A little confused, Who here justifies this hobby?

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Versus

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Not trying to start anything but I see so many threads about our hobby vs (place something with mother nature here).

I am just curious does anyone here actually think our hobby contributes any sort of benefit? If so could you explain your position how we are helping?

I have a tank, with fish, corals. I have them because its pretty and a fun hobby. How ever I believe I am contributing to .. not the demise of the reefs but something that is certainly not beneficial to them in anyway.

Even if we all fragged our tanks, traveled to where ever and put everything back 10 fold (which wouldnt be good either) The amount of power we use to maintain our tanks as a whole certainly isnt good considering how power in most areas is produced (Wind power lucky you)


I think it would be awesome if a gigantic fish could put me in lets say just my bed room, with a bed and thats it. With a jack hammer constantly going off outside of my room. Oh and my bed is a single.. one of those singles that your feet hang off of and a few springs poking in my back. And I am fed a nice diet of 4 different kinds of "nutri-system" ie. cardboard with water\salt\cornstarch for a sauce.

Anyway yeah, Justify the hobby. (btw since people cant talk about politics although a lot of underlying discussion goes on about it I would like to set something straight. I am not a hippy, In fact I think aliens are growing us here to harvest us and eat, so I do not care too much about "earth" I still dont litter though.. I dislike it.)
 
wild caught is certainly not beneficial to the reefs but fragging and captive grown are gaining a percentage in the industry.
 
I don't try to justify anything. But, I don't drive an F-350 and I buy captive-bred when available. I enjoy the hobby and that's enough. Any hobby will require energy. Even if you just like drawing, you need paper and pencils, which means you need to kill trees.
 
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First and foremost this hobby contributes a benefit for me. I enjoy everything about the hobby. But with that being said, it has made me more conscious of the ocean and it's inhabitants and want to make sure they are here for future generations. Like SDahmer said every hobby uses power or some resource. I do everything I can to try to cut back my power usage like run my MH lights 5 hours a day, utilize manifolds and reduce the number of pumps. I try to get the majority of my coral from fellow reefers also. Bottom line is reef keeping is a luxury, IMO, Don't really need to justify it.:spin1:
 
Almost everything humans do is for their own benefit. Even "Saving the Planet" is for our own benefit; we wouldn't do it unless we thought we'd be losing something if we didn't. You're better off accepting this rather than trying to justify it.
But this isn't unique to humans.
 
Rather than looking at from a standpoint of all thi stuff is coming from the ocean which is so pressured right now. Ask yourself, what can I do? I see my part in the hobby as helping to bring awareness and I do my best to put as little pressure on the wild reefs as possible.

Buying captive bred, and propagated stuff is easy. Corals. snails, and fish are available that are captive raised. Rather than going to the LFS for everything look to local hobbyists. There's always people getting out and selling livestock. Much of what we need to enjoy the hobby is available locally.

Use more energy friendly technology. Buy low wattage pumps, cut back on lighting, or get more energy efficient lighting. Spread the word. Dont be afraid to talk about propagated stuff and help to promote it. Eventually we may not have the luxury of wild collected stuff. Its good that you are asking and with concern. Thats a start.
 
Its no secret that the reefkeeping hobby has made an impact on the wild reefs. What it does for the hobby is provide $$$ though. If people weren't interesting in tearing the reefs apart and sticking them in their living room, then there wouldn't be much interest in pouring money into it. We could argue that it doesn't need money to thrive, but in reality what money does it helps large companies do things like coral farming in the ocean and/or captive breeding and continued research on spawning different kinds of fish. I truly believe that this hobby brings more of an understanding and an awareness to people and in the end will help the wild reefs prosper.
 
graveyardworm said:
Rather than looking at from a standpoint of all thi stuff is coming from the ocean which is so pressured right now. Ask yourself, what can I do? I see my part in the hobby as helping to bring awareness and I do my best to put as little pressure on the wild reefs as possible.

Buying captive bred, and propagated stuff is easy. Corals. snails, and fish are available that are captive raised. Rather than going to the LFS for everything look to local hobbyists. There's always people getting out and selling livestock. Much of what we need to enjoy the hobby is available locally.

Use more energy friendly technology. Buy low wattage pumps, cut back on lighting, or get more energy efficient lighting. Spread the word. Dont be afraid to talk about propagated stuff and help to promote it. Eventually we may not have the luxury of wild collected stuff. Its good that you are asking and with concern. Thats a start.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup:
 
One aspect of the hobby that I think really helps offset our consumption of the reef is how aquaria can connect people with reef animals. Humans struggle to relate to what they have never seen or come into contact with. Reef aquaria offers many- that would otherwise have no concern for the biodiversity and beauty that coral ecosystems contain- a small window into that world.

For some, it becomes consuming and they are driven to learn more and more about reef ecology and chemistry. So it fuels learning too!

