A loss for words...?

[glassbox-design]

After reading about your facility and procedures, we knew we wanted to support Live Aquaria with our business... but after spending $600 on 3 Diver's Den fish in the past year, 2 of which have died, it's left us skeptical and frustrated. Below is our experience.

First it was a P.multifasciatus. ( Placed Sept 19 # A2575814) Before ordering, we called to specifically make sure he was healthy and eating. This is a species that is notorious for not eating in captive systems and we were told he was eating extremely well. We went ahead and purchased the specimen on that premise, but when added to our system we did not experience this.

It was particularly odd because we happen to feed the exact same foods, which the specimen took no interest in. For a seasoned enthusiast it's fairly apparent when a fish has been acclimated to aquarium life or not. The fact it took no interest in any food from the water column or substrate (live, frozen, you name it) raises many flags. I would also add that on arrival the P.multifasciatus had visible crypt dots on his tail and pectoral fins.

Not one to give up on a fish, we did everything possible for it; offering a wide variety of foods, growing the algae it grazed, vitamin supplements, etc. but that was not enough to sustain it and it past after a month and a half.

Knowing the difficulty of P. multifasciatus we did not assign blame to anyone and thought we would give LA another try.

The second order was placed on April 4 (#A2608101), we purchased a C. declivis and C. Collare. Both arrived with visible damage. The C. declivis had a damaged pectoral fin and irritated mouth. The Collare had many "spots" on her from current and previous trauma and visible lympho dots. The trauma is understandable and most likely due to shipping, but the lympho is not.

It's extremely frustrating because if you look at the stock photo for the C.collare you will see the actual Divers Den specimen we purchased. The scar in the shape of a 7 is clearly seen, and on its anal fins you can clearly see white lympho dots.

What this tells us is you knew the fish was sick, however it was still listed on Divers Den and our order was processed. Since the Collare's introduction, it has introduced some type of bacteria/infection which has quickly taken the life of our Copperband Butterfly.

The pinched upper head (despite eating well), over exposed gills, lethargy, slime appearance and behavior is exactly like that of the Collare. This fish has been extremely healthy until just a few days before the Collare's death when we noted a change in behavior. Today we woke to it not swimming and laying on its side, once again just like the Collare.

So far the lone surviving Live Aquaria Fish, C. declivis, appears fine. However we fear he may soon suffer the same fate as the Copperband and Collare.

I am not sure what I am asking for, I am simply sharing our frustration with you as we are extremely saddened with our losses. At this point I don't know if anything can be done about it.... and I am not sure if we would ever place another order from Live Aquaria in the future

I feel as though we have given Live Aquaria the benefit of the doubt, tried another Diver's Den purchase only to be proved wrong once again.

 

[dfs/la2]

glassbox-design,

We have spoke to the staff at our Aquaculture Coral & Marine Life Facility and found that the Paracentropyge multifasciatus was eating and healthy when it left our facility. The behavior of each fish is recorded at every feeding by our staff and if a particular fish is not eating, the quarantine period of that particular specimen is extended until it is eating heartily again. We are sorry that the fish did not eat in your quarantine system.

We are familiar with Lymphocystis, Lympho or otherwise known as Cauliflower Disease. This disease is common in marine Angelfish and Butterflyfish. The symptoms of this disease are bleeding, wounds, cysts, rubbing on objects and patches. If any of the fish in our facility displays symptoms of disease it is further quarantined and if needed medicated. This fish did not display these symptoms prior to shipping and was checked before being packaged for shipment.

We have credited your customer file for the Pakistan Butterflyfish and the Paracentropyge multifasciatus from your previous orders. We are very sorry that these fish did not survive.

If we can be further assistance please contact us.

Joyce F.
LiveAquaria
Drs. Foster & Smith

 

[mcliffy2]

I'll chime in here because glassbox-design is a guy who will not get into a message board argument. If I know him, he has said what he will say.

Let me say first, I've personally had nothing but good experiences with DFS/LA, and thus am hoping glassbox-design's experience is the exception and not the norm.

