A little confused, Who here justifies this hobby?

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If enough people follow the advice in my signature, we'd be able to stem the rising ocean level. Who knows, maybe the answer is a huge community aquarium on every streetcorner. I read somewhere, in a thread where someone new to the hobby asked if he should buy a bigger house, to be able to have a really big tank, and he was advised to simply waterproof the walls, fill his current house with saltwater and buy some SCUBA equipment. :thumbsup:
 
Versus said:
Well a small point being is that when i had written what I did I was kind of saying the hobby in general. The amount of power we use etc, eventually has a fairly large impact.

Granted there are many other things which contribute more, and another side of the debate is jobs this hobby provides (lol or how many people go bankrupt trying to start something in this hobby) etc.


I really dislike it when I get a pastachio pastichio pa.. paste.. And its not cracked open, Cause thats like 5 cents wasted.
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Well the hobby in general could certainly use improvement. It would have to start with education at the retail level, not just for the customer with the new tank but also the employees who care for and sell the animals. I certainly have a problem with large retail chains that are letting these magnificent creatures die slow death due to ineptitude or even worse, a total lack of empathy.

I wish there could be laws stopping these stores from trading in these animals.:uzi:

As far as the energy consumed in the hobby, I would have to look at both sides of the coin:

1) The energy used in the manufacture and transport of the equipment we use and the transportation of the livestock. Not much can be done about that. We as consumers will continue to buy these things and it helps drive the economy.

2) The energy we consume to run our systems. Here we can definitely make a difference.

We can:

Use low voltage pumps

Keep our tanks in warmer areas in the house so we can lessen the wattage needed to heat the water

Use LED light where we can, even better, use Solartubes to light our tanks, where possible

Get behind and raise awareness of geniuses who can change the way the world get's it's power like: http://www.josephnewman.com/

The problem is the Oil and Gas industry employs 9.2 million people and the Nuclear and Coal industries, hundreds of thousands more. This is exactly why most of you haven't heard of Joseph Newman.
 
I hope you were joking about the Joe Newman thing. I had a look at the link and it is pure quackery. As a researcher working in alternative energy I find frauds like him extremely frustrating because they tarnish the legitamate work that is going on.
 
I found about about him on the show "Beyond Tomorrow ", It was a segment they did called "Beyond Energy" I believe.

I would be very interested in knowing what kind of research you're working on, I'm guessing it's either hydrothermal or hydro-electric or wind or solar. Hey, if it's a secret, no need to tell. Most probably hydrothermal though.

God, I hope you're not researching Deep Ocean Drilling or The Best Way to Chop Down A Mountain to get at the Coal. If you are, you're part of the problem, not part of the solution. If you're not, I apologize in advance.

I guess if you're a scientist you're familiar with the positive and negative attraction of magnets. His machine works on this on a grand scale. You don't have to be interested in this, but NASA is.

How much did you learn about rare earth magnets at school? Probably not much because The Gas, Oil, Coal and Nuclear Industries want you.

Check out some of his 20 years of videos and please keep an open mind.

He doesn't spend any money on the website, he spends his money on R&d, the money he gets for the patents he holds, just can't seem to get one for this. It's not hard to see why, once again, there are almost 10 million jobs in the energy business, wouldn't be a good thing if everyone could make their own energy, would it!

kraut3253 said:
I hope you were joking about the Joe Newman thing. I had a look at the link and it is pure quackery. As a researcher working in alternative energy I find frauds like him extremely frustrating because they tarnish the legitamate work that is going on.
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kraut3253 said:
I hope you were joking about the Joe Newman thing. I had a look at the link and it is pure quackery. As a researcher working in alternative energy I find frauds like him extremely frustrating because they tarnish the legitamate work that is going on.
Click to expand...


BTW,

I would love to see what legitimate work you're researching.
 
It hasn't been long that reefkeeping has been as easy and successful as it is today. I hope that within my lifetime, we change the fishbreeding habits of many, and begin to see more successes with captive breeding so that we're at least closer to the freshwater hobby in terms of numbers, and begin to look at making inroads to helping the future of endangered reef inhabitants more secure.
 
Getting off topic

This discussion is moving more towards a political realm, and will be locked if it keeps going. Please keep it a discussion about coral reefs, and hobbyists.
 
There are a lot of interesting points here, but I will refrain from my own thoughts on what should be done and answer the question "What am I doing to justify this hobby".

