A couple questions about Ornate Leopard Wrasse, please!

[Sand.man]

Hi,

So first thing, I did post this in the leopard primer thread as well, but I'm just hoping to get an answer right away, and I might get a bit more traffic this way, lol.

So I just bought an ornate leopard wrasse on Friday, and I'm not going to lie, it was a rather uneducated decision. Usually I research everything before I buy it, but I just really liked how it looked and made a decision to buy one. The person at the LFS said that they were eating frozen food, and that getting them to eat is the only reason they're deemed "expert level" but since they were already eating frozen food so I figured I might have a decent chance.

I have a couple questions regarding this fish.

At home today, I put some brine shrimp + mysis shrimp soaked in selcon, in the afternoon and at night. Both times, the leopard wrasse seemed to eat a couple shrimp, which was a good sign for me. He didn't seem to show any interest at all in the NLS thera a pellet.

I should mention that on Friday after acclimation, I put him into my QT tank, and there was a tupperware of sand right below where I released him. He instantly dove down into the tupperware and buried himself.

I was expecting to not see him for a couple days, but today he came out during the afternoon, around 3 pm, and I fed him a bit.

After I came home, around 8pm, I checked up on him and he seemed to be rather erratic, looked like he was rubbing his face on the barebottom of the tank, and breathing a bit heavily. I added a bit more food, and he seemed to go after it and ate a couple mysis + brine. Went back to rubbing his head after eating.

I'm not sure if this is ich or flukes, both of which can cause this type of behavior. I'll have to do a bit more research before treatment. I am most likely going to medicate prazipro tomorrow, as I'm leaning towards the fact that it might be flukes.

Any ideas on how to be certain if it's ich or flukes? or was he just stressed that might cause this behavior? was it his reflection on the bare bottom that might be causing this behavior?

Before I left, he was just swimming around the bottom of the tank looking at his reflection but not scratching/rubbing his head. That was only after I got home that he started that.

Secondly, Although when I first put him into the tank he dove into the tupperware of sand, tonight, when I turned/dimmed the lights, instead of going into the sand, he just found a corner of the tank, and seemed to "settle in" or go to sleep like that.

I was wondering, would it be hard for them to find a tupperware of sand? It's pretty big, and he already slept in there once, so he should know that there's sand in the tupperware? it seems like he was just avoiding the sand, and just distracted/preoccupied with his reflection/rubbing his head on the bare bottom, and didn't pay any attention to the sand in the tupperware. Even when it was time for him to sleep.

Should I be concerned about him not finding the sand? or is this something that after a few days he should figure out that there's sand in the tupperware? or should I tip the tupperware over so that the top/opening of the tupperware is flush with the barebottom? like stand it up vertically so the opening of the tupperware is facing the side of the tank, rather than the top, if that makes sense.

Any advice/info would be great, I'm just trying to learn as much as possible, I really like this fish.

Cheers.

 

[RJT]

Its really good that she is eating and in a qt.

The rubbing against the bottom of the tank and breathing erradically may be from seeing its reflection. Since it isn't doing it all the time and actually eating I wouldn't be too concerned about this.

Don't move the sand, she knows where it is and seems content with not using it all the time. Maybe put some pvc in there to give her an option.

 

[snorvich]

IMO, the leopards behavior is not good. There are several reasons that these fish are considered difficult or expert level, but it is not because they don't eat frozen. All will eat PE mysis, eventually they will eat NLS pellets, but these fish are grazers and eat copepods constantly. The fact that the fish did not go into the sand to sleep is not good.

 

[MIKE NY]

IMO, the leopards behavior is not good. There are several reasons that these fish are considered difficult or expert level, but it is not because they don't eat frozen. All will eat PE mysis, eventually they will eat NLS pellets, but these fish are grazers and eat copepods constantly. The fact that the fish did not go into the sand to sleep is not good.

x2...I would place in some LR in the QT for it to hunt and feed live Artic pods or some simular live foods to really encourage it to start eating..

