320 gallons of Serenity, Sea Monsters & Sanctuary

[mvsjrs]

So, the good, the bad, the ugly. My LPS overall are static/poor health—although more static than looking like they are going to expire. They definitely don’t pass the 30k foot visual test. While I have lowered faith home testing, these are what I got from what kits I had on hand. Unless otherwise noted, the tests are taken from water sourced in the inductor tank since it is the immediate outflow of the display tank.

8.4 (Hanna pH pen)
1.024/1.025 salinity (Milwaukee tester)
13.7 kH (Hanna calorimeter)
0 ammonia (test strip)
<0.25 ammonia (Mardel kit)
0 nitrite (test strip)
0 nitrate (Hagen kit #1)
0 nitrate (Hagen kit #2)
2-5 ppm nitrate (Salifert kit)
12.5 ppm nitrate (Tetra kit)
0.1-0.25 ppm phosphate (Sera kit)

79.9 degF refugium (monitor)
78.6 refugium (pH pen)
78.5 sump (pH pen)
79.5 chiller

Because I got any ammonia reading at all on the sump, I tested directly in the display tank.

0.25-0.5 ammonia in DT (test strip)

Yikes!

Here’s my current theory. The heavy fish load is producing high levels of ammonia in the water column before it is taken up by bacteria. So the common reading is zero but a lot of ammonia is always being processed through the water column. This is irritating the LPS so they are more retracted/stagnated in growth.

A given problem with this setup from the beginning was that it was a commercial “reef ready” tank and therefore had one 1” bulkhead and one ¾” bulkhead. That was why another bulkhead was drilled through the back wall in order to safely run a siphon on the ¾” with two 1” pipes as backup. So, that means that turnover of water through the display tank is significantly reduced and the afore mentioned ammonia would be present in the DT then zero in the sump area.

So, for a couple of days, I will run the DT flow at full capacity with one 1” pipe. It will not siphon because the head pressure from the pump reduces the pump output too heavily and it is additional to the ¾" pipe. I might get a siphon by changing the stand tubes elevations so that only the 1” operates but for proof-of-principle, we will operate less optimally (noise) and safely (fail safe overflow) for a few days to see if we can get the ammonia to the live rock more quickly and have some visual improvement in corals.

 

[mvsjrs]

I am going with the Red Sea Mixed Reef guide and products (except kalk). Their guidelines are

salinity 1.024
Ca 450 ppm
Mg 1350 ppm
Alk 11.5 dKH
NO3 1-2 ppm

With these additional targets
pH 8.4
NH3 zero
NO2 zero
PO4 0.01-0.03
temp 78-80 degF (hopefully balancing chiller and heater from basement)

However, I am using the Instant Ocean Reef Crystals since the bags used for packaging are much easier for me to manage when making 75 gallons.

I put the Effective Water Volume = 70 (DT) + 120 (refugium) + 40 (inductor) +45 (sump) = 275 gallons. That makes for 47 gallons of live rock displacement.

I will get better insight into parameters as I replace my old kits & stuff. This is not the place to be using kits years past the expiration date. I am guessing PO4 is truly high (the test was) without a GFO reactor (even with massive chaeto growth). My understanding is that nitrogens limit the chaeto growth before consuming enough PO4.

 

[mvsjrs]

OMG the noise!! Pulling water straight down a drain tube is the noisiest thing known to mankind! I would rather be at the range playing with the 7.62 mm short barrel. :uzi: This has been the loudest 10 days of my aquarium life.

And the result...nothing. No change in polyp extension and no reading of ammonia above the "hum, is that zero or a little colored?" level. I do believe that I see a little color change in the test kits/strips but I am not very good at reading them.

I also pulled out and added a PhosBan reactor in the sump with a PowerClear 40 powerhead set to lowest flow and 5" of media. After three days, I see no change in the lowest reading from the 0.1-0.25 ppm phosphate (Sera kit)...but the spectrum of colors does not start at white/clear but instead a very light blue. I can only say the lightest blue seems to match which would give no more than 0.1-0.25 ppm phosphate and possibly zero. Certainly no Perry Mason moment.

