A Game: WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

--- NEW SCENARIO ---

You're a new diver on a weekend getaway with a buddy that has about twice as many dives as you do, though he considers himself a "new diver" as well even though he's been certified for a couple of years now.

As you're gearing up on the boat and doing your complete "buddy check", you verbally and visually remind your buddy that your rig is configured completely different from any other on the boat that day, because your Octo is connected to an inverted 19cf Pony w/ the hose charged and the valve turned OFF. The boat operator then begins telling you and your buddy how to locate the wreck that you're planning to dive. He begins by pointing out a marking post on land, then telling you to follow the sand rift from the beach which gradually descends down to the wreck which lies at 24' fsw.

As you and your buddy clear each other, you step off the boat and realize that the VIS is very limited, so you stay a bit closer together than you had originally intended, which is good!

As you continue the descent, you both get slightly disoriented and off track, then eventually find your way back to the rift and ultimately find the wreck. Never having had the opportunity to dive a wreck before, you're like a kid in a candy store wanting to cover every inch of the old wooden boat that looked like it used to be on Giligan's Island.

You're swimming so low that you're literally doing a belly crawl to see as mfar under it as possible while looking for large fish, then you work your way up and over the rails and are looking down into every possible nook and cranny that can be seen WITHOUT gaining entrance. Once yoiu've seen all that you can, you motion to your buddy for his permission to enter the doorway (still always remaining in full view at all times), and your buddy gives you the OK sign and moves into a position where he can immediately be of assistance should anything go awry.

As you begin dropping down through the doorway into the galley of the boat (still fully visible due to random missing sections of deck), you get hung up and you have to back up and raise yourself a bit to free yourself... You glance up and see your buddy moving in to help you right as you free yourself... Once free, you begin descending again, making sure to stay lower in the passageway this time... Woohooo, finally you're in the belly of the wreck!

Being curious and also being your first wreck dive, you flip over everything and stick your head into every possible nook and cranny that you find, then once you've seen everything that there is to see, you exit through a broad opening in the stern. Being that the VIS is really bad at this depth, you take a compass reading on the wreck, and then you and your buddy swim off looking for other cool stuff nearby.

While swimming in the open, you suddenly realize that there is something seriously wrong with your regulator, because at the end of each breath you really have to suck it in, and your SPG is bouncing down to zero PSI each time you inhale. You pause, motion to your buddy, and he immediately notices it too and motions UP then follows it with an inquisitive hand gesture as if he's asking you want you want to do.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO..?

-Tim
 
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Heh. :)

I'd reach over my right shoulder and turn my valve back on. :)

...And tell my buddy, "Okay." "Shaka, bro," and continue the dive.

Good scenario. :)
 
Yep, that's exactly what I had to do on Saturday. Aparently when I got hung up and was moving back-n-forth trying to free myself, I inadvertantly rolled my valve closed, but due to the exitement of diving this wreck, I never really noticed that anything was wrong... ;)

Several minutes later when we returned on the compass bearing, I went back into the wreck one more time and this time upon exit I got a fin all entangled in a bunch of wires. By the time I realized what had happened, my buddy had most of it cleared away already.

-Tim
 
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How'd it go? Rolling the valve back on, I mean... I can't tell you how many people I see wear their tanks such that they simply can not reach their valves.
 
It was stupidly simple once I realized what I *thought* had happened. I came to the realization that this had to be the case, just as I was about to turn on my Pony valve and realized that the situations were identical. Rather than resorting to the Pony, I simply reached over my right shoulder and turned the valve fully open, then took in a nice deep cool breath and we continued the dive. Had I not had the pony, we would have thumbed the dive immediately until we resolved the issue which was unknown at the time.

