~450G Display (~1000G system) documentary starting

Ya hot and humid would pretty much describe about 9 months out of the year year here. Cool and humid the other 3 so an HRV might not be the best option. The problem I'm running into is I can think of no good option. I'm thinking a chiller will be essential to limit evaporation. I may run a fan with a vent to the outside with a humidistat on it that will help some. Even though it is humid here it's less humid outside then in the fish room!

I may have to do a little design work to get the controllers and stuff in a lower humidity envrionment.

A dehumidifier is one option but the problem is they add a lot of heat which contributes to the problem.

I may call my friendly HVAC guy here and just run it by him to see what he thinks.

Marc when you come up with something let me know:p
 
Oh the beauty of living in Colorado low humidity all year round. My 600g+ system has been set up for several weeks and not even a trace of condensation on the windows plus my house is getting to a relativly nice level of humidity in other words its not dry a as bone anymore.
 
scchase said:
Oh the beauty of living in Colorado low humidity all year round.
Click to expand...

Ya and if it averaged about 20 degrees warmer it would be great! :D Growing up in Texas I can't stand the cold!

I think I will probably run some sort of fan on a humistat but also use some solution that involves plastic or waterproof paint in the room. I'll have to think on this one some more.
 
I am following this thread with interest as I will be building a basement equipment room (in the humid Carolinas). Winter (3 months) would not be a problem as I have to run a humidifier on my central air just to keep the RH above 20%. Summer it a different problem as you will have.
I guess in the summer you could put a glass cover over the main tank thus forcing the water loss to the equipment room. What about a hood of some sort over the sump with a small fan that pumps the humid air outside the house. Sure you would have to cool the make up air but you could do this in the confines of the equipment room if it's buttoned up tight.
By drawing the humid air directly off the exposed surface of the sump you could reduce the amount of air that is needed as opposed to venting the whole room. This method works for fumes in an industrial environment (i.e. contain the problem at its source instead of letting the problem pollute the larger environment giving you a larger problem).
I could image a three sided enclosure around the sump/fuge with maybe a hinged door on the front that when closed would have a small gap to allow make up air to enter the hood and when open allows for maintenance.
Supplement this with a small dehumidifier to take care of the smaller rise in humidity in the room and the problem is reduced to a manageable level.
Any thoughts?
 
I follow a lot of these big tank threads as I want to have a 500g+ system someday in my next house. I constantly see this humidity issue come up and the answer seems to be different each time.

I have ZERO experience in AC and heating issues, so excuse the newbie question, but couldn't you just install an exhaust fan hooked up to a humidistat to push the air out of the tank room and make sure the air couldn't "backtrack" when the fan turns off? That way it wouldn't matter if the air outside was more humid or hot, you are pushing your air out. You could then make some vents, or maybe another fan to pull in less humid air from another portion of the house to replace the air going outside?

Brian
 
If you button up the tanks to trap the humidity, you also prevent oxygen exchange in the water, which our animals need.

Using a vent fan to suck out humid air will autmatically draw in fresh air from the rest of the house from any openings available, as long as the room isn't sealed tight.
 
Not owning a large tank, but having a construction background in the commercial field, I may be able to help with the room construction.

I would use 4mil poly (vapor barrier) over some r11 insulation. On top of the 4milpoly, use FRP panels. These types of panels will come in 4x8 or even 4x10 sheets. They are moisture resistant and will be very easy to wipe off any salt spray or whatever may hit it. Between these sheets you can use some type of bead to seal that slot. There are several different types to choose depending on your liking.

I would also use some type of air exchanger within this room if not also within the basement. Humidity will reek havoc on everything in your home. Solve the issue now before it is too late. I do not know of any specific type or brands, but we did a remodel in an office building that had a 500g tank that did not have the proper moisture relieving items needed. We had to gut the entire space and start over. It was 12,400 sq ft also if that puts this in perspective.

Hope that helps,

Todd
 
Thanks for the input Todd. I think that is how I will go. It will be pretty pricey (the FRP) but the peace of mind will be worth it! I will also most likely use an exhaust type fan hooked to a humidistat.

Time to start researching which one!
 
You're Welcome. If you were closer, I could get the panels for you. Good luck with this. Keep us informed.

Todd
 
Ok I got a little farther today.

I started actually designing how the sumps will flow into each other etc. The first design I came up with allows me to really easily control different rates of flow, disconnect one section, etc. So it is super super flexible.

Slide1.JPG


They are on casters so I can move them around if I need. The drains will be ~60" high so that should be adequate to gravity feed the tallest sump. The problem I came up with here is the skimmer placement. I would have to build a really tall skimmer stand to get it even with the first sump. And with the skimmer itself being ~60 inches tall it would be almost to the ceiling. I would have to build some steps to get up there, etc. Major pain.