 

[mvsjrs]

Summary:

Starburst Polyp Rock Indonesia - going gangbusters
Aussie Torch Coral - doing well enough that it seems to have split
Green People Eaters Polyp Rock Zoanthus - seemingly dead colony regenerating
Alveopora Coral Indonesia - no change
**ORA® Red Goniopora Coral - skeletonized but polyps still clearly present
**Ultra Hammer Coral - no change in 3 months
**Aussie Cespitularia Coral - finally died after 3 months
**Aussie Sinularia Finger Leather Coral (several sp.) - never extend polyps
**Toadstool Mushroom Leather Coral Indonesia - never extends polyps but the trunk & cap are getting thicker
Red Bubble Tip Anemone - going gangbusters
**Bubble Tip Anemone Green - hiding between back wall and back of rock formation
**Rose Bulb Anemone (Indonesia) - hiding
Mushroom Ricordea, Rhodactis Indonesia - unremarkable

**=concerning.

 

[mvsjrs]

Conversation with H. at LiveAquaria -

Possibilities:
(1) Too strong of linear flow from closed loop.
(2) Too intense lighting (especially goniopora sp.)
(3) Too much nutrient uptake in chaeto for soft corals.

(1) Too strong of linear flow from closed loop.
The CL was intended for SPS tank, but since it was long since already bought, the AmpMaster was used. In the past, I have tried restricting the flow with the ball valves in the CL but maybe I gradually wean the tank down on the CL to zero and rely only on the one MP40 (EcoTech not Maschinenpistole) and the return pump.

(2) Too intense lighting (especially goniopora sp.)
May just be the flower pot getting too much intensity. I know PAR readings should really be the guide but buying another diagnostic tool...blah. It is interesting that the toadstool is getting enough light to grow without extending its polyps. I really only think this could be because the canopy is relatively short, not because the 2 Radion X15w G4 Pro and 2 T5HO 24" retrofits are producing too much intensity. But without PAR, who knows.

(3) Too much nutrient uptake in chaeto for soft corals.
In three months under the Kessel H380, the few remaining strands of dying chaeto under an old 10K MH have grown into a full 60 gallon cube of rotating, stringy chaeto. I once have disposed of a 2½ gallon pail of chaeto just by grabbing the mass and chopping out a segment with scissors. I clearly "overfeed" from the stereotype SPS reefer but I come from a fish first background in freshwater with massive water changes (my beloved polypterus ornatipinnis "Bru'te" would eat an adult mouse or full grown mbuna daily if I let him). So, all that food is certainly creating a nutrient rich environment. If the chaeto were outcompleting the soft corals, you could certainly end up with restricted coral growth and massive chaeto. Algae in the display tank is not a good indicator for this tank because there are too many fishie mouths nipping at anything edible. Opinions on chaeto starving out soft corals?

 

[laverda]

So, the good, the bad, the ugly. My LPS overall are static/poor health"”although more static than looking like they are going to expire. They definitely don't pass the 30k foot visual test. While I have lowered faith home testing, these are what I got from what kits I had on hand. Unless otherwise noted, the tests are taken from water sourced in the inductor tank since it is the immediate outflow of the display tank.

8.4 (Hanna pH pen)
1.024/1.025 salinity (Milwaukee tester)
13.7 kH (Hanna calorimeter)
0 ammonia (test strip)
<0.25 ammonia (Mardel kit)
0 nitrite (test strip)
0 nitrate (Hagen kit #1)
0 nitrate (Hagen kit #2)
2-5 ppm nitrate (Salifert kit)
12.5 ppm nitrate (Tetra kit)
0.1-0.25 ppm phosphate (Sera kit)

79.9 degF refugium (monitor)
78.6 refugium (pH pen)
78.5 sump (pH pen)
79.5 chiller

Because I got any ammonia reading at all on the sump, I tested directly in the display tank.

