7 Month Wild Algae Battle

[barjam]

Randy wrote an article about phosphates fairly recently that talks about phosphates from source water. He did the math and basically the numbers are inconsequential compared to food inputs.

 

[tylersarah]

I would like to add that although I have a phosphate problem, my nitrates are exceptional, 1 ppm with Salifert.

 

[tylersarah]

Randy wrote an article about phosphates fairly recently that talks about phosphates from source water. He did the math and basically the numbers are inconsequential compared to food inputs.

Found the article, thank you.
Lets talk about food then. I know flake food is terrible, never used it anyway and that you should feed only what the fish can eat within 30 seconds or so. Any tips for minimizing the amount of phosphate contribution from food?

My schedule: Every morning I rinse refrigerated blackworms with RO, drain and suck up some worms in a pipette and directly feed to the butterflyfish. Later on in the day I break off a chunk, I'd say equivalent to 1/3 of a mysis cube of my homemade seafood blend (raw shrimp and scallop) and feed. Depending on whether the butterflyfish got some or not, I may do this again later in the day, but with less. The tang gets a 2 x 2" sheet of seaweed every 2-3 days and once and awhile I'll feed 10 or so NLS pellets. And do note, we had GHA well before the butterflyfish.

While I feel the feedings are significant in the growth and spread of the algae, it is not the source of the phosphates.

Next I will see if the rocks are leaching phosphates. Or, rather, they are highly likely to have become some sort of phosphate trap.

 

[eskymick]

But, here's the thing. My RO water has TDS = 2. I use just RO, not RODI and the filters are practically new. The PO4 in the storage Brute is .18 ppm and the PO4 from the RO outlet is .09. So that tells me there is some phosphate coming through my RO, and it's doubling in the Brute due to dirt and debris or whatever.

So, does that conclude I need to add DI? Let's talk realistically and not be paranoid, are these numbers significant in the grand scheme of things? A feeding contains 10 fold the amount of phosphates in the water... Obviously, my tank has a problem and the PO4 algae food is coming from somewhere and while the RO water and Brute are contributing, I'm not convinced it's a significant source. When you test PO4 in RO and in storage Brutes do you have readings >0?

I had the exact same finding a couple years ago. I was having an unexplained algae problem, despite running GFO and having a chaeto fuge. For the life of me, I could not find the source of elevated PO4. I kept testing the output from the RO/DI and it tested zero. One day, on a whim, I tested the water in the Brute container which stored the RO/DI output .... I found it to be high in PO4.

I was told by someone (I can no longer remember who), that RO/DI water can act like a "sponge". Apparently, the RO/DI water was drawing PO4 out of the Brute container. I switched from the Brute to a glass tank as a storage container. That ended the PO4 problem once and for all.

 

[tylersarah]

Where'd you purchase the glass storage tank? Just checked McMaster Carr $$...$$$...$$$$

 

[brianryan8]

Our lights ramp up and down, they're on roughly 9 hours a day. I'm with you on changing GFO more, it's expensive, will look more into regeneration and change it more often. I have a Salifert kit and a Hanna phosphate reader which both test 0 phosphates and we all know that's not true. We have been doing weekly 20 gallon water changes for a very long time.

It's reading 0 because all your algae is eating it up before the GFO can absorb algae. I suggest the following;

1) use RODI water
2) use bio Pellets
3) use GFO ( ok running BP also, I currently do that)
4) Manually remove algae from sandbed and rocks. Take live rocks from the tank and take some water from the tank in a Bucket. Scrub off algae with a brush and place back in the tank . By then your GFO will remove the Phos phates before it can feed the algae

It will take several weeks before your bio pellets has bacteria in it to remove phosphates .

Try it as I have done the above and had success

 

[tylersarah]

It's reading 0 because all your algae is eating it up before the GFO can absorb algae. I suggest the following;

1) use RODI water
2) use bio Pellets
3) use GFO ( ok running BP also, I currently do that)
4) Manually remove algae from sandbed and rocks. Take live rocks from the tank and take some water from the tank in a Bucket. Scrub off algae with a brush and place back in the tank . By then your GFO will remove the Phos phates before it can feed the algae

It will take several weeks before your bio pellets has bacteria in it to remove phosphates .

Try it as I have done the above and had success

The water column is no longer reading 0, .05 now, but I know realistically it's much higher. Biopellets don't seem like a good idea because I have very low nitrate. I've been scrubbing, daily. My arms are drying out from all the saltwater and it's especially bad with this Wisconsin winter. Note: this is Sarah, not Tyler complaining about dry skin.

 

[aleggett321]

I'm 100% with Brandon and the peroxide. I have had a couple of GHA outbreaks. The first time was a year and a half battle trying every possible thing to get my nutrients down since everyone kept telling me that was the cause. The last time I decided to test a couple of methods with the peroxide. I took out the easy rocks to get to and treated them out of the tank. Total kill within 2days. I then added it directly to the DT at 1ml per 10 gal. Within a week it had knocked the algae way way back. I finished off the job with a sea hare. I can't say if it will come back, it's only been a month, but as of now algae free.