I honestly believe the fact that I have chosen to carry my Pony with the hose charged but the valve closed (1 full breath of air) made me realize what had happened at the very moment that I actually thought about it... Despite the "controversey" of carrying a Pony, and then inverted and turned OFF no less, it made me stop and think rather than panicing like many people (especially newer divers) would have most likely done. I was more like, "Duh!" :rolleyes:

At that point we were in about 16' of water, so no matter what the situation we both knew that I had a good 20+ minutes of air in the Pony to either finish the dive or simply get back to the boat, so I consider it to have been a very good "training exercise" due to the way everything came together in such a natural manner.

-Tim
 
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A redundant source of gas is always a good idea, so I think that your thought process behind the pony is a good one, and shows that you're particularly safety-minded.

Divers trained with the methods taught by GUE (the "DIR Guys") are also taught to "charge" their regs and then turn off the valves. The reason is because when you're diving multiple types of gasses, having all of the valves off forces you to look at the bottle you want to breathe from (and read it's MOD to make sure that it's safe to breathe) while turning on the valve. When you take the second stage and begin breathing from it, if it gives you a breath, you're breathing the right gas. That way, there's no mistake (which could easily be lethal).

This practice didn't start and stop with GUE - this is a standard practice in any kind of "technical" diving - it's just that GUE has put it into their training programs and sorta made it an official practice.

Obviously, this is a big deal when you've got three or four different mixes to switch to - a common practice in diving deeper or longer than "recreational" dive limits. However, the novel idea that GUE encourages is to teach this practice from the outset so that there is no need to "relearn" when you decide to begin "technical" training. In this way, it's common to hear GUE-trained divers comment that there is not, or shouldn't be, a difference between "recreational" and "technical" diving. To them, in this way, there is no border between the two, which scientifically, is correct.

...So even if you've got air in your tanks on your back and the same exact gas (air) in your pony, it makes sense to practice the same procedures - pressurizing your regs, then turning off the valve - that you would if you had multiple gasses to switch to.

...Which is the same logic that says that it makes more sense to sling an AL40 like a stage bottle than it does to strap a pony to your backgas, mounted upside-down. What makes sense is to have an obviously-labeled tank that you can easily read and manipulate, and even remove, stow, and adjust. After all, when you do it like that, tomorrow you can sling two or more more AL40's in the same way and extend your diving range with ease and zero learning curve.

Alternatively, it can also be said that diving doubles is the ultimate in attaching a "pony" to your backgas. Not only that, but everything's redundant with a manifold - two tanks, two first stages, and two second stages, all of which are completely isolatable. If, for example, a first stage suddenly had an issue, you could easily isolate the problem and shut it down and still have access to all of your back gas through all of your other systems.

If you're diving with a pony strapped to your backgas, it sounds like you're ready for doubles - they are, after all, the ultimate "pony." A lot more gas, too. :)
 
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My plan is to go with a BP/W and doubles rig next year... My wife is getting certified next month, so "hopefully" she'll be as into into diving as I am and that will give me the opportunity that I need to upgrade sooner than later. :)

-Tim
 
"Next year" is only like four months away - you'd better start shopping now. :)

Call Doug Maudry at Extreme Exposure in High Springs, FL. Take a "Fundies" course with him and have him put together a set of doubles for you. Meanwhile, you'll get the chance to do some really cool diving while you're there... I'll meet you there and bring my scooters. :)
 
It all takes $$$... Before I do anything else though in regards to equipment, I intend to get NITROX and AOW certified, after that the sky is the limit.

I will be in Ft. Pierce Florida later this year on business, and will be driving down which means I'll be bringing my gear with the hopes of diving Indian River.

-Tim
 
AOW and Nitrox are great to have - so is Rescue. To me, AOW and Rescue are the "chapters two and three" of your basic scuba courses. "Nitrox" is really your first step towards mixed gas diving, which is diving of the "technical" sort.

"Fundies" is a class that can be taken any time - in fact, many instructors feel that the earlier, the better - before a diver develops bad diving habits that need to be unlearned to pass.