 

[KJoFan]

I have three leopard wrasses, including an ornate and would agree that it's failure to dive into the sand is concerning.

All three of mine survived a tank teardown/move to a new house where they lived in a rubbermaid tub for 6 months successfully with just a small tub of sand to dive into. They all found the sand every night.

I would also make sure to source some live pods for it to eat, even if it's eating some frozen, I believe they get the bulk of their feeding from live foods.

 

[kw22]

Snorvich +1

 

[snorvich]

I would also make sure to source some live pods for it to eat, even if it's eating some frozen, I believe they get the bulk of their feeding from live foods.

Adding a ball of chaeto periodically will help in the short run, but long term they will need substantial copepods and related so a mature largish tank will be desirable.

 

[Sand.man]

So last night he was still looking rather erratic, so I acted on my gut instinct and decided to dose the tank with prazipro.

This morning I looked in the tank, and he seemed a lot more calm, and was passively swimming around the lower part of the tank, with occasionally exploring up to the middle.

I do already have 2 pvc pipes in there, and after prazipro, and lights out last night, he decided to settle down between the two pvc pipes instead of the tub of sand to sleep.

I added some more Mysis soaked with selcon today, and he ate about 2-3 shrimp, so I'm glad the prazipro didn't affect his appetite.

I'm definitely looking to supplement some live foods as soon as possible, the fastest thing that I can get is some reef nutrition stuff. I'm guessing the reef nutrition arcti pods would be the best, but there's also tigger pods, would the tigger pods be a better choice? Or is arcti pods the best for a QT tank?

I have also read that live foods such as these can have a chance of introducing parasites into the tank, is there any truth to this? Should it be something that I should be concerned about? Or would it be okay, since the tank has prazipro in it already.

Would the arcti pods be okay with the prazipro in the tank already?

Thanks a lot for all the inputs so far, much appreciated.

 

[Sand.man]

Okay so after a bit of research, I'm sort of at a cross roads. I'm not sure if I should supplement the qt tank with multiple feedings of arcti pods, or tigger pods.

I'm leaning towards the arcti pods, as they are a bit larger and from what I've read the leopard likes to chow on some of the meatier foods.

The only reason I'm stuck on maybe buying the tigger pods is simply because they are live, vs the dead arcti pods. Is the tigger pods being live that much of an advantage compared to the dead arcti pods? Or is the fact that he is already accepting Mysis good enough that supplementing his diet with arcti pods should be sufficient (along with other food items such as brine/cyclopz/pellets) compared to the live aspect of tigger pods.

Is it absolutely essential for them to need live food?

Any thoughts?

Bare in mind, that my only main concern is the couple weeks that he will spend in QT tank, as my display is a 6 foot 100 gal with sufficient live rock (established for about a year now).

 

[RJT]

I would agree with Snorvich as well. He knows a lot more than I do.

Eating Mysis is a good sign. I have 2 leopards and it took weeks to get them to eat it.

 

[Sand.man]

Update:

Well I went out and got myself some Reef Nutrition Arcti Pods, I figured I should try and get as much nutrition into the fish as possible, lol.

When I got home, the leopard was just pacing back and forth on one side of the tank, almost as if following/distracted by it's reflection. He wasn't rubbing his head or scratching or anything, nor was he breathing heavily. He seemed content, just all that he was doing was pacing the side of the tank, following his reflection.

It's his second day in the tank, and my guess is that he's just getting used to it, and learning about it. I have seen every fish that I add to my QT do this, pacing the side of the tank interested/distracted by their reflection and just following it around.

I added about 2 drops of Arcti Pods into the water, and although he didn't immediately go nuts for it, he did stop his pacing and eat a few of the coepods, so that was somewhat of a good sign.

As usual, whenever I add any food into the tank (mysis/brine/cyclopz), I drop one pellet of NLS Thera-A food along with the other food, to see if the leopard would be interested. The first few times he seemed to notice the pellet, but didn't really go for it, I guess he might have also been a bit distracted by all the mysis magically appearing in front of his face.

