A warning about toxicity. A MUST read.

Latex the best bet?

Latex the best bet?

I read a couple places that normal latex doesn't really cut it when your talking about these toxins. I recently switched to Nitrile gloves...I think I got them at Lowes...Anyone hear about the latex debate...or am I just crazy?
 
Stixbaraca said:
I read a couple places that normal latex doesn't really cut it when your talking about these toxins. I recently switched to Nitrile gloves...I think I got them at Lowes...Anyone hear about the latex debate...or am I just crazy?
First I've heard of it. Was this recently?
 
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A friend had mentioned it to me, and i just spent a little time on google. Looks like even some healthcare/medical companies are switching too
 
luvtolean said:
The daddy long leg spider also has a very potent toxin, but it's not able to deliver it to humans, only its prey. I'm guessing however a Zoo is set up to utilize the toxin, means it normally can't hurt a human.


Just want to chime in and say this is 100% false. There are two forms of *daddy long legs*. One of them has no toxin whatso ever and the other is harmless.
 
also.......dont they use Supper Glue during surgery?.....Im pretty sure it has been used in surgical procedures and the patient didnt die........I have on numerous times used super glue to seal a cut on my finger and im still here typing.......minus a finger!...lol
 
zoo poisoning

zoo poisoning

I have gotten zoanthid juice in my eye and developed the nastiest eye infection i've ever had, my actual eye ball puffed up and hurt like hell and took weeks to get rid of. The second time it happened i got treated faster and the infection only lasted a few days. I got protopalythoa in a razor accident while fragging. I got blood poisoning in one day. It took 4 hours for the red line to go from my wrist to my innner armpit. I had to get IV antibiotics pronto. I work in a retail store and we frag and farm too so i'm always around this and other corals. If i get coral juices in my mouth, nose or eyes (don't ask) i get a sort of high, or sick depends on the coral. Leathers and mushrooms are pretty bad. And inhaling motnipora or acropora dremmel dust has a slight effect. I strongly suggest dust masks and eye protection.
 
well I think it's safe to say i'll never buy zooanthid as long as I live, for i have two dogs and 3 cats who love to hang around my aquarium. nothing is worth buying that could potentially harm a family member

oh and he's right, daddy long legs are about as harmful as a piece of bread ;)
 
It would be wise to keep dogs and cats from putting ANY reef creatures in their mouth. I don't imagine chewing on an acro frag would do much good for Rover or Muffins either. :D
 
Originally posted by RLiu818 although, tests have revealed taht the palytoxin is in fact the most powerful toxin in the world, zoos actually do not seem that dangerous.[/B]
Just remember that it is the most powerful ORGANIC toxin. Radioactive waste and dioxin are MUCH more dangerous.
 
Nagel said:
I also did a search on google for "palytoxin" and had to look at the cached sites to see the data, but here are some quotes:

"Palytoxin acts at the cell membranes to make them permeable to cations - positively charged ions, typically sodium, potassium, and calcium. Many functions of cells depend upon controlling the flow of these ions in and out of the cell, so disrupting this traffic is very dangerous.

At the physiological level, the most sensitive target is the myocardium, or muscular component of the heart, and the primary effect is vasoconstriction or rapid narrowing of blood vessels in the heart and in the lungs. Another effect is hemolysis, or the destruction of the red blood cells. These three effects taken together cut off the oxygen supply and the victim suffocates. "


First off, if cell membranes become more permeable to cations (esp. potassium and calcium) this will cause a depolarization of the cell membrane, which leads to action potentials. These action potentials which are normally generated in specialized cells in the heart and then propogate throughout the myocardium cause the rhythmical beating. Only if the action potentials are generated in one locus is the heart coordinated. If, however, the entire myocardium were to be depoarized, this would more than likely lead to an arrhythmia, because instead of the specialized cells coordinating beating, any and every part of the heart would be generating action potentials. So, if this toxin works as quoted, you would die of a heart attack long before the vacoconstriction and hypoxia kill you.