0.25-0.5 ammonia in DT (test strip)

Yikes!

Here's my current theory. The heavy fish load is producing high levels of ammonia in the water column before it is taken up by bacteria. So the common reading is zero but a lot of ammonia is always being processed through the water column. This is irritating the LPS so they are more retracted/stagnated in growth.

A given problem with this setup from the beginning was that it was a commercial "œreef ready" tank and therefore had one 1" bulkhead and one ¾" bulkhead. That was why another bulkhead was drilled through the back wall in order to safely run a siphon on the ¾" with two 1" pipes as backup. So, that means that turnover of water through the display tank is significantly reduced and the afore mentioned ammonia would be present in the DT then zero in the sump area.

So, for a couple of days, I will run the DT flow at full capacity with one 1" pipe. It will not siphon because the head pressure from the pump reduces the pump output too heavily and it is additional to the ¾" pipe. I might get a siphon by changing the stand tubes elevations so that only the 1" operates but for proof-of-principle, we will operate less optimally (noise) and safely (fail safe overflow) for a few days to see if we can get the ammonia to the live rock more quickly and have some visual improvement in corals.

Assuming your test results are accurate; I see several issues. In order of importance. Ammonia should be undetectable with hobby test kits. An established tank should not have ammonia issues. Has anything died in your tank recently? Your DKH is too high. Natural sea water is much lower. Personally I aim for 8.6 which is still a little higher than NSW. Your Nitrates are to low. I would aim for 10 up to 20. You can reduce your light cycle on you refugium to raise the nitrates. I would get decent test kits, not dip strips. I recommend Salifert test kits.

 

[laverda]

I decided that the pump noise was still too high after insulating around pipe connection. So"¦

To reduce pump noise put silicone pads under the pumps and connect them with flexible hose. Silicon hose is ideal but flexible PVC is easiier and mys be enough to solve your noise problem.

 

[mvsjrs]

Thanks laverda for the feedback. :beer:

The evidence seems pretty conclusive that

(3) Too much nutrient uptake in chaeto for soft corals.

is the culprit. Whether uptake in the chaeto, live rock denitrification or water change regime; the corals respond very favorably to increases in nitrate sources. Given the original build intent, the filtration system is built for a 300-400 gallon tank but is only employing the first 92 gallon of display tank right now. Heavy stocking and heavy feeding just cannot support the corals need for nitrate while the skimmer, chaeto, live rock, water changes, etc are all working. A simple search of "can a tank have too much chaeto" will provide (lots of detail about trimming chaeto... and) numerous threads where nutrients are too low in mixed tanks. Each time I take some action to increase free nitrates, the coral polyps temporarily extend and the corals look good. An short time later, with the nitrates depleted, the corals retract and we have my described problem.

I added two new data readings for the tank:
- alk 10.3 dKH
- PO4 0.17 ppm

The lime water T/O arrangement kept the pump too close to the precipitate of the Mrs Wages. When it ran, some of the precipitate would get dumped in the tank with the already saturated T/O water. Correcting the arrangement immediately dropped alkalinity from 13.7 dKH to 10.3 dKH. I am going to further optimize the amount of Mrs Wages with the volume of the T/O container.

The Sera PO4 of 0.10-0.25 mg/l matches with the Hanna phosphate checker at 0.17 ppm. I made the mistake of buying the phosphate checker rather than the phosphorus checker so this is only a gross reading but it does tell the story... Too much phosphate in addition to too little nitrate.

I don't believe there ever was an ammonia issue other than old test kits and reading colorless and really colorless (or zero color change as really zero measured).

I have not yet decided on a course of action for addressing the PO4 and NO3 levels. I am somewhat tempted to use the 60 gallon cube (i.e.- empty half of the refugium) with a couple of lionfish. They would make a beautiful addition to the fishcave...

