500 gallon with ICK

[thuddly]

A few questions:

1. Hypo: If I slowly lower the salinity to 1009 in 7 days - would the treatment not be as effective?

2. Hypo: How fast does the salinity have to be lowered - does it matter?

3. Copper: Can I use copper on my main display with all of the fish in it? I understand that it will leech into the live rock and kill the biological filter.

4. Copper: Will a bio filter ever be possible in the main display? How about after several water changes and running of carbon? Lets assume I remove all live rock during the copper treatment process. I am sure it would be possible but I would just like to make sure. It is my understanding that our tanks already have a small amount of copper in them.

5. I understand that copper will wipe out the bio filter. Does hypo wipe out the bio filter as well?

6. Where can I purchase the copper additive?

7. If I remove the live rock and treat the tank with copper will the acrylic walls absorb the copper. Should I be concerned?

I am leaning towards the copper treatment and removing my live rock. I would then do water changes and run carbon before placing the live rock back into the display.

 

[disaster999]

would removing all the fish to a quarantine tank be an option? as far as i know, if there is no fish in the tank, the ich will have no host to attach on when they hatch and will eventually die.

 

[thuddly]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13767217#post13767217 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by disaster999
would removing all the fish to a quarantine tank be an option? as far as i know, if there is no fish in the tank, the ich will have no host to attach on when they hatch and will eventually die.

This is true however I would rather not remove the fish from the display as it would only stress them out and put them at risk.

The main display is bare bottom (no substrate) which is why I am thinking about just removing the rock.

Please, anyone - provide answers to the questions above. Thanks in advance.

 

[brian2kgt]

Hypo will most likely kill the live rock. I remember reading a thread where a guy did this and it ended up killing all his fish and corals with a huge ammonia spike.

If the fish can't come out, personally, I would pull the LR out, put it in some tubs with powerheads/heaters and then do Hypo on the main tank.

 

[thuddly]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13767839#post13767839 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by brian2kgt
Hypo will most likely kill the live rock. I remember reading a thread where a guy did this and it ended up killing all his fish and corals with a huge ammonia spike.

If the fish can't come out, personally, I would pull the LR out, put it in some tubs with powerheads/heaters and then do Hypo on the main tank.

Thank you for that. That is exactly what i plan to do - remove the rock.

The last question that I have is:

Will hypo be as effective if it is done slowly or more quickly? Does it matter?

 

[brian2kgt]

Hypo is most effective with a rapid change. We are literally "exploding" the ich organisms by a fast change in osmotic pressure.

Remove all live rock, corals, crabs, snails, etc before you start. It is recommended to drop the salinity to 14 ppt(1.009 specific gravity) over a course of 48 hours. Keep an eye on PH as it tends to drop as the water becomes less saline.

It is recommended to keep the aquarium at this salinity for at least 3 weeks. When it is time to raise the salinity back up, do it slowly. Try to limit the increase to no more than .002 points per day. The fish can tolerate a fast drop but not a fast rise.

Here are a two good articles on ich to check out...
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.php

 

[thuddly]

"hypo is most effective with a rapid change."

Again - If the salinity is lowered over a period of 7 days or more would hypo not work at all?

 

[REEF-n-Chicago]

It will work much better if dropped quicker. Is there a reason you cannot drop the salinity quickly?
I believe it will still work just not as well and may take longer to cure.

Good Luck!

 

[paulamrein]

Remove the rock slowly, parts at a time, most of your bio is on the rock so, if it is removed all at once, you'll get a spike.

 

[e55MD]

thuddly,

I recently had the same issue in my 400 gallon display. I ended up purchasing a used 240 gallon tank and used it as a hospital tank for cupramine treatment. In order to catch all my fish, I had to remove 525lbs of live rock and drain the entire tank- a huge undertaking. I then fallowed my display for 2 months. My fish have been back in the display for about a month now and I have recently started to see a few spots on some of my fish again- nothing like the raging outbreak I had before. I hope it does not get worse with time. Many people have low grade infestations that the fish fight off on their own. I started believing those poeple who said it is possible to have an "ich-free" display but my experience still seems to support those that say ich is present in every tank. I have 2 80W UV sterilizers running at all times on my tank.
Feed with garlic and Selcon, maintain pristine water quality and hopefully things will get better for you. My experience was a huge inconvenience and expense and in the end, it may not have been worth the effort.

Good luck with whatever do decide to do.

 

[swegyptian]

e55MD- I am worried about just that happening too, all that work for nothing. Did you also use hypo in the 240?

 

[kevin2000]

My 02

If you have a barebottom tank with Live rock .. just remove the live rock and use either hyposalinity or copper - no big deal.

Some argue that you need to lower salinity slowly .. but there are many who lower it pretty quickly without a problem - fish can tolerate reductions in salinity better than increases. When I QT fish I lower the saliity over a few days and take about a week to increase it.

If you go the copper route then you might consider using Cupramine copper .. tends to be less harsh on the fish but make sure you are using a test kit which can accurately read Cupramine .. many don't (Seachem, Salifert and Redsea do).

Assuming your LR is your primary bio filter ... be prepared to do water changes to maintain water quality.

Hypo might be easier to administer ... also hypo water has 2/3rd less salt than std so you can just dilute your regular replacement water with RO - pretty easy.

 

[erbio]

good luck!

 

[thuddly]

I decided to do hypo and currently have the salinity at 1.015. One more change should do it. Wish me luck.

I have read every article there is to read on the net regarding whitespot/ich.

e55MD - Were you testing it daily? If the level of copper is too low it wont do anything, if the level is too high it could kill your fish.

copper also increases the risk of infection. In fact most brands recommend doing anti bacterial after treatment which is why I chose to do hypo.

Then there is the issue of copper leeching into your tank walls, etc.

I took all of this into consideration when deciding what to do. I bought cupramine and a copper test kit anyway. My final decision was hypo.

I am just eager to get rid of the ich so that I can raise the salinity and get bak to enjoying my tank.

No fish have died due to ich or the lowering of the salinity and hopefully it remains that way.

Not all fish have ich. Only one yellow tang, my raccoon butterfly fish and my blue hippo (big surprise) do.

 

[e55MD]

swegyptian- I used Cupramine in my 240 gallon hospital tank

thuddly - I tested twice a day when I was using Cupramine. The only test kit that works well and is accurate is the one manufactured by Seachem.

If I ever have a bad ich infestation again, I would take my anemone, urchins and shrimp out of my DT and I would hypo the entire tank with the LR in it.