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600 gal display/900+ gal build thread in the Chicago 'burbs.
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
Pod generation. I was skimming for two weeks. IF I turn the skimmer on, its so strong it sucks ALL the pods, phyto, damn near everything out of the water. Thats not to say I won't ever skim again, I'm just trying to maximize the micro-fauna atm while the system is still fish-less. I won't have a chance to do it later.
*IF* the carbon works and removes all the odor, I'm also 95% sure I'm going to build a large spray bar (well 4 spray bars in my case) Agal scrubber and run it in place of the skimmer. Before people get all weirded out, I'm not sure its going to work. However the more reading I do, the more I'm convinced a healthy tanks needs ALOT of food in the water, 100% of the time for healthy coral.
Here is the problem. My skimmer is so efficient it sucks damn near 100% of all the organic solids out of the water as it passes through the sump. The coral eat that stuff. So I have to feed with the skimmer off, let the coral eat, then suck all that good food out when the skimmer turns back on. This leads to a cycle of over feeding, skimming, ect. I'd like to keep that food in the system all the time. I'd also like to keep zooplankton in the system, but I can't with a skimmer, or at least not in a healthy natural quantity.
But if you do that you have nasty nutrient build. Enter the algal scrubber. It removes inorganic waste (N&P) but not the organic food. The organic food is good... you want that in the system. Its the inorganic stuff that causes algae outbreaks, saturates your rocks, fouls up the sandbed, ect.
I've also noticed a very alarming trend in Tank of the Months. All of them run super efficient skimmers, with very clean water. After about 3-4 years damn near everyone has a systemic tank crash as far as their corals go. I'm starting to believe its because the system is unbalanced and the corals simply don't have enough to eat. IF you look at the weight of food per liter of water in a natural reef compared to a highly skimmed system, its absurd how much more food a reef has.
So I'm going to try a massive scrubber. I'm lucky that I have the room to try it. If it works, great. If not, the skimmer goes back into operation
*IF* the carbon works and removes all the odor, I'm also 95% sure I'm going to build a large spray bar (well 4 spray bars in my case) Agal scrubber and run it in place of the skimmer. Before people get all weirded out, I'm not sure its going to work. However the more reading I do, the more I'm convinced a healthy tanks needs ALOT of food in the water, 100% of the time for healthy coral.
Here is the problem. My skimmer is so efficient it sucks damn near 100% of all the organic solids out of the water as it passes through the sump. The coral eat that stuff. So I have to feed with the skimmer off, let the coral eat, then suck all that good food out when the skimmer turns back on. This leads to a cycle of over feeding, skimming, ect. I'd like to keep that food in the system all the time. I'd also like to keep zooplankton in the system, but I can't with a skimmer, or at least not in a healthy natural quantity.
But if you do that you have nasty nutrient build. Enter the algal scrubber. It removes inorganic waste (N&P) but not the organic food. The organic food is good... you want that in the system. Its the inorganic stuff that causes algae outbreaks, saturates your rocks, fouls up the sandbed, ect.
I've also noticed a very alarming trend in Tank of the Months. All of them run super efficient skimmers, with very clean water. After about 3-4 years damn near everyone has a systemic tank crash as far as their corals go. I'm starting to believe its because the system is unbalanced and the corals simply don't have enough to eat. IF you look at the weight of food per liter of water in a natural reef compared to a highly skimmed system, its absurd how much more food a reef has.
So I'm going to try a massive scrubber. I'm lucky that I have the room to try it. If it works, great. If not, the skimmer goes back into operation
screwsloose
New member
are there any designs for the scrubber you have in mind? i would like to read up on this as well. i have a similar size set up as you that i am putting together now. the tank is being built as we speak 130x36x34 with 200 gl sump. i am looking for options and ideas before i set mine in stone.
Mr. Brooks
MASVC Member
I'm sure you've seen Reefski's 700 gallon tank: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1154644&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
I'd ask him if he was happy with his turf scrubber. He might be able to give you some pointers. Looks like he put a lot of work into his.
