300 Gallon Setup Feedback

[david40price]

Hi guys/gals, so I am preparing to setup a 300 gallon mixed reef. This aquarium will be located in the wall between an office and a living room. I want the least amount of "things" in the tank, such as wave makers, etc.... I have attached two pictures, one showing the plumbing as well as an overview shot on the 2nd image of the planned drilled holes. I am interested in any feedback you might have on this design as well as anything I should watch for.

The plan is to have this sump located in the basement beneath the aquarium. I actually service a few tanks with this design. The difference here is my sump will be located about 30 feet away, so I need to plan for a larger sump to accommodate all the extra water in the feed/drain lines.

So, the plan is as follows:
Custom Aquariums 300 gallon (96"L x 30"H x 24"D).
Steel stand from Custom Aquariums.
8 holes to be drilled in the bottom for Oceans Motions wave maker.
Ghost Overflow, one on each end for minimal intrusion.
Plumbing to be Bean design. In the picture you will see the "emergency" lines coming down. They will dump out in the middle somewhere so I can hear them if they are ever activated so to speak.
I will have 2 Oceans Motions 4-Way wave makers. These will be plumbed into the bottom of the tank and the nossels camoflauged with coral/rock. I've seen pictures of this and it looks great.
The Oceans Motions units will be directly connected to my two return pumps. I had thought about doing these as a closed loop system, but giving the height of tank, I wanted the least amount of stuff over the tank, such as return lines, to block my access when adding/adjusting coral and maintenance.
I will use Radion LED's although I am not sure which yet. Right now my focus is on the design of the aquarium and plumbing. Lighting to be sorted out sooner than later though.
I haven't gotten to the point of deciding on which UV I'll use, or the Protein Skimmer, but rest assured they will be part of this equation as well as a chiller, titanium heater, APEX controller, etc....

So I am asking for your feedback on this design. Do you see any issues? I was planning on 3000 GPH so with the head pressure I will size the pumps according.

Oceans Motions felt I should have only one return and use two different patterns on the Oceans Motions units to create a gyre effect. I'm concerned with such a long tank, I won't get enough flow through just one.

Oh and one more thing, I was planning to use the new Automatic Roller Mat that BRS is selling. If I go with two pumps, I'll probably need 5 of these as they throughput is not enough for this volume of water.

Please provide feedback. Very excited about this build.

 

[twon8]

IMO you don't want all your flow coming from return pumps. And I'm not a fan of putting 8 holes in the bottom of the tank. Too many holes for leaks. UV and a chiller are superfluous and generally not needed.


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[david40price]

Feedback

Feedback

Yeah I am not sure about drilling 8 holes in the bottom either and that is quite concerning to me. Curious as to why you think having the return pumps on the oceans motions devices is a bad idea? Vivid Aquariums has a 800 gallon setup this way and has been running I think for 8 years. They have nothing but great things to say about it. As for a chiller, that is a must where I live. The summers get pretty hot. I'd rather have it for safe keeping more than anything, and I wouldn't run any saltwater tank with fish without UV. With UV I've seen nothing but great success, without it I see nothing but problems.

 

[twon8]

300 Gallon Setup Feedback

I'm further south than you and have run tanks since 2003 without chillers. Dropping metal halides for leds has made it even easier. Fans and a controller to shut off lights if tank approaches 85F can control the heat as long as area is air conditioned.

That much flow going through your return will result in a loud tank, with the water flushing down the drains. I use an eheim 1262 dialed down for my return and it is plenty. I do have about 20,000 gph in tank flow via tunze streams. A tunze wavebox would work well in your size tank given the rectangular shape. And it could be hidden behind the rock on one end of tank. The apex WAV is also something worth checking out. I have never used any OM so I can't speak to their effectiveness, but 3000 gph is no where near sufficient flow for a 300g IMO


Regarding lighting, I am a big fan of t5/led combo and I suggest you get a few t5's on there along with the radions.


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[ClownNut]

save your money buy some nice power heads. you can even custom the tank to hide them if you dont like the looks of having power heads in the tank. too many holes on the bottom = chance to leak and impossible to fix without draining the tank. big pump = more energy use also PITA to clean. if you do close-loop you cant change your mind later, god know how much we like to monkey around our tank(s).

 

[david40price]

Feedback to Twon8

Feedback to Twon8

Thanks on the feedback. Yeah I plan to put in an APEX and I'll have fans in the canopy to remove excess heat. I often like to have the windows open in the summer which is my main reason for the chiller. I have a few customers with similar configurations and the chillers run quite a bit even with good cooling over. I know it may not be used, but would rather be safe than sorry.

You think I'll get a lot of noise from that much water going through the returns even using full siphon? I know those are dead silent when setup properly.

I'll check out the tunze wavebox. I'll have to dig through the forums looking for people who have used OM and see what experiences they have had, any issues, pro's/con's.

I am honestly surprised nobody else has chimed in here. I figured with this tank size and what I plan to do would generate a lot of chatter. hmmmm

Yeah I do like T5's too. I may do a combo. I see a lot of new fixtures coming out that have a mix of the two. I read a lot where some people are convinced you don't need the combo and others are just as convinced you do...

Thanks!

 

[gstuman]

David,

I used to have a 250 gallon SPS tank that was similar to yours and here's what I can pass on after running that tank for 6 years.

1. 30" height on a tank is a serious PITA because it's hard to reach the bottom of the tank with your arm. For some reason 24" is much easier. I would think about switching your tank dimensions and make the height 24" and the depth 30" as a deeper tank is better for creating interesting rockwork and grottos.

2. I had a closed loop with a Dart pump and 4 (not 8) intakes and exits. I didn't like it at all for two main reasons: (a) it added a lot of heat to the tank; and (b) the flow was too directed, even with the rotating heads, and flanges. I finally upgraded to Tunze and then Vortech which really send a gentle, large wave of flow across the tank.

3. Don't ditch the chiller just yet. You will need to run the tank and see how it does with the equipment you install. If you have a few submerged pumps in the system plus an enclosed canopy (not rimless) then you will get heat buildup even with LEDs. Fans help but sometimes are not enough. It also depends where you want to keep your tank temp. I always kept mine around 78 - 80 with mostly Indo Pacific specimens. Lower temps also seem to cut down on algae blooms. As always, it's not the actual temp as much as the stability of the temp that matters. I couldn't maintain my room at a comfortable human temp without the tank edging into the mid 80's so the chiller was necessary.

Another bonus of ditching the closed loop and using Vortech pumps is that Ecotech makes great controllers that allow you to simulate the current and light in one controller. If you decide to go with Radion.

Additional Equipment:

Calcium Reactor. You might as well budget a Calcium Reactor now as dosing a tank that size is really not practical compared to a Ca Reactor. You can control the CO2 very well from the Apex controller with some pH probes. I find Ca Reactors very easy to set up if you use a decent CO2 regulator and needle valve. This will mean another pump in the system warming the water again.

ATO. Also, top off water is quite a chore in a large tank if you don't automate it. I would recommend a Tunze Osmolator pumping from a separate container that you can have filled with a RODI system with float valve. I'll admit I have put ATOs hooked directly to the RODI unit and never suffered a failure. However, if it happened to stick open your tank would desalinize (if you have an emergency overflow to direct any excess water OUT of your house; or if you don't have an emergency drain then it will flood your house given enough time. It's probably worth pumping out of a container that has a limited capacity for this. Make sure you have an additional overflow line that goes from the top of your sump to the OUTSIDE of your house. It's bad enough to lose your inhabitants in the tank but it's MUCH worse to have a $50,000 homeowner's claim. The emergency overflow should be high enough in the sump that when the main pump is shut off that the water draining to the sump will not reach the emergency drain.

Protein Skimmer. I've been watching this debate over skimmers for 20 years and here's my take. Skim the hell out of the tank and keep your water very clean and add supplements via water changes, etc. A refugium also works well with some fast growing algae you can cut and export Nitrate. I used a large Bubble King rated up to around 500 gal, externally mounted beside the sump. Yes, yet another pump to add heat.

Try not to use filters that clog with crap like bioballs, fluval power filters, etc. I always tried to have my returns empty into one large filter sock in the sump. I bought 5 filter socks at a time and changed these quite often. I could generally wash them with no soap in the washing machine after rinsing them off well and get a few uses out of each.

I don't think you need a UV filter. I've used them and never found them to work.

That's all I can think of now for equipment.

You should really pick a biotope now and stick with it so you can design the tank to the specific conditions you are looking to emulate, i.e. flow, light, turbulence, types of corals and fishes. This part deserves a whole thread by itself.

 

[david40price]

Feedback to Gstuman

Feedback to Gstuman

Hey man thanks for all the info. I too was thinking about the 30" height as being possibly to high to work with. I know even now I struggle with my 29" cube and it's not in a wall! So I may very well switch to 24" high.

Thanks on the Calcium Reactor info. I hadn't thought about that. I haven't used one before so I'll need to give that some more thought.