I had OW, AOW, Rescue (all PADI) and Nitrox (SSI) before I took my first Fundies course... Which I failed miserably (almost everybody does). I didn't take my second Fundies course until a year and a half later, which I SMOKED because I had been practicing nothing but that for a year and a half. I mean, I WAS ON A MISSION. :) Meanwhile, my girlfriend at the time (with whom I'd been practicing) also took the class and earned a "provisional" pass, even though she'd never taken the course before. After all, she'd been practicing things, too, in support of me.

I am a big proponent of education - and I feel that ALL courses are going to do you good, so I recommend every one of them. The best divers I know have a multitude of certifications from all agencies, and have even more education based on personal research and experience - for which they did not earn a certification. It can be said that this kind of education, which was completely personal and not structured at all, is their most valued.

...So research. When you're not diving, read about diving. Consider everything. There is no requirement to stop learning because you don't have the finances to cover a formal course that supplies a C-card at the end.

...But of formal courses, I would say that GUE's "Fundamentals" course was, by far, the most educational course I've ever taken. It not only changed my dive style, but rooted in me a philosophy about diving that had affected my entire life.

Highly recommended, regardless of your certification level.

That said, I understand that Doug is also a PADI instructor, and can also certify you for AOW and Nitrox. :)

One more thing: Contact DAN (Divers Alert Network) or their home base at Duke University's Hyperbaric Facility, and ask if they are doing any studies. You'd be pleasantly surprised to find that they're constantly looking for people to "ride the chambers" during experimental dives. They pay - which is to say that you'll gain experience, knowlege, understanding (from the cutting edge of hyperbarics), and a few bucks for another class. You'll also be surrounded by the best of the best, and the highest quality physiological scientists and scientific equipment available today. Heck, just having these guys take you around and show you the history of the place is worth the trip.
 
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My biggest "known" issue has been underwater navigation, especially in extremely limited VIS... Knowing this will become a huge issue sooner than later, I have been diving my compass almost exclusively in order to refine my skills.

My bouyancy is pretty decent for the most part, but it certainly has room for improvement.

Gas management is getting better and better with each successive dive, as it should be, though my weak point is cold and deep dives because I tend to breathe much more rapidly than when I'm shallow and warm. Whilke I realize this is the norm, I still need to improve my breathing in these situations.

Don't scream at me, but I have already done a very tight and confined overhead dive through an old multi-room Dynamite Shack at 54' in near zero VIS once the silting began from my fins, and was very comfortable in that environment. It had been marked off, so it was a simple matter of maintaining near perfect bouyancy and keeping at least 1 hand on the string at all times. This absolutely reinforced my desire to dive caves and other overheads because I wasn't just seeing something really cool, I was seeing something really cool that the majority of other divers that come across it will likely never enter.

My rationale for wanting EAN next, is to be able to eliminate a bit of fatigue after diving... As it stands, it kicks my *** by the end of the day!

-Tim
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15515449#post15515449 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SeaJayInSC
One more thing: Contact DAN (Divers Alert Network) or their home base at Duke University's Hyperbaric Facility, and ask if they are doing any studies. You'd be pleasantly surprised to find that they're constantly looking for people to "ride the chambers" during experimental dives. They pay - which is to say that you'll gain experience, knowlege, understanding (from the cutting edge of hyperbarics), and a few bucks for another class. You'll also be surrounded by the best of the best, and the highest quality physiological scientists and scientific equipment available today. Heck, just having these guys take you around and show you the history of the place is worth the trip.
Click to expand...
I would freakn LOVE that! I also plan to become a member of DAN right after the first of the year, so that we'll be covered for our dives in the Caymans and Jamaica next March on our cruise. Heck, you should plan to join us on the Carnival Freedom for the March 7th departure out of Ft. Lauderdale! :D

http://www.carnival.com/Itinerary.a...ateCode=PPB&sailDate=3/7/2010&sailingID=46727

-Tim
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15515521#post15515521 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tgreene
Don't scream at me, but I have already done a very tight and confined overhead dive through an old multi-room Dynamite Shack at 54' in near zero VIS once the silting began from my fins, and was very comfortable in that environment.
Click to expand...