There was one thing in your response that troubled me, however. You state:

This fish did not display these symptoms prior to shipping and was checked before being packaged for shipment.

Yet as Eric posted, and LA's OWN PICTURE shows, the fish clearly did have lympho when it shipped. What bothers me here is that you are ignoring the strong evidence that this fish was not propertly inspected and shipped out with a disease.

As someone who would like to purchase from LA in the future, I think all that is being asked is an acknowledgement that this one slipped through the cracks. Without such an acknowledgement, we have no reason to believe the problem will be addressed. If however, it is acknowledged, this demonstrates that LA is committed to its stated objective of delivering healthy livestock, and will see to it that glassbox-design's experience was a one-time mistake.

As was once told me: everyone makes mistakes, its how you deal with those mistakes that shows your true character....

 

[DFS/LA1]

Mcliffy2,

Thank you for your reply. Our primary concern is for the health of the livestock that we send out and we also always strive to provide the best possible customer service. If glassbox-design would like to discuss their shipment further we would be happy to do so and encourage them to PM us.

Russ Detert
Live Aquaria
Drs. Foster and Smith

 

[aquaticvet1]

Kevin is not here to reply so I will do the best I can.

Yes we do make mistakes and no they are not a one time deal. Although I sincerely apologize, this will not be our last mistake and it was not our first. As with any good human run company, we do make and admit errors and we do offer a guarantee . I feel almost all deaths during the 14 day warranty are our fault, which is why we have a guarantee.

Sometimes, as was the case here, we simply use bad judgement, a human error. I apologize for that, but with 600 employees filling over 10,000 orders per day, of which several hundred are livestock, we will make more.

Although there is no question that our livestock is the healthiest available, not every specimen that we have shipped has been perfect, we have made mistakes and that appears to be the case here. We are dealing with human judgement and live animals which is less than perfect. Diseases and human errors will occur, our goal is to minimize that risk for our customer, we cannot eliminate it. If you are looking for a mistake free company , I would suggest ordering from someone other than Drs. Foster and Smith and LiveAquaria.com. We work hard yet we do make mistakes, I am sorry.

Thank you, Race Foster, D.V.M.

 

[aquaticvet1]

As a final thought and an end to this thread, I want to apologize one more time to the involved customers, I am sorry.

I also want to thank Kevin and all of my 600+ wonderful employees for the job they do. Yes, they make some mistakes (just as I do) but with almost 11,000 transactions every day and an "error" rate of less than 1/4 of 1%, they have won every customer service award known to exist in the direct marketing world. A little reading on the internet and our website will reveal these awards of World Class Customer Service from world class employees.

I truly have the very best employees anyone could hope for and I think they feel the same of the customers they serve. Thank you guys for 25 great years of working together, your loyalty is recognized and appreciated. Correct your mistakes, apologize when you make one and continue giving Award Winning customer service. That is all I could ever ask.

Race

 

[mcliffy2]

aquaticvet1 - thanks for the sincere response, it is appreciated.

 

[glassbox-design]

Hi Race,

I appreciate you taking the time to chime in here.

As Mcliffy stated, acknowledgment was all we were looking for; particularly after the initial response and the introduction of what looks to have been a gill fluke that took the life of one of our long term established fish.

For most fish, we do quarantine which would have prevented this issue, but due to the dietary needs and small size of the Collare we added it directly to our SPS tank to feed on polyps of our Acroporas.

Even in hindsight I feel this was the right call, it's just unfortunate the way it turned out.

We're not looking for an error free company, just one that stands by their products and actions as you've done here. There are very few companies of your size where the owner takes the time to resolve a situation like this. From your perspective it's a $30 credit... Your brief time put in here is of more value :lol:

Thanks again Race.

 

[aquaticvet1]

Thank you guys .

If Kevin or the crew can ever be of assistance please do not hesitate to contact them. It is not necessary to order as I am sure many of you support your LFS,---- and I encourage that. We are just as happy suppling information as we are filling orders. We take pride in both.

Thank you, Race