--75g Barebottom/Starboard Reef Project--
- Thread starter arconom
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boxfishpooalot
Active member
Hey Acronym Its looking great!
Just want you to know im taggen along.
PS: love that pic with all the ditritus on the bottom,man ewwwwww. Phophate controll at its best. And algaes best friend.
Just want you to know im taggen along.
PS: love that pic with all the ditritus on the bottom,man ewwwwww. Phophate controll at its best. And algaes best friend.
arconom
Premium Member
Thanks boxfishpooalot
Well today the Saga continues. I fedexd 1- 1"Bulkhead and a 1 1/2 bulkhead from Marine Depot. My wife was pleased of yet another delivery
Once again I was graced by my bro-inlaws presence He was a animal today. Instead of getting ready for his 10 cruise to I don't know where,he decided to help me/do the plumbing.
Today all of the plumbing was finished. We will wait for a day to test for leaks. I want to make sure the PVC glue is totally dry.
The last minute he decided to add a drain which I was very happy about. Now I will have sweet water changes.
Tonight marks another milestone! Thanks everyone for taggin along.
Well today the Saga continues. I fedexd 1- 1"Bulkhead and a 1 1/2 bulkhead from Marine Depot. My wife was pleased of yet another delivery
Once again I was graced by my bro-inlaws presence
He was a animal today. Instead of getting ready for his 10 cruise to I don't know where,he decided to help me/do the plumbing.Today all of the plumbing was finished. We will wait for a day to test for leaks. I want to make sure the PVC glue is totally dry.
The last minute he decided to add a drain which I was very happy about. Now I will have sweet water changes.
Tonight marks another milestone! Thanks everyone for taggin along.
SERVO
New member
Looking good,
I completely agree with Travis about the bulkheads; Since you have a plumming guru and cheap access to dual union ballvalves; If your system was mine, I would put a DUBV before the inputs to each of the holes of the CL. This way you will be about to close off all of the inputs take out the piping and bath it in Marantic acid to clean off all of the biofilm and encrusted gunk/detrius that will build up over time. This will keep your CL flow to the max. You are technically limiting the capacity of the dart's output by having all of the 90 degree angles into your system. You will be surprised that you aren't getting as much flow as you would anticipate.
I added DUBV at the outflow of every hole in my tank and around every pump and device that may need to come of and get cleaned.
It looks like a really "neat" system. Wish I lived around you to help out!:smokin:
I completely agree with Travis about the bulkheads; Since you have a plumming guru and cheap access to dual union ballvalves; If your system was mine, I would put a DUBV before the inputs to each of the holes of the CL. This way you will be about to close off all of the inputs take out the piping and bath it in Marantic acid to clean off all of the biofilm and encrusted gunk/detrius that will build up over time. This will keep your CL flow to the max. You are technically limiting the capacity of the dart's output by having all of the 90 degree angles into your system. You will be surprised that you aren't getting as much flow as you would anticipate.
I added DUBV at the outflow of every hole in my tank and around every pump and device that may need to come of and get cleaned.
It looks like a really "neat" system. Wish I lived around you to help out!:smokin:
webpolk
New member
arconom said:
Use your tap water. No sense wasting that good RO/DI. When you are done testing, and it has dried, you can splash 3-4 gallons or RO/DI in it, on the sides, and run some through your plumbing to get any contaminants out before starting it all up.
I had to fill mine three times during testing, so trust me on this one.
Can't wait for more updates, this is starting to look great!
Steve
arconom
Premium Member
SERVO said:
Again I am new to CL/Closed Loop systems.
Well with a CL the only real "head pressure" that you do get would be from internal friction due to fittings and unions and such. I have 2 90s on each CL return. With rigid I couldn't get away without them. I do think that the unions are the main flow restricter. In the big picture I know Spaflex would be the best but it to has it's flaws.
I am starting out at 3500GPH if I get 2500 Thats ok.
If I were to take this same setup and apply the laws to it as if it were a "return system" yes I would be greatly decreasing the flow IMO.