If you know it's wrong, then why do you do it? :)

Yes, by all means - do that dive. Enjoy the overhead. Do it in zero visibility, and enjoy experiencing things that very few others will ever experience.

But get the required training first.

That said, I dove for almost 15 years before getting my first C-card... And only then because I finally got "carded" at the dive shop and wasn't able to fill a tank without a C-card. :)

...So I'm a poor example of "get the training first," but from what I know now, if I had to do it all over again, I'd get the training first. You'll save yourself a lot of "oh, crap"s if you do it that way. :)


My rationale for wanting EAN next, is to be able to eliminate a bit of fatigue after diving... As it stands, it kicks my *** by the end of the day!
Click to expand...

Yes, and it is very good for doing exactly that. Here's why:

Your bloodstream is full of bubbles - tiny, microscopic bubbles of nitrogen and oxygen and carbon dioxide, all stuck to the hemoglobin on your red blood cells. This is the "soup" that flows around inside of you and keeps you alive.

When you dive, these bubbles shrink because of the pressure of the water. Since your red blood cells tend to pick up and carry bubbles of a certain size, they exchange the now-smaller bubbles in your lungs for a normal-sized bubble of fresh gas. When you think about it, that means that there's now a lot more molecules of gas held by that red blood cell... It's just that these molecules are now packed more tightly together in a same-sized bubble as your red blood cells would be carrying if you weren't diving at all.

When you ascend, the opposite happens - these bubbles grow. Some of them can grow large enough that the red blood cells can't actually hold them any more... And they leave the red blood cell. This happens all the time when a diver dives and ascends in the water column. At what point, exactly, these "loose bubbles" become a physiological issue (the definition of DCI, DCS, or "the bends" - whatever you want to call it) for that person is up for debate, and depends on blood flow, efficiency of that person's lungs, blood (and therefore ambient) temperature, and the like.

The theoretical solution to keep this process under control so that it doesn't cause you any symptoms is to relieve pressure slowly... That is, ascend in the water column slowly. In some cases, so slowly that for practical reasons, you might as well just stop altogether and wait for a while before ascending any more. This is called a "decompression stop," and is not anything complex or "technical" - it's really just that simple. You're waiting for your body to "catch up" so that you don't cause yourself any physical problems. In diver lingo (like surfer lingo), we simply say that we've got to stop so that we don't "fizz" (like opening a can of soda - you've got to relieve pressure slowly so that bubbles big enough to cause problems don't form).

Okay, here's why you're tired:

When these bubbles form but aren't big enough to cause symptoms of DCS, they sorta "float around" in your blood stream until they eventually make it to the lungs, which... Over time... Eventually dissapates out as you exhale. Meanwhile, while floating around in your bloodstream, your body considers a bubble an invader - much like it would if you had a bacterial or viral infection. Similarly, the bubble is often attacked by the body with white blood cells.

...Which results in a general feeling of fatigue and even "flu-like" symptoms at the end of a day's diving. Congratulations - you've got your first indication of your body's limits. Many people never notice them, and never learn where their limits are until it's too late.

...So the key in keeping these symptoms from occuring is in minimizing bubble formation. That way, your body won't feel like it's being "invaded."