I think once your bioload increases you'll be really happy with your skimmer. It's overkill now but it'll probably be perfect once you have a bunch of livestock in your tank. There should be plenty of nutrients leftover.
I'd ask him if he was happy with his turf scrubber. He might be able to give you some pointers. Looks like he put a lot of work into his.
I think once your bioload increases you'll be really happy with your skimmer. It's overkill now but it'll probably be perfect once you have a bunch of livestock in your tank. There should be plenty of nutrients leftover.
I've followed Reefski's build and his scrubber build. The one I'm planning is a lot like his, but not "square" like his. His is 4 sided with a high wattage grow light dropped down in the middle so all 4 "inside" sides get light.
Mine is going to be in my sump where there are 4 parallel spraybars each the width of the sump. In the 3 voids will be grow lights. That will completely illuminate the 2 inside screens and one side each of the outside screens. The screens will be 20-22 inches long, 18 inches tall. That should give me 1400-1500 sq inches of growing room.
Another interesting thing is the scrubber is supposed to do an excellent job of removing microbubbles which is another great plus
Mine is going to be in my sump where there are 4 parallel spraybars each the width of the sump. In the 3 voids will be grow lights. That will completely illuminate the 2 inside screens and one side each of the outside screens. The screens will be 20-22 inches long, 18 inches tall. That should give me 1400-1500 sq inches of growing room.
Another interesting thing is the scrubber is supposed to do an excellent job of removing microbubbles which is another great plus
Oh as far as lots of nutrients left over, I don't know. I dumped a half of a bottle!!!! of phyto in and watch that thing completely suck it ALL out in 8 hours. I mean every last drop. How do I know> One from the visual mess of the cup, and two from watching the orp reading. When the phyto went in, orp crashed, then it climbed steadily all the way back to the initial value in 8 hours as the skimmer sucked everything out.
Its scary how efficient it is. Half a bottle of phyto should have completely overwhelmed the skimmer and the tank. Thats like 200 fish worth of waste.
Its scary how efficient it is. Half a bottle of phyto should have completely overwhelmed the skimmer and the tank. Thats like 200 fish worth of waste.
Mr. Brooks
MASVC Member
If it can pull out that much food in 8 hours that just means you can feed a ton every day, keeping everything super happy and fat, with all the leftovers being sucked up before it has a chance to rot and pollute the tank. I'd be stoked with that kind of performance.
Dante_JoseCuerv
New member
Interesting idea, I know pods generally tend to be active at night, they seem nocturnal. Why not skim during the day and turn it off at night?
Just so everyone knows, Victor at ATB just gave me a call after reading my thread. I didn't call him, gripe, nothing. He was all worried I was unhappy with the skimmer. I was highly impressed he took the initiative to call.
Now THAT'S customer service. I explained to him I'm not unhappy at all. It's just that with a light bioload my XL is working TOO good. As Wippjas said I might run the skimmer on a timer, I'm not sure.
As of right now I just turned it back on. I couldn't take the smell any longer. You can't believe, in 5 minutes the nastiness that's coming out of it.
Oh also Victor, right now the smell is NOT because of the skimmer, its because I was not running it. However, When its cranking I do need to have that carbon loop on it because then it starts to generate all kinds of stink also
Now THAT'S customer service. I explained to him I'm not unhappy at all. It's just that with a light bioload my XL is working TOO good. As Wippjas said I might run the skimmer on a timer, I'm not sure.
As of right now I just turned it back on. I couldn't take the smell any longer. You can't believe, in 5 minutes the nastiness that's coming out of it.
Oh also Victor, right now the smell is NOT because of the skimmer, its because I was not running it. However, When its cranking I do need to have that carbon loop on it because then it starts to generate all kinds of stink also
erics3000
Active member
I thought about running my skimmer at night. i also agree about striping the water a whole lot but know I have a lot of nitrates from all my fish. I also wanted to run it at night to keep the ph up with the extra O2. I think I am going to try a nitrate reactor . I look for ward to see your progress with the scrubber.
