40 watt LED's overloading EB8?

[Spar]

I just sent in my EB8 for repair and got it back with a note saying:
"Do NOT overload EB8 outlets. Maximum of 5 Amps on any one outlet. Outlets #2, #3, and #6 all blown - will not be fixed for free again."

I had explained to Curt in email before sending it in that this particular EB8 is solely used across 2 200 watt LED fixtures, with no more than 80 watts (2 40 watt drivers / LED sets) on any single outlet. When looking at the total amp usage it never in total exceeded 3.8 amps.

That said, how am I experiencing overloading on the EB8? I don't want to plug it back in until I get this figured out. I asked Curt via email and he said "I can believe one outlet just breaking, however If more than one outlet is not working something is definitely drawing too much current."

Thoughts?

 

[swearint]

I had a ballast short out and damage one of the EB8 outlets, but that is a pretty obvious falure. I know that flourescent ballasts have a lower power factor such that more current is used than expected based on the wattage. I am not sure about LED drivers. You could buy/borrow a Kill-a-Watt meter and measure the actual current when plugged straight into the wall outlet and see if anything unusual is occurring with the fixture.

Todd

 

[phuzzykins]

I just sent in my EB8 for repair and got it back with a note saying:
"Do NOT overload EB8 outlets. Maximum of 5 Amps on any one outlet. Outlets #2, #3, and #6 all blown - will not be fixed for free again."

I had explained to Curt in email before sending it in that this particular EB8 is solely used across 2 200 watt LED fixtures, with no more than 80 watts (2 40 watt drivers / LED sets) on any single outlet. When looking at the total amp usage it never in total exceeded 3.8 amps.

That said, how am I experiencing overloading on the EB8? I don't want to plug it back in until I get this figured out. I asked Curt via email and he said "I can believe one outlet just breaking, however If more than one outlet is not working something is definitely drawing too much current."

Thoughts?

I've had 3 outlets fail on a single DC8, and nothing was overloaded there either.

 

[Spar]

I will try a kill-a-watt, been meaning to pick one up anyway.

I think it is just a bad EB8 personally, there is no way the LED's were at fault.

Saying "will not be fixed for free again" was a bit disrespectful IMO, especially in the context of associated emails. I have 5 EB8's (soon to be 7) on my system and this is the only one that had issues, so hopefully with the recent fixes I won't have to bother with sending it in again.

 

[phuzzykins]

I will try a kill-a-watt, been meaning to pick one up anyway.

I think it is just a bad EB8 personally, there is no way the LED's were at fault.

Saying "will not be fixed for free again" was a bit disrespectful IMO, especially in the context of associated emails. I have 5 EB8's (soon to be 7) on my system and this is the only one that had issues, so hopefully with the recent fixes I won't have to bother with sending it in again.

A device that consumes 1 amp in a steady state may consume significantly more than that when it's initially powered up, due to something called inrush current. It's possible that your EB8 was damaged by a high inrush current even though your LEDs are only rated 40w.

IMO, it's up to Neptune and other manufacturers to design for that; there's no reasonable way for a hobbyist to control the inrush current consumed by a device.

I agree that the response you got was a bit harsh.

 

[kayl]

A device that consumes 1 amp in a steady state may consume significantly more than that when it's initially powered up, due to something called inrush current. It's possible that your EB8 was damaged by a high inrush current even though your LEDs are only rated 40w.

IMO, it's up to Neptune and other manufacturers to design for that; there's no reasonable way for a hobbyist to control the inrush current consumed by a device.

I agree that the response you got was a bit harsh.

That's what I was thinking about -

I am building a DIY fixture and am a bit concerned about inrush current as well.

 

[phuzzykins]

That's what I was thinking about -

I am building a DIY fixture and am a bit concerned about inrush current as well.

Depending on how DIY you're getting, you can incorporate current limiting devices (resistors or thermistors) into your power supply design.

Meanwell drivers have a notoriously high inrush current. You can either build or buy inrush protectors if you're using meanwells and are concerned.

 

[Spar]

Will kill-a-watts show you the inrush current? Or will it be too quick to notice?


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[phuzzykins]

Will kill-a-watts show you the inrush current? Or will it be too quick to notice?


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You won't be able to measure it using a kill-a-watt or a multimeter.

Many years ago, I worked in a lab doing CE and UL compliance testing, and we had specialized power analyzers for this sort of thing. I don't think anything comparable is available to hobbyists.

 

[RussM]

Too quick to notice. A while back, I tried checking inrush by my old IC660 ballasts (which are major offenders in this regard) - didn't see it on the KAW.

 

[michael_in_nc]

You won't be able to measure it using a kill-a-watt or a multimeter.

Many years ago, I worked in a lab doing CE and UL compliance testing, and we had specialized power analyzers for this sort of thing. I don't think anything comparable is available to hobbyists.

Agreed, the inrush transient current would be too quick to measure with equipment most people have access to. I think on some of the meanwell's I've seen inrush as high as 75A. I think they spec it on some of their datasheets if I remember correctly.

 

[kayl]

Does anyone know how bad the inrush is on the Thomas Research Products drivers?

 

[Spar]

There are other posts asking the same right now, but is there an option available to bypass the inrush current? Phuzzy mentioned above that in a DIY situation "you can incorporate current limiting devices (resistors or thermistors) into your power supply design", but is this something I can put inline with a power plug cord coming off the drivers?

 

[phuzzykins]

There are other posts asking the same right now, but is there an option available to bypass the inrush current? Phuzzy mentioned above that in a DIY situation "you can incorporate current limiting devices (resistors or thermistors) into your power supply design", but is this something I can put inline with a power plug cord coming off the drivers?

There are some off the shelf products made for home audio, but they're a bit pricey.

Something like this is plug and play:
http://cgi.ebay.com/LINEAR-AMPLIFIER-SOFT-START-120-Volt-Basic-Model-/270717466234

I'm not sure if they play nicely with the meanwell drivers or not.

 

[phuzzykins]

Does anyone know how bad the inrush is on the Thomas Research Products drivers?

If you have a specific model number, I can look it up... it looks pretty bad though. As much as 10x to 200x nominal operating current on the data sheets I just looked at.

 

[michael_in_nc]

There are other posts asking the same right now, but is there an option available to bypass the inrush current? Phuzzy mentioned above that in a DIY situation "you can incorporate current limiting devices (resistors or thermistors) into your power supply design", but is this something I can put inline with a power plug cord coming off the drivers?

I believe you can simply add a current inrush limiting circuit to the input of the power supply (between EB8 outlet and power plug of the meanwell). Typically, I think these are really just negative temperature coefficient resistors (NTC thermistor). You can google that and probably find them for whatever power rating you need. These are much cheaper than the fully designed outlet which is probably just one of these in a nice case. Basically, the thermistor is just a resistor that varies in resistance value a lot over temperature, so at startup it's cool and has a high resistance (limits current), then as it heats up from the small current flowing through it, the resistance drops to allow full power to be applied.

 

[schwaggs]

A little off topic but do you have good air circulation around the EB8? If the Triac's overheat, they would fail similar to an overload. 3.8 Amps doesn't sound like a lot and even with a temporary inrush, it seems had to beleive that you would overload an outlet with 80W worth of LEDs.

 

[Spar]

I have been thinking about putting a fan up there, but ventilation does occur from a ceiling vent sucking air 24/7 out of the room. It may get a little more toasty on the far other end of the room though. But LED's run so cool so hadn't thought that to be a possibility.

 

[richierich2000]

why not get a Socket Expansion that is what I use for my 400w ballast. that way it can't hurt your dc8 or eb8

 

[Spar]

Not a bad idea. I have 20 drivers though. With the socket expansions do you get independent control off each or is it still based on the plug into the EB8? Or do the socket expansions plug in via USB?


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