So I rethought and went much simpler. This takes away most of my flow control (even though I could build bypass loops around the refugium) but makes it much easier from the skimmer standpoint. I could still easily disconnect with unions and either run tubing or put a new sump in if I ever have a problem it just won't be quite as versatile. Do you see any potential issues with it?

Slide1b.JPG


I think I will end up going with something like this. The simplicity it brings is worth the control sacrifice I think.

Also the return sump is off the picture and the drains will have a bypass to there for sure so if nothing else I can take these three sumps totally out of the loop and still run the system with just the return sump if necessary. It's also about 6" lower then the other sumps so when the return pump is turned off all the excess will drain into the return section. Maybe I should make them all level so if the water goes above the bulkheads (when the return pump turns off. I would have to overflow a lot more before a flood happens? Thoughts?

The other issue I'm contemplating is pipe size. I will have 3 1.5" drains on the tank. The run from the tank to the sumps will be ~20ft with a roughly 2ft drop. I'm thinking of consolidating the 3 drains into one 2 inch pipe to run the 20ft and have the 2" pipe drain into the skimmer sump. I'm only going to use an Iwaki 55 for the return pump so only ~1500GPH. Would it be significantly better just to go ahead and run three seperate 1.5" down the wall and have all three dump?

The other issue is from sump to sump. If I choose option B should I just go ahead and have 3 1.5" bulkheads on each side so I don't have to worry about bottlenecking or will 2 be sufficient?

Off to research fans and FRP
 
On the topoff front I am looking at stacking an RO Sump on top of a saltwater holding sump.

Here is a quick and dirty picture.

topoff.JPG


The cycling topoff referred to is stolen from weatherson's TOTM this month!

ro_anticycle_diagram.jpg


I thought it was an awesome idea so your RODI isn't constantly cycling on and off. Now I have to look at solenoids and how I can make a triple redundant one. Suggestions as always are appreciated.
 
Wow no comments? It's not like you guys to be unopinionated!

Anyway I think I have found a good toppoff solution for fairly cheap. I already have two of the double switches from here.

http://www.autotopoff.com/products/S/index.htm

I think I'll add 2 solinoids and have it where both float switches must be on for anything to happen. That way if one solinoid fails I'm safe and either both solinoids or all 4 float switches would have to fail at the same time in order for the whole thing to fail.

In fact I guess I'll need 4 solinoids and 2 more of the double float switches because I'l need one hooked up to the RODI input and one on the drain to return sump from the RODI resevoir. So not as cheap as I thought but very fail resistant!

Now I have to start designing the "chamber" so it won't cycle on and off all the time.
 
melev said:
If you button up the tanks to trap the humidity, you also prevent oxygen exchange in the water, which our animals need.
Click to expand...

I agree Marc but wouldn't the oxygen exchange happen in the sump which would be completely open? If you had a large enough surface area with plenty of water motion (i.e. turbulence) this should provide oxygenation.
 
That would be possible, but then again a large open surface area adds to the humidity of the room. And typically you don't want a lot of surface turbulence in your sump due to noise, microbubbles and other issues.

Keith, I had a link sent to me in a PM that might help you with the humidity situation. I'll forward it to you.

On the sumps, I like Option B myself.
 
Ok made a huge order from Savko today for all the bulkheads and flexible PVC and unions, etc. I also picked up the wood to start building the rolling stands for the sumps. I'll actually start the build tommorow.

I also ordered 3 lumenmax reflectors today so I need 3 ballasts, sockets and 5 lamps and I'll be set in the lighting department.

I'm going to order ~250 of live rock to be delivered the week before christmas. I have to get the sumps connected and going and the skimmer tested and going by then!
 
Keith,
I am glad to hear you are back in the reef circuit again! I cannot wait to see the progression of this tank, if it is anywhere near as good as your previous tanks it will be amazing! I agree with Marc in regards to your sump designs, the second one just seems easier to move and access in the event something goes wrong. The way I see it you could easily transfer contents and wheel in a new contain, with no sweat!
 
Keith, if you followed my thread last week, we had a decent discussion about humidity. Armed with that knowledge I went to Home Depot to see what kind of vent fans they had. You basically want to know how many CFM and Sones you want. The lower the number of sones, the quieter it is. There was a nice $20 vent fan that would have woke the dead, and the one I liked was $118 of course. I had an A/C guy here last week, and he told me I needed 50CFM in my fish room. I'm going to go with 100CFM because I plan to pipe that moist air out some PVC and out of my home and figure the additional resistance will reduce the rating the mfg gave it.

I may post the model # of the one I like, and then wait for you to find me a better deal. You always score in that department. :D
 
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