Here's a few things you can do to reduce bubble formation:

1. Switch to a gas that's got less nitrogen in it (such as EANx, or "nitrox"). This will supply your body with less bubble-producing nitrogen.
2. Dive shallower than you would otherwise. Max depth of the wreck at 60 feet? Dive to 50 and enjoy the wreck from there. Avoid the bottom.
3. Dive more conservative profiles. Does your dive plan call for a 40-minute surface intereval? Why not go ahead and chill for a few and make it an hour? It'll do your body good and you'll feel much better at the end of the day.
4. Reduce your bottom time. Sure, we all would like to stretch the dive out to an hour, but we'll all pay for it heavily with an overall crappy feeling later on - why not make two dives of 30 minutes each instead?
5. Get tested for a PFO. A PFO is a heart condition, left over from when you were an embryo, whereby some of the oxygenated blood coming from your lungs is able to mix with the carbon-dioxide-laden blood going into your lungs. Through this, bubbles can pass and cause a problem in proper offgassing, rendering you particularly susceptible to a DCS hit. The issue is relatively rare, and problems with it rarer still - but nonetheless, get tested to ensure that your body has the ability to offgas correctly and that you don't need to compensate with additional conservatism over typical dive tables.
6. Ascend slower. Years ago PADI was telling everyone that an ascent rate of 60 ft/min was the recommended practice. Today they say 30 ft/minute. Cutting edge research recommends a MAXIMUM of 30 ft/minute! SLOW DOWN when you're ascending - in general, the slower you ascend the better you'll feel at the end of the day. Just like opening that can of soda, the slower you can do it, the less likely you are of having it explode on you.
7. Ascend PROGRESSIVELY slower. That is, slow your ascent as you near the surface. This is a new one - a BIG one, that I could write pages and pages about. Here's a synopsis: All of the agencies are talking about ascent rates in terms of feet per minute. This is the wrong thought process... The RIGHT way to think about your ascent is in terms of percentage of pressure released over time. For example, a diver ascending from 100 feet to 70 feet over one minute is ascending at a rate of 30 ft/min, right? In pressure terms, that's one atmosphere per minute. In percentage of pressure, that's a 25% reduction in ambient pressure over one minute (4 atmospheres to 3 atmospheres over one minute). Given the same scenario if the diver was ascending from 30 feet to the surface over one minute, it would be a 50% reduction in ambient pressure per minute - a much less safe profile (2 atmospheres to 1 atmosphere over one minute = a 50% reduction in ambient pressure over one minute). What percentage pressure reduction is safe is up to the individual diver's physiological condition, fitness level, saturation level, and a myriad of other considerations - including what is considered "safe" - but the bottom line is that the lower the percentage change in ambient pressure over time, the better the diver feels at the end of the day, and the less likely he or she is to experience any kind of decompression or hyperbaric injury. It can thus be said that an ascent of 60 ft/minute may be safe at 130 feet, but that the diver should consider an ascent rate of 15 or 20 ft/minute at 10 feet. Ultimately, in an effort to reduce this percentage of change in ambient pressure over time (rather than a set ft/minute ascent), the diver may have to stop the ascent altogether and wait, rather than try to ascend an inch every ten seconds. It's simply not that exact of a science, after all. This is called a "decompression stop." ...Which, of course, blurs the line between "recreational" and "technical" diving. :)

...All of which is a lot to think about and consider, really. My point is that there is a lot you can do to improve the way you feel at the end of the dive day without having to wait for that C-card. Put ALL of these solutions into practice, and just imagine what you can do... The places that you can see... And the dives you can dive. :)
 
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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15515549#post15515549 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tgreene
I would freakn LOVE that! I also plan to become a member of DAN right after the first of the year...
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Not necessary. Volunteers at the Duke University Hyperbaric Facility are given a DAN membership for free.

If you are already a DAN member, they will upgrade you or extend your membership at your choice... But the point is that you do not need to bother with it if you become a volunteer.


...so that we'll be covered for our dives in the Caymans and Jamaica next March on our cruise. Heck, you should plan to join us on the Carnival Freedom for the March 7th departure out of Ft. Lauderdale! :D
Click to expand...


Thanks for the invitation! :) Yeah, I think I might be able to put something together. :) Email or PM me and let's chat.

That said, I know what these things cost, and have little empathy for your financial excuses when it comes to diving beyond your training. :)
 
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