Lunchbucket
Premium Member
arconom - please put dual union ball valves on ALL you bulkheads...then either put DUBV's on right before you tee's or just use regular unions. you might need to take apart pieces for some reason...reasons you can't see yet. personally i would use DUBV's then you can shut off part of the flow FROM the PUMP and FROM the TANK. then take that piece off and work on it or redo it. hey it happens...ask travis he redid his plumbing like 3-4times.
looks good though. where you getting DUBV's cheap??
use tap water. you won't contaminate to any considerable extent IMO...uless you are using bleach water
Lunchbucket
looks good though. where you getting DUBV's cheap??
use tap water. you won't contaminate to any considerable extent IMO...uless you are using bleach water
Lunchbucket
arconom
Premium Member
I was getting my DUBVs from Lowes for cheap. I bought all of there Stock. I also went to 2 plumbing supply houses and they say they would have to order them since it's a specialty thing. I didn't know that.
Travis was getting them cheap also on Ebay. I can't remember the persons name. I doubt hes still around.
I will search Travis's thread for the name again. I found it last night. How do I search the name on Ebay?
Also guys I know all the DUBVs are a must but how much more will this kill my flow?
Travis was getting them cheap also on Ebay. I can't remember the persons name. I doubt hes still around.
I will search Travis's thread for the name again. I found it last night. How do I search the name on Ebay?
Also guys I know all the DUBVs are a must but how much more will this kill my flow?
Travis
10 and over club
Yes, please do put unions at each bulkhead. Even if you never change the plumbing you may want to move the tank some day. It would be pretty hard to move it with all that plumbing sticking out. And the last thing you want to do is redo the plumbing while all of your livestock is sitting in tubs waiting. I still also recommend putting ball valves on each outlet so you can tweak the flow.
Use tap water for the testing. It's not going to contaminate anything. The only major contaminate in tap water is chlorine/chloramine. But after the water has been exposed to air for 24 hrs that goes away on its own anyways.
Don't bother looking for the guy I got the valves from. Several people have already tried and had no luck. Must have been a one time thing.
Unions will give neglibible head loss due to friction. Same with ball valves when they are running wide open. It is the 90 degree elbows that will kill flow. Another suggestion for the future would be to up the plumbing diameter to 1.5" at least to the last elbow. Then you can use the long turn 90's that come in 1.5" and create a lot less friction.
Use tap water for the testing. It's not going to contaminate anything. The only major contaminate in tap water is chlorine/chloramine. But after the water has been exposed to air for 24 hrs that goes away on its own anyways.
Don't bother looking for the guy I got the valves from. Several people have already tried and had no luck. Must have been a one time thing.
Unions will give neglibible head loss due to friction. Same with ball valves when they are running wide open. It is the 90 degree elbows that will kill flow. Another suggestion for the future would be to up the plumbing diameter to 1.5" at least to the last elbow. Then you can use the long turn 90's that come in 1.5" and create a lot less friction.
Travis
10 and over club
NexDog, is that a koran in your avatar? I got that same fish yesterday from the LFS for my FOWLR. It was labeled as a koran and I checked my book to verify and I thought it looked pretty close. Now that I have it in the tank I checked the book and the picture of the juvenile koran does not look exactly the same so it has me wondering. But whatever the fish in your avatar is, that is what I got.
arconom
Premium Member
Travis what do you think my head lose will be do to the 90s? Over all from what you see can you give me a number?
Me and my bro-inlaw learned alot of things we should do next time.
We will be putting DUBVs at each CL return. So that will take care of that problem.
We also totally had all the intentions of using 1.5 all the way up to the last elbow but we scratched it
I didn't even know in a Closed Loop that those 90s would have such a impact.
Me and my bro-inlaw learned alot of things we should do next time.
We will be putting DUBVs at each CL return. So that will take care of that problem.
We also totally had all the intentions of using 1.5 all the way up to the last elbow but we scratched it
I didn't even know in a Closed Loop that those 90s would have such a impact.
arconom
Premium Member
Well today I came home and filled the tank to check for leaks in the Bulkheads. There was 2, 1 in the intake and 1 one the return. I fixed one and left the other to drip for now. Other then that there was 0 leaks in the fittings and unions.
Moving on to starting up the pump!
First I want to say thanks for all the constructive comments that everyone has told me..
Me and my bro-inlaw have learned alot.
The one question my bro-inlaw would always ask me was "how much pressure would be in the pipes?" PSI and other terms
I would say some pressure, and I'm not to sure.
What we both didn't realize that there is hardly any pressure in the pipes themselves. After showing him pictures after pictures on RC of Closed Loop systems he would say
"why are people using drainage pipes for there plumbing" We both would always see those Y's being used. Then he would show me the difference between the drainage and the pressure fittings.