To me, this hobby is a precious and fragile gift.

I feel that I justify the hobby by educating others about what I know, by supporting programs that preserve its natural resources (aquaculture, local trading, etc.), and by giving back as much as I can (propagation efforts and education).

There can be a lot of talk about what is right and wrong, but talk is nothing without action in the here and now. It is what we are doing today that makes the difference. And today I am going to justify the hobby by helping educate someone who needs a question answered and, if I’m really lucky, Ill share this gift with someone who hasn’t seen it before.
 
Right on Chad.

One of the things you can do to have a huge impact is to help the newbie's along right here. Help get them started off right. Lower mortality for the animals they intend to keep means less wild collection is necessary. I've seen it a million times here, a newbie asks can I keep such and such animals, and can I put them in my tank I just set up. Regardless of how bad of an idea it is. There's always someone who pipes up and says "I did it so its fine" without any consideration for the fact that everyone is a bit different and just cause they got away with it they dont understand that the next 10 newbies who try will likely fail. Who suffers when this happens, the animals in their care, the hobby industry, and even the wild reefs. People just need to stop and think for a minute maybe I did get away with it, but what would be the responsible answer. You're not talking to just one individual your speaking to an entire community.

A hypothetical example - You happen in on a group of people playing russian roulette, do you suggest its a bad idea, or do you think hey I tried that once and nothing happened so it'll be fine?
 
I don't believe I justify this hobby or any other hobbies I have when it comes to saving the planet. Nearly everything we do has an impact. It is making your overall impact as small as possible that makes a difference and at least acknowledging or trying to acknowledge the impact that you have on the world.

I agree with helping newbies get going. I think many issues stem from the majority of LFS that do little to promote the well being of animals or educate individuals. It makes it too easy to jump full force into the hobby.

I also would like to see more done to ensure animals are collected and transported properly. I have purchased from some places and never lost a fish, such as liveaquaria. They must be doing something right from start to finish as it seems this is a common experience for most buyers.
 
We all need to research and promote captive breeding. Even if you never breed fish, ask at your LFS and seek out captive-bred or captive-propagated livestock for the sake of making our hobby more responsible. =)
 
its a hobby, you do not need to justify it, but if you have to look at everything you do in life. Everything humans do have an impact on others in the world. unless you are willing to live in a cave and forage for roots and berries...whatever. It is a luxury but many many things in our lives are. I do try to do my best and be energy efficient in everything i do, and buy i mostly aquaculture/maiculture, but i am still going to enjoy myself and that includes keeping a reef tank. The economic agrument is very real too, if we didn't pay local villagers $20 for farmed coral they'd dredge the reef for concrete. But the best way I like to justify it..."hey at least I'm not a golfer."
 
The real long term threats to coral reefs as we know it are global warming/pollution. The harvesting of live organisms for the marine aquarium trade is far less damaging than commercial fishing. Our hobby is the environmental activist 'low hanging fruit', as we lack the mega powerful lobbying force that more damaging industries posses.

Of course, it also helps to remember that there is nothing we can do to the earth that will not be healed after enough generations.
 
graveyardworm said:
Getting off topic

This discussion is moving more towards a political realm, and will be locked if it keeps going. Please keep it a discussion about coral reefs, and hobbyists.
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Most of the participants in this thread have done a fair job of avoiding politics. To them, thank you. To the couple of others, Graveyard's suggestion is good advice. This is a worthwhile discussion, and I'd hate to have to close it.
 
Absolutely do not justify it or attempt to... Such an attempt would be ridiculous. Can you imagine the "carbon footprint" of one of our tanks. Between the electrical, water use, jet fuel burnt... It's insane if someone tells you this hobby is good for reefs, the planet, or anything other than our own enjoyment. Will I stop ? Hell no I love it too much and also don't give a ....
 
The aquarium trade has generated millions of dollars for outsiders who claimed to their big funders that they could fix it....MAMTI, MAC, IMA, RPI, HARIBON, RPA et al.
They didn't fix it.
They spent the money [ much on themselves] and ran.

If any of you guys feel guilty about being an aquarist, imagine how they must feel....knowing they they were given the full time salaries...repeat full time salaries and budgets over a decade....go thru the motions and not reform anything!

Take it easy on yourselves.
If you are guilty, you have accomplices who should share your fate in carbon based hell.

Steve
 
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