 

[eskymick]

Where'd you purchase the glass storage tank? Just checked McMaster Carr $$...$$$...$$$$

Petco ... dollar per gallon sale. Any 29-40 gallon glass aquarium will do.

 

[barjam]

Will do. We find the GFO hardening more often than not despite regular adjustments and cleanings. What if we threw the reactor out the window and put the GFO in a mesh bag. Simple and easy to clean...

Reduce the amount and change once a week instead. Also move it away from kalk/2 part dosing if you do that.

 

[trinity1012]

Found the article, thank you.
Lets talk about food then. I know flake food is terrible, never used it anyway and that you should feed only what the fish can eat within 30 seconds or so. Any tips for minimizing the amount of phosphate contribution from food?

My schedule: Every morning I rinse refrigerated blackworms with RO, drain and suck up some worms in a pipette and directly feed to the butterflyfish. Later on in the day I break off a chunk, I'd say equivalent to 1/3 of a mysis cube of my homemade seafood blend (raw shrimp and scallop) and feed. Depending on whether the butterflyfish got some or not, I may do this again later in the day, but with less. The tang gets a 2 x 2" sheet of seaweed every 2-3 days and once and awhile I'll feed 10 or so NLS pellets. And do note, we had GHA well before the butterflyfish.

While I feel the feedings are significant in the growth and spread of the algae, it is not the source of the phosphates.

Next I will see if the rocks are leaching phosphates. Or, rather, they are highly likely to have become some sort of phosphate trap.

how do you narrow down your rock leaching po4?

 

[csauer52]

The PO4 in the GFO output is .06 ppm said Hanna Checker. The display tank has .05 ppm PO4. So, the GFO needs to be changed more than once every 1.5 weeks to be less than the tank.

Like I stated a few times, you may need to change it every few days in the beginning until you get it under control.

Doesn't hurt to test your water supply either. I had issues just like you for three years. No matter what I did I couldn't rid my display of algae. Finally one day I tested the output from my RO/DI unit. 0.17 and that was with ALL new filters AND membrane. Tested tap after that, 0.75.

SO, I also needed GFO in my RO/DI. Once I did that, I started seeing HUGE improvements right away and I now have no algae issues in my DT.

 

[serpent]

Glad you found the source of your PO4. Definatley keep up with the GFO change out and get a handle on what is in the tank, then look at adding a DI cartridge to your unit. Then if you have a Byprosis issue, TechM all the way.

 

[tylersarah]

how do you narrow down your rock leaching po4?

I was planning on using distilled water, mixing with reef crystals and putting a tank rock in a bucket with a powerhead, then testing for PO4 to see if any released from the rock.

Regardless of the result, I know our RO water has elevated PO4. Looking for some new High Density Polyethylene water containers today and a DI resin.

Thanks for the info. So, you run GFO on your tank AND RO unit? Do you regenerate your GFO to save money? We have an extra reactor, we could do this as well fairly easily.

 

[tylersarah]

Like I stated a few times, you may need to change it every few days in the beginning until you get it under control.

Doesn't hurt to test your water supply either. I had issues just like you for three years. No matter what I did I couldn't rid my display of algae. Finally one day I tested the output from my RO/DI unit. 0.17 and that was with ALL new filters AND membrane. Tested tap after that, 0.75.

SO, I also needed GFO in my RO/DI. Once I did that, I started seeing HUGE improvements right away and I now have no algae issues in my DT.

Our tap tested 1.70 ppm, yikes.

 

[barjam]

What test kit are you using. My understanding is that the Hanna (736 anyhow) can't test fresh water.

 

[tylersarah]

What test kit are you using. My understanding is that the Hanna (736 anyhow) can't test fresh water.

We are using the HI 713 handheld Phosphate checker. I'm not 100% on this but I think you can use it for both freshwater or saltwater

 

[csauer52]

Our tap tested 1.70 ppm, yikes.

What is it coming out of your RO/DI unit?

 

[Jovandfigueroa]

Think about getting a tang?

 

[tylersarah]

What is it coming out of your RO/DI unit?

We ditched the phosphate leaching Brute container, added DI to our RO unit and TDS and Phosphates test 0.00.

Went with a High Density Polyethylene 55 gal sprayer tank for storage and a 20 gallon brewing container for water changes. Phosphate, an inorganic chemical is leached from many plastics and although, this is perfectly safe for human consumption, we've all seen what it does to reef tanks.

Still waiting to see how quickly the GFO needs to be changed.

Magnesium from Kent sitting at 1700 ppm. Algae is still there, but it's not looking healthy.

This is the thread that began the series of changes to better our tank. Thank you all for contributing.

:bdaysmile: