This question might be answered already but if there is atoxin release in the tank what will take it out? Will it be skimmed out or will carbon absorb it? For those of you who prop zoa's and paly's what do you use for defense. I read somewhere that a guy set up a frag tank with a few thousand zoa's and the water evaporation contained toxin and when exposed to the evap. the guy had a respiratory reaction and also became sick from the exposure. So what do you farmers use as defense?
A warning about toxicity. A MUST read.
- Thread starter musicsmaker
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anything produced by an animal is organic, and therefore, can be skimmed out. I don't know it carbon directly would absorb it, but since it can absorb other organic compounds, it may be able to with the zoos as well. However, carbon is always plugged with organics within a few days...
I have to keep windows open in my house anyway, otherwise there isn't enough fresh o2 in the house and my tank's pH drops, so I don't worry about it. I would imagine any vent system used to handle evap / humidity could work for this as well.
I never used to use anything... just washed my hands after. But I had some yellow polyps "bleed" a yellow tincture that got on the paper towel I blotted them dry with and I saw it on my hands too. Freaked out and washed immediately. From now on, I'll retrieve with my hands, then once I have them out of the tank, I'll use gloves.
I have to keep windows open in my house anyway, otherwise there isn't enough fresh o2 in the house and my tank's pH drops, so I don't worry about it. I would imagine any vent system used to handle evap / humidity could work for this as well.
I never used to use anything... just washed my hands after. But I had some yellow polyps "bleed" a yellow tincture that got on the paper towel I blotted them dry with and I saw it on my hands too. Freaked out and washed immediately. From now on, I'll retrieve with my hands, then once I have them out of the tank, I'll use gloves.
I don't know if my questions was already answered, but how would I know if I am affected? I have some "zoo" 's and have been fiddling in my tank without gloves. Man, I am worried now as I have a cut on my hand, maybe more then one. Can symptoms start later or is it immediate.
I am sorry if I am sounding naïve. Gloves at all times from now on. I guess it was pretty stupid of me to go in there bare handed to begin with.
I thought this tank was gonna help relax me. Guess not. lol
I am sorry if I am sounding naïve. Gloves at all times from now on. I guess it was pretty stupid of me to go in there bare handed to begin with.
I thought this tank was gonna help relax me. Guess not. lol
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sacremon
New member
From the article that I linked, the person who became exposed from zoanthids first had swelling, tingling and numbness around the cut and then up the arm, followed by general weakness and dizziness, with some heart problems. The heart appears to be the target organ in terms of acute toxicity.
Given the structure of the compound, carbon might filter it out, but I'm not positive. Carbon works best on compounds that have aromatic rings, but there don't appear to be any in palytoxin. Same for skimming. It is listed as being very soluble in water, which would make it unlikely to be skimmed away.
I've been trying to find something that tells what color it is, without success at present. There are elements of the structure that would lead me to believe that it is not colorless, but that's about all I could say.
Given the structure of the compound, carbon might filter it out, but I'm not positive. Carbon works best on compounds that have aromatic rings, but there don't appear to be any in palytoxin. Same for skimming. It is listed as being very soluble in water, which would make it unlikely to be skimmed away.
I've been trying to find something that tells what color it is, without success at present. There are elements of the structure that would lead me to believe that it is not colorless, but that's about all I could say.
sacremon so is it our opinion that the toxin cant be removed by a protein skimmer. I can see the logic that 32flavors has about being organic, but is the toxin organic. I read a lot about the toxin being present and the side affects and so on, but no one really has a solution, besides 32flavors, as to how to remove them from the tank. I could care less about it being in the water, i care about it getting in the air through evaporation and irritating the respiratory system.
sacremon
New member
It is organic, but you have to understand how skimmers work, that they simply don't remove everything organic. They remove hydrophobic materials, which are typically organic. However, if the organic is hydrophilic, the skimmer will not remove it. I would not expect a skimmer to remove simple sugars or alcohols, as they are very soluble in water. According to the literature, palytoxin is very soluble in water, so I would not expect a skimmer to remove it.
Palytoxin is not going to evaporate into the air. It could be aspirated/sprayed into the air and expose someone that way or as a dust from water that contained it evaporating entirely, but it won't simply go into the air via evaporation.
Palytoxin is not going to evaporate into the air. It could be aspirated/sprayed into the air and expose someone that way or as a dust from water that contained it evaporating entirely, but it won't simply go into the air via evaporation.
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Larah
New member
"No Reef-Love if you've got no Reef-Glove"
That is Hilarious! and I seriously think that you should contact Mythbusters and maybe they'll do a show on Zoanthid poision.
Honestly I truly think that one should always have respect for the creatures in their tanks. And I can attest that Zoanthids do have some poisionous qualoities. I have had their mucus in open wounds before ( hang nails, paper cuts, rough broken skin etc) and it does have a slight burning sensation and then my fingers or whatever part of my hand that got the toxin, swelled and felt sort of sore. But no death or dismemberment has occured! Though I won't rule it out.
Gloves are a good idea. I'm just so lazy......
That is Hilarious! and I seriously think that you should contact Mythbusters and maybe they'll do a show on Zoanthid poision.
Honestly I truly think that one should always have respect for the creatures in their tanks. And I can attest that Zoanthids do have some poisionous qualoities. I have had their mucus in open wounds before ( hang nails, paper cuts, rough broken skin etc) and it does have a slight burning sensation and then my fingers or whatever part of my hand that got the toxin, swelled and felt sort of sore. But no death or dismemberment has occured! Though I won't rule it out.
Gloves are a good idea. I'm just so lazy......
NanoCube-boy
New member
to some certain extend, I think only certain people with severe health condition should becareful because their health is at bad state that little things can trgger them to a near life or death situation.
I would be very careful around them, I just have to make sure I don't have cuts.
I would be very careful around them, I just have to make sure I don't have cuts.
a little safety never hurt after all everyone reacts differently to bee stings.. why would this be any different. And just because you have a mild reaction to a toxin, what ever it may be, does not mean that the next time you are exposed to said toxin the reaction might be different. I would rather be safe than to find out the hard way with a $5000 trip, via ambulance, to the er. Just some food for thought.
I was wearing gloves and tore a frag overflowing with Palys off a rock to take to a frag swap.
I accidentally brushed the glove against my lip wiping my forehead with my arm.
At first I thought maybe I had little cuts on my lip and the salt water was making it burn.
Then it went into my mouth.
It tasted different- I knew right away what had happened. My whole mouth started to feel a little funny. And then the back of my throat. I did not want to drink anything acidic, like OJ so I tried a little milk.
My left eye watered for an hour and it burned and I swallowed and swallowed and it finally faded away about an hour and a half later.
I accidentally brushed the glove against my lip wiping my forehead with my arm.
At first I thought maybe I had little cuts on my lip and the salt water was making it burn.
Then it went into my mouth.
It tasted different- I knew right away what had happened. My whole mouth started to feel a little funny. And then the back of my throat. I did not want to drink anything acidic, like OJ so I tried a little milk.
My left eye watered for an hour and it burned and I swallowed and swallowed and it finally faded away about an hour and a half later.
NanoCube-boy
New member
scary............
dor
New member
I have read most this thread but not all, anyway not a both.
I can confirm that they are toxic/ produce toxins. yesterday I returned from the shop with a small Zoa, I used gloves and glasses to frag the zoa in half by snapping it, washed it and placed one bit in each of my tanks. Removed gloves carefully and wash everything anyway. All was well until...about an hour later when while setting the dinner table in the same room as the tank I noticed a brown splash up the wall, I thought what the hell is that?? Now i have a son who really likes his soya sauce and has been know to flick it every where, well needless to say he was questioned and to settle it I tasted the liquid on the wall not once but twice just to be sure. Anyway as suspected it tasted like soya sauce and the lad got the blame. The wife then pointed out that nobody had had soya sauce in the last week?? Then it clicked...**** the zoa's had squirt up the wall and I'd just tasted it ****... started washing mouth out under a running tap but still within minutes My tongue went numb and then tingling, started the feel hot, legs and arms started to feel odd etc, i just dialled 999 for help, told them what I had done with correct id etc, within minutes the ambalance was there whisking me off to the local hospital with a 150+ pulse, 160/90 blood pressure and a rised temp, they checked with the posion unit etc and said that it was a good job it had been on the wall for a while as it would have lost alot of it strength during that time.
All i can tell you is that it was a hell of a trip and not to be repeated. Back home now a feeling fine
Cheers DoR
I can confirm that they are toxic/ produce toxins. yesterday I returned from the shop with a small Zoa, I used gloves and glasses to frag the zoa in half by snapping it, washed it and placed one bit in each of my tanks. Removed gloves carefully and wash everything anyway. All was well until...about an hour later when while setting the dinner table in the same room as the tank I noticed a brown splash up the wall, I thought what the hell is that?? Now i have a son who really likes his soya sauce and has been know to flick it every where, well needless to say he was questioned and to settle it I tasted the liquid on the wall not once but twice just to be sure. Anyway as suspected it tasted like soya sauce and the lad got the blame. The wife then pointed out that nobody had had soya sauce in the last week?? Then it clicked...**** the zoa's had squirt up the wall and I'd just tasted it ****... started washing mouth out under a running tap but still within minutes My tongue went numb and then tingling, started the feel hot, legs and arms started to feel odd etc, i just dialled 999 for help, told them what I had done with correct id etc, within minutes the ambalance was there whisking me off to the local hospital with a 150+ pulse, 160/90 blood pressure and a rised temp, they checked with the posion unit etc and said that it was a good job it had been on the wall for a while as it would have lost alot of it strength during that time.
All i can tell you is that it was a hell of a trip and not to be repeated. Back home now a feeling fine
Cheers DoR
scuba guy ron
New member
i have been in contact alot with zoas many times with cuts on my hand(since im always biting my nails...i know bad habit) and have never had any ill effects.
NanoCube-boy
New member
That is one scary story man, what have spook me the most are the heart rate and leg and arm part because I have cardiac condition and if I'm your situation, then it would be pretty deadly. Glad you are okay man because this corals is pretty dangerous to handle.
Meisen
Premium Member
I know its been brought up before but there also may be some more complexity to which species have this toxin. Is it a reaction to being preyed upon (or fragged )? Is this something they systhesize from compounds in their natural food? Do different species have different compounds or are they all carrying varying amounts of the same toxin, anywhere from none to deadly? I guess I am going to continue to be cautious when I frag my palys and zoas.
)? Is this something they systhesize from compounds in their natural food? Do different species have different compounds or are they all carrying varying amounts of the same toxin, anywhere from none to deadly? I guess I am going to continue to be cautious when I frag my palys and zoas.Similar threads