 

[mvsjrs]

Cleared out some chaeto. It is a 2½ gal trash can, loosely packed then packed down. It barely made an impact in the chaeto ball but I did not want to move too fast with a change. I will do it a couple more times every couple days. I like to have enough to sell some through Craigslist when someone needs it locally. Too much hassle to ship but it's good for the struggling hobbyist occasionally.

 

[mvsjrs]

So, when I moved the pumps to make more space and reduce the noise in the Fish Cave, I decided to clean the pumps. The TurboSea 1740P (a.k.a BlueLine 70HD, PanWorld 200PS) had the following in the impeller but just kept whirling along.

Then, since the skimmer had stopped collecting any skimmate for several days, I cleaned the VARIOS-6 intake pump and the VARIOS-6 air pump impeller on the Reef Octopus skimmer. The following was hidden on the intake pump's intake orifice inside the debris screen and some partially sucked into the impeller.

The impeller for the air pump looked like this and included a little debris:

That's a good statement on preventative maintenance being valuable in addition to solving an observed problem. The skimmate cup lid also got a cleaning although the neck was nice and clean because of the automated neck cleaner...good argument for its effectiveness:

 

[mvsjrs]

So, back to solving my ULNS problem, somewhere I never thought I would be, breaking out my freshwater planting chemicals, I located KNO3 and mixed a solution.

Effective Water Volume = 70 (DT) + 120 (refugium) + 40 (inductor) +45 (sump) = 275 gallons.

http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/calculator.htm

I mixed up a solution as follows using their great colculator:

I chose a 100 gallon value as the equivalent size of the actually occupied space. At 20 ml dosing per day, I can increase to 40 and 60 ml with my dosing cup to move up to an equivalent 300 gallon EWV.

 

[mvsjrs]

Broke down and added a powerhead in the tank. Two months ago I turned of the basement filtration in order to feed. Well, that left no water circulation and without adequate oxygenation from water movement, I lost several of the more active fish.

I also added a beeping alarm that activates when the power is not being supplied to the DT pump circuit. Further, the CL pump was put on a different circuit loop so that it would continue to run during feeding when the DT pump is off. A battery on the powerhead further protects against the same situation if the GFCI from trips. Now, I feel very confident that a repeat with not occur.

 

[mvsjrs]

Financial update: $755 of crap sold or returned since starting the project. The other side of the ledger is not balanced! Gotta love this hobby...

 

[mvsjrs]

There has been real progress with increasing nitrates. Dosing 40 ml nitrate each morning directly (for maximum effect) to the display tank. The chaeto lighting has been reduced by 3 hours. About half the chaeto has been removed (even sold some!). The fish are about as fat as they can get from all the feeding. But, still no measurable nitrates in the sump and the skimmer production remains reduced.

The other half of the refugium (so essentially a second 60 gallon cube) has been modified to prevent escapees so the gymnothorax tile will have his own special spot after he reaches maturity and full saltwater rather than brackish. I will leave the mollies behind so I don't end up with an explosion of mollies in my reef display tank"”those suckers are resilient!

The softies are still hampered by the swings in nitrate availability but they are opening and extending their polyps. The flower pot has polyps re-emerging from the bleached out region. I also lowered it from its higher perch because the shaded parts of its skeleton were doing better than the unshaded parts.

 

[mvsjrs]

So, all these low nitrate problems have me thinking. If turnover of the DT to the sump is fairly slow (which it is; and I don't mean water circulation which is very high) and I start controlled, steady nitrate dosing via a doser into the DT, could the sump and fuge continue to create an ULNS outside the DT? If so, could my original concept of a dual DT system with one DT targeting softies and one DT targeting SPS possibly be implementable? Now, with a tightening budget and current mediocre coral husbandry experience, I am not burning to delve into a second DT and into SPS specifically. I can always test for nitrate and phosphate but two established, functioning display tanks would really be necessary to prove out the concept.