I think that our hobby can encourage a sense of awareness about our impact on the planet. (a trait that very few hobbies possess)

2+ for Graveyardworm's thoughts.
 
The education my tank has provided for my four year old daughter is priceless. She has an understanding of the ocean, sea dwelling creatures, and a sciencetific vocabulary that she otherwise would not. I would like to think that it will benefit her for the rest of her life.
 
Our industry consumes electricity, which in turn provides jobs for utility workers, privately hired electritians, and the people in china who assemble power strips.

We purchase mechanical products that fund research into new ways to keep reefs, which results in more/newer products, which we also buy. This gives engineers, retail sales people, LFS owners, and online vendors an opportunity to turn a profit.

We pay private collectors to harvest fish. They often pay poor governments for permits, pay USPS for shipping, pay cardboard and bag manufacturers for shipping supplies, all of which ends up costing us more, but does create more jobs for people.

I could go on, but you get the point. In reality, it's a pretty destructive hobby in which I have mixed feelings about even being part of. But hey, you could argue in favor of prostitution if you wanted to.
 
sedor said:
Its no secret that the reefkeeping hobby has made an impact on the wild reefs. What it does for the hobby is provide $$$ though. If people weren't interesting in tearing the reefs apart and sticking them in their living room, then there wouldn't be much interest in pouring money into it. We could argue that it doesn't need money to thrive, but in reality what money does it helps large companies do things like coral farming in the ocean and/or captive breeding and continued research on spawning different kinds of fish. I truly believe that this hobby brings more of an understanding and an awareness to people and in the end will help the wild reefs prosper.
Click to expand...
agreed. I used to have an ethical problem about 10 years ago with keeping fish because I was always losing them. But with forums like this and education being widespread, I think the hobby drives the science. If no one cared about keeping these fish and corals there wouldn't be much interest in preserving them. The race is on to understand these creatures. We seem to know so little about them in general. For example, what does xenia eat and why can it pulse? No one would care if people were not interested in keeping them. Science has to get funding from somewhere and there has to be an awareness for science to get funding. It is double edged sword. At least that is my opinion at this point in time subject to change.
I am glad you brought this up because there are many opinions on this subject and a whole lot of livestock that this subject is sensitive towards!
 
Just my 2 cents

I think you should have to take and pass a test before you can purchase reef animals. What if the profit could go to saving the reefs or something?

As humans we are going to consume everything in our paths until exhausted no matter what people try to do about it we will eventually succeed in killing ourselves off. Really who thinks we haven't already gone too far?:furious:

For me I'm setting up another reef tank after I settle down later this year but this time I'll be growing everything myself or trading with someone. I would like to believe we could rebuild the reefs but highly doubt this will ever happen. Only thing I can is not add to the destruction myself and hopefully teach others to do the same.:fish2:
 
[/QUOTE]In fact I think aliens are growing us here to harvest us and eat, so I do not care too much about "earth" I still dont litter though.. I dislike it.)[/QUOTE]

I disagree with this belief. I believe that we "humanity" are in a spherical aquarium, the sun is the halide lighting, and we are the eartha-culture hobby of aliens....and as I write this response, the aliens are discussing whether or not it is ethical to frag humans...or mariculture humans...
 
It really depends on how you look at things. Where do you get your livestock. No corals I have ever owned were wild caught (unless I was lied to, but doubt it). In a case like this the action of growing that coral in my system has done nothing to the ocean unless we want to count back the years to when the mother colony was collected. I personally think that commercial fishing and their methods hurt our marine wildlife more than this hobby does. Some will justify that with the fact that people need to eat, but the counterargument I have is that I have never went out and purchased fish to be consumed by myself because there was nothing else available. I did it because I enjoy it. This of course is in relation to the lives that most of us lead in the US and not the lives of those in small villages that may very well rely on fish and other seafood as their main form of sustenance. That said marine life is dwindling, and while wild collection for the hobby surely doesn't help, I am skeptical to believe that it hurts as much as the opposition makes us want to think. I believe that the only thing that most humans do in terms of truly wanting to preserve a species is reproduce, much like many of the other creatures do. Who knows, at the rate things are said to be going, in a couple dozen years the word reef will no longer be defined by what can be found in the wilds of the ocean but rather what is found in the living room of the collector.
 
any one group of people can put millions of dollars into protecting the reefs and another company will pollute or raise the temp of the world ,which we have no choice of and all our efforts will be put to rest .in 50 years the oceans will be at a temperature that corals cannot live in .what do we do about that ?i would say its better to harvest them now so we cab propagate them and carry on their legacy forever ,or until this whole place burns .or we can put tons of effort in saving the planet that has frozen and burned many times without our help just to have it freeze of burn anyway .it is inevitable i hope you realize 100% gonna happen !
 
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