Well, scrubber is on hold now. Its the smell issue. I don't want to take the time to build it and the house smells horrible 
So right now I'm going to continue with all the little projects I have left to do (automating the floats, ect) then I'll revisit the scrubber at a little later date.
So right now I'm going to continue with all the little projects I have left to do (automating the floats, ect) then I'll revisit the scrubber at a little later date.
Bax
Premium Member
With the skimmer performing that way, an algal scrubber may be overkill anyway. reefskis mentioned in his thread that he is hopping to go skimmerless at some point, I think he;s running a quad beckett now, so he's got that huge scrubber on his big system. I'd lean more toward a RSDB, and allowing all that rock to mature in a system like yours. You'll have plenty 'o pods in time! That awesome , very cool, cone skimmer you have seems like it can shoulder a fairly large fish load .... and you can allways get another and it'd be a lot less maintenance than the scrubber.
JagerEinheit
New member
I know others have mentioned this, but soap and water isnt the only way to hunt down and fix or find a possible air leak in your plumbing, jsut get some petroleum jelly and start at one end of your plumbing coating a joint and watching, if the bubbles die down at all, you have a leak and you wipe off and reapply glue to the seam. even in an extensive plumbing system its not a big job, and it may save you two weeks of headache. also the stuff is easier to deal with then soapy water getting everywhere.
otherwise the tank looks great and glad to see you having such a polar opposite problem from some reefers whose skimmers are too small
.
otherwise the tank looks great and glad to see you having such a polar opposite problem from some reefers whose skimmers are too small
.
Electrobes
Montipora type guy
One of the benefits of using a skimmer, especially his powerful one is that it's putting air into his large system, which my guess being that it gets depleted pretty quickly... though not sure as I've only kept much smaller tanks. Heh.. kinda ironic as I run skimmerless 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14253214#post14253214 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JagerEinheit
I know others have mentioned this, but soap and water isnt the only way to hunt down and fix or find a possible air leak in your plumbing, jsut get some petroleum jelly and start at one end of your plumbing coating a joint and watching, if the bubbles die down at all, you have a leak and you wipe off and reapply glue to the seam. even in an extensive plumbing system its not a big job, and it may save you two weeks of headache. also the stuff is easier to deal with then soapy water getting everywhere.
otherwise the tank looks great and glad to see you having such a polar opposite problem from some reefers whose skimmers are too small
.
You learn something new every day. I had never heard of that. That is the best tip I've heard so far. I'm going to give that a try this weekend or next.
Thanks!
(This is why RC rocks)
JagerEinheit
New member
something else you may consider is marking the pipe joints as you go that have passed leak testing. if you get pulled away, or set it aside you have easy ways to see where you have been and what is left.
petroleum jelly is also worthwhile to smear on any of your pumps main housing seals, if they have any pinhole leaks that may also be a minor culprit.
last place while you are at the pumps, is disconnect them and undo their housings, check the o rings lube them with some jelly and reassemble them. any kinks or defects, even flashing(the added bits of material from the manufacturing process) may be creating an issue. if you are on the hunt might as well go all out, and lubing your parts makes future maintenance so much easier.
any jelly you get in any intank or water contact areas just wipe down, its an oil so its easily picked up by your skimmer and yanked out.
glad I could help even if its only for future use.
petroleum jelly is also worthwhile to smear on any of your pumps main housing seals, if they have any pinhole leaks that may also be a minor culprit.
last place while you are at the pumps, is disconnect them and undo their housings, check the o rings lube them with some jelly and reassemble them. any kinks or defects, even flashing(the added bits of material from the manufacturing process) may be creating an issue. if you are on the hunt might as well go all out, and lubing your parts makes future maintenance so much easier.
any jelly you get in any intank or water contact areas just wipe down, its an oil so its easily picked up by your skimmer and yanked out.
glad I could help even if its only for future use.