I had planned to use a RO float valve on the sump to control water and have a salinity probe monitor the salt via apex sending me an alert if it detects it dropping. Good idea or bad in your opinion?

I was also thinking of ditching the oceans motions idea based on things I've been reading and going either with vortech which I have one now (mp40) or possibly using sea swirl. I have one of those on a customers tank and it seems to work very well. I'm thinking 4 across the top and all I'll see is the nozzle. Thoughts on that? It would keep something mechanical out of the tank and I could attach those directly to the return lines. That is how I usually see them setup.

I'm sure I'll need that chiller based on everything I plan to do.

Do you have any opinion on which aquarium manufacturer I should go with? I got a price from Reef Savy and also one from Custom Aquariums. Amazed in how far apart they are on price. I can't find anything negative on either manufacturer.

 

[david40price]

Feedback to Gstuman

Feedback to Gstuman

Oh and thanks on the protein skimmer comment. I couldn't agree more! I was planning to oversize whatever I get.

I have filter socks now and was looking to go with that new filter mat that BRS is selling. Looks fantastic and pretty much immediate export of nutrients before they can start to break down.

I was also planning to do an algae scrubber.

 

[gstuman]

David,

Get the basics going first and see how your water quality starts shaping up. I would start with just the basic live rock (make sure it's really, really cycled; don't be in a hurry), then add skimming and let the tank stabilize with some light loads. You need to get the temp, pH, salinity to stay stable first, then start adding components. You REALLY need to know what your tank baseline is so you can see how additional equipment is affecting the tank.

For instance. If you are getting huge pH swings because your water is not buffered enough and don't stabilize this before adding a Ca Reactor then you will have no idea what is going on when the CO2 starts knocking your pH down. Is it the reactor? Is it something else? If the tank is stable before adding the reactor then you know it's the reactor causing the changes.

As to UV, algae filters, Nitrate filters, etc. Generally, you will find you don't need them by the time you have carefully added the basics to your tank. Leave them for last. Maybe they will help; maybe they wont.

Glass Cages in in Michigan and they sell a 300 gal tank that is 96 long, 30 deep, and 24 high. I would get it in starfire glass or whatever the non-green stuff is called these days. It's heavy, but glass is hard to scratch. My experience with Acrylic is that it scratches if you look at it wrong and then it will demand a safe zone to be protected from your microaggressions.

I purchased a really nice tank from Miracles Aquariums out of Toronto once as they were the only guys who could make what I wanted. You would have to add on customs duty, but, years ago the Miracles tanks were just built better than most tanks.

 

[TangingOut]

I like the idea of using multiple seaswirls instead of the oceans motions, but I would use them in combo with powerheads/wavemakers.

Also, start a build thread with lots of pictures. That will generate a lot of chatter.

 

[twon8]

300 Gallon Setup Feedback

Hey man thanks for all the info. I too was thinking about the 30" height as being possibly to high to work with. I know even now I struggle with my 29" cube and it's not in a wall! So I may very well switch to 24" high.



Thanks on the Calcium Reactor info. I hadn't thought about that. I haven't used one before so I'll need to give that some more thought.



I had planned to use a RO float valve on the sump to control water and have a salinity probe monitor the salt via apex sending me an alert if it detects it dropping. Good idea or bad in your opinion?



I was also thinking of ditching the oceans motions idea based on things I've been reading and going either with vortech which I have one now (mp40) or possibly using sea swirl. I have one of those on a customers tank and it seems to work very well. I'm thinking 4 across the top and all I'll see is the nozzle. Thoughts on that? It would keep something mechanical out of the tank and I could attach those directly to the return lines. That is how I usually see them setup.



I'm sure I'll need that chiller based on everything I plan to do.



Do you have any opinion on which aquarium manufacturer I should go with? I got a price from Reef Savy and also one from Custom Aquariums. Amazed in how far apart they are on price. I can't find anything negative on either manufacturer.

RO float valve in your sump is a bad idea. Never hook RO unit directly up to your tank. Float valves stick and then your house will flood.

I personally use a litermeter 3 set to dose 29 liters of kalkwasser in small doses spread out during the day to my 300g and it is enough to keep up with alk/ca demand on sps heavy tank. So a calcium reactor is not a necessary piece of equipment IMO. I prefer to run higher ph tha comes from kalk usage.

Sea swirls are ok, but not in the same league as a propeller DC pump IMO

I'm personally a tunze fan but vortechs have plenty of happy customers also.


A Good exhaust fan vented to the outside is a great thing to have.