This time, with 2 drops of Arcti Pods, I dropped one pellet, and he ran right after it, tried to bite it, and let it go right after. I figured that the pellet might be too big/hard for him to eat, so I took some tank water in a dish and broke up/soaked another pellet to soften it up a bit and break it into smaller pieces. By this time, he had finished the Arcti pods, and went back to his distracted pacing against the wall.

I then added only the pellet, broken down into much smaller pieces, and this time he actually went after a few of the small pieces of pellets. That was a good sign for me, as I really like the Thera-A pellets, they seem to have kept all my other fish in QT happy and healthy.

After he ate about 2 pellets, he swam around the tank a couple laps and went back to pacing the side wall/chasing his reflection if you want to call it that.

The bad news so far, is that once again, after I turned the lights off, he seemed to much prefer the pvc pipes or the side of the tupperware container to hide and sleep, instead of actually going into the tupperware and into the sand.

Is it possible that the tupperware is too small? so he might be a bit intimidated thinking that it's possibly a trap? I doubt it, but I'm just really baffled by this not wanting to go into the sand thing. He did spend the first night I released him into the tank in the sand, so he should know that it's there, and that it's safe.

Or is it possible that the tupperware is too tall? or is the sand too shallow? the tupperware is about 3 inches tall, and the sand is about a bit more than halfway inside the tupperware... From what I've read, it should be around 2-3 inches tall, so maybe the sand is too shallow?

I guess so far all that I can do is keep the water stable, and try to keep him fed, maybe tomorrow I might add a bit more sand, and completely fill the tupperware up, so that the sand is a bit deeper.

 

[eatbreakfast]

The fact that at night he is finding a place to settle, even though not in the sand is fine. His behavior seems fairly normal except for sleeping. As long he is not laying on his side, swimming in circles, or trying to bury in the glass are all good signs.

 

[Sand.man]

Good news, I just checked on him this morning, and he either has obtained an invisibility cloak, or he was sleeping in the sand. =).

I'm guessing maybe it was a time zone difference that might have caused him to not dive in the sand right away. Because I checked him around 2 am, and he was still out but now at 10 am he's nowhere to be found.

Thanks everyone for your input, I really appreciate it. Hopefully I can continue to update with good news.

 

[KJoFan]

Sounds like you're on the right track with him. It's eating prepared foods which is also good. What size tank will it be going into once it's out of QT? Is it an established tank with plenty of opportunity for it to hunt pods?

I keep my ornate in a 30g frag tank (with sand) with a 40 breeder for a sump. It has pitiful amounts of chaeto in the sump, so I doubt the pod population is through the roof.

I've had my ornate for probably 12-18 months now with no problems. I also rarely feed any prepared foods to that tank. So, while bigger is always better, I don't know that a large tank is needed for one pod eating fish such as this guy.

 

[Marshall O]

FWIW, I had my juvenile M. choati in an acclimation box for 3 nights with a container of sand. It chose to sleep wedged between PVC all 3 nights. It slept in the sand no problem once in the DT though.

 

[Sand.man]

He's going to be my first pod eating fish inside a 100 gallon 6 foot tank.

The live rocks have been in there for almost a year now, and probably around 120-140 pounds, so I'm assuming there should be a good amount of pods in there. I do see a bunch of them when I try to focus closely onto certain areas of the rock. Maybe I'll try to throw in some phyto-feast or something while the wrasse is in QT to help grow the pod population a bit more.

Marshall, that's good news, it does sort of help ease my worries about his sleeping habits.

My current issue, is that the wrasse is still predominantly pacing the side of the tank, chasing his reflection around. I'm under the impression that he should be swimming around the whole tank, looking for food? Instead he's constantly just pacing the side wall, or chasing his reflection on the bottom of the tank, doesn't look like he's digging the bottom, just chasing around his reflection like he's doing on the side.

Is this something I should be concerned about? Although all my fish did this when they were first introduced into the QT, I'm just hoping that he'll eventually get comfortable and swim around the whole tank, rather than be glued to one side chasing around his reflection.

Thanks for all the advice, everyone.