The main differance is the wall thickness and how much the pipe can be inserted into the fitting itself.
As a plumber would do he made my tank as if it were having pressure. We both wondered how people take this chance of using Spaflex and using drainage fittings. We both said how do people trust it.
Keep the above paragraph in mind for the next story.
So we filled the tank again. He let me plug the pump in and I did. The pump is DEAD SILENT!!!!! HOLY COW is it quiet.
Then the moment of truth
We watched the water flow and stuck are hands in the tank to feel it.
Before the """I TOLD YOU SO"" comes we both have come along way.
So before my bro-inlaw left to go home to pack for his cruise we both looked at each other and said well
"I know now why next time we don't need pressure fittings"
" We know know why people use drainage fittings"
"Man I can't believe those 90s did that"
"WOW I guess we should have done 1.5 all the way until the bulkhead"
He was very upset I told him "look at it this way we both learned something" Whats funny is he isn't even into tanks He just wanted to help me.
So his last words were "Go on RC learn everything you can from those guys and when I come back were doing most of it in SpaFlex'
SO GUYS here comes the questions....To come a little later
Moving on to starting up the pump!
First I want to say thanks for all the constructive comments that everyone has told me..
Me and my bro-inlaw have learned alot.
The one question my bro-inlaw would always ask me was "how much pressure would be in the pipes?" PSI and other terms
I would say some pressure, and I'm not to sure.
What we both didn't realize that there is hardly any pressure in the pipes themselves. After showing him pictures after pictures on RC of Closed Loop systems he would say
"why are people using drainage pipes for there plumbing" We both would always see those Y's being used. Then he would show me the difference between the drainage and the pressure fittings.
The main differance is the wall thickness and how much the pipe can be inserted into the fitting itself.
As a plumber would do he made my tank as if it were having pressure. We both wondered how people take this chance of using Spaflex and using drainage fittings. We both said how do people trust it.
Keep the above paragraph in mind for the next story.
So we filled the tank again. He let me plug the pump in and I did. The pump is DEAD SILENT!!!!! HOLY COW is it quiet.
Then the moment of truth
We watched the water flow and stuck are hands in the tank to feel it.
Before the """I TOLD YOU SO"" comes we both have come along way.
So before my bro-inlaw left to go home to pack for his cruise we both looked at each other and said well
"I know now why next time we don't need pressure fittings"
" We know know why people use drainage fittings"
"Man I can't believe those 90s did that"
"WOW I guess we should have done 1.5 all the way until the bulkhead"
He was very upset I told him "look at it this way we both learned something" Whats funny is he isn't even into tanks
He just wanted to help me.So his last words were "Go on RC learn everything you can from those guys and when I come back were doing most of it in SpaFlex'
SO GUYS here comes the questions....To come a little later
Travis
10 and over club
You only need SUBV's at the bulkheads so go with those and save a few bucks.
Here is what I get with the head loss calculator on the RC home page. This is assuming you are using roughly 8 feet of 1" pipe, 7 90's, 2 tee's, 6 ball valves, and 7 unions branching off into 5 outlets. It gives me a head loss of 7.5 feet. So plug that into the Dart's performance curve data and you are looking at a max flow of 2000 GPH. However, the head loss calculator does not account for the fact that the dart should be plumbed with 1.5" pipe and you are only using 1". So just guesstimating, I would say you are looking at another 100 - 200gph reduction due to the smaller pipe diameter. This would have been worse had you used 1" to the tees but I see you used 1.5" to the tees so that was good. So my estimation gives you about 1800gph MAX before you start turning your ball valves to tweak the flow. Divide that by 5 and you are getting 360gph at each outlet.
Here is what I get with the head loss calculator on the RC home page. This is assuming you are using roughly 8 feet of 1" pipe, 7 90's, 2 tee's, 6 ball valves, and 7 unions branching off into 5 outlets. It gives me a head loss of 7.5 feet. So plug that into the Dart's performance curve data and you are looking at a max flow of 2000 GPH. However, the head loss calculator does not account for the fact that the dart should be plumbed with 1.5" pipe and you are only using 1". So just guesstimating, I would say you are looking at another 100 - 200gph reduction due to the smaller pipe diameter. This would have been worse had you used 1" to the tees but I see you used 1.5" to the tees so that was good. So my estimation gives you about 1800gph MAX before you start turning your ball valves to tweak the flow. Divide that by 5 and you are getting 360gph at each outlet.
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