon, then Othi A and then NHBBS + flakes and then frozen + flake food. Out of 48 fry I had 3 full bared fish. One of the fish only ended up growing a head bar and 1/2 a body bar.

sorry for the hi-jacked thread, this seemed like a good place to get an answer to that.

Thnx reggiep for that link, interesting read.

Rotifer Diet, not Roti-Feast (easy mistake)

 

[ernienemo]

Where do you get your Rotifers?, and method of feeding your fry?