Second, it is not the most lethal organic compound. Botulinum toxin (yes, botox) is the most powerful toxin. 1ug of the type A toxin is lethal in humans. Looking through my notes, I found a reporting of 5x10^9 mouse LD50/mg. I remember asking the professor who gave the lecture to clarify, because I couldn't believe the number could be true. It means that if 1 mg could be divided up evenly into 5 BILLION mice, half of that population would die. This would give an LD50 in mice at about .5pg.

Lastly, we have to remember that the skin does an awfully good job of stopping most compounds from entering. So, yes, if you were to inject Palytoxin or Botulinum toxin directly into your arteries, then I bet it would be quite lethal. In low concentrations on the surface of the skin, I doubt would do much of anything!

Iââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢m sorry for the rant, but I donââ"šÂ¬Ã¢"žÂ¢t like seeing such an abuse of science and this was really just the tip of the criticism I had for some of the posts in this thread. I could write a novel for this!

Be careful when doing a google search, anyone can post anything (and this is proof of that :P), but it certainly doesn't make it true!
 
Yup, anybody can post anything on the internet. This includes people who think they are experts before they are even out of school.
 
dpnshnks

First off, look at your hands. Got cuts? If you don't, then I wonder if you own a tank or work on it. I am constantly getting small cuts working in my tanks.. Guess what? Those cuts defeat the defense of your skin...

Second, it is ONE of the most powerful naturally occurring toxins.. I don't see people getting palytoxin shots, but I do see botox shots..

Finally, its a word of caution to the newbies who don't know at all. KNOWING is half the battle.. Should I just let people unknowingly handle these things without realizing the potential behind them? I mean, did you even KNOW zoanthids and palythoa polyps have a toxin before you read this thread? Its for information. My google sources weren't "www.joedontknowjack.com" they were university and medical sites.. I trust the validity of their information..

Making a statement to warn people of the potential dangers in their tanks is not bad, nor an abuse of science. I never said my words were law, but TOO MANY people do NOT realize that these things have some serious toxic potential if they are mishandled. I know MANY people who have been poisoned because they didn't know, or weren't careful.. It may not have killed them, but do I need a dead reefer to have a reason to post a caution note?
 
Some ramblings from yet another reefer.

Back in the 70's I was a Nuke, and have handled nuclear materials and am quite happy to have been trained and exposed to same. The "nice" thing about radioisotopes is that they are DETECTABLE so when you screwed up and inadvertently actually contacted and subsequently SPREAD the contamination, a meter could alert you to it.

Now, from the things I have read (between the lines and on the lines) about this toxin/zoos in general basically says:
1. Not all polyps carry it
2. It may be (like nudibranchs) some that eat a particular dinoflagellate store the toxin ORIGINALLY made in the dino.
3. All soft corals practice some form of chem warfare for turf.

So, with my personal experience (I suspect having lightly poisoned myself a time or two with SOMETHING) I now wear gloves when fragging zoos, or say when a rock crushes a few and the brown/black juice squirts into the tank.

I still start sipons in the old fashioned way, I just don't stick the end in a zoo colony first.

The real danger is in NOT KNOWING and NOT being able to DETECT when a particular organism is a potential threat. With a .5 microgram threshold for fatality, I will NOT eat before washing my hands, and learned with the nuke stuff that you don't SMOKE before washing up either as the cigarette goes in/out of the mouth wayyy to often and could easily migrate the toxin orally.

Use realistic precautions.
 
Stbringer said:
I still start sipons in the old fashioned way, I just don't stick the end in a zoo colony first.

tsk tsk tsk ;)

Joing the new wave :) Use your powerhead to start the siphon. first, no chance of drinking "the juice", and second, you don't end up with a mouthful of SW...

Just a tip :)
 
Re: zoo poisoning

Re: zoo poisoning

justincognito said:
I have gotten zoanthid juice in my eye and developed the nastiest eye infection i've ever had, my actual eye ball puffed up and hurt like hell and took weeks to get rid of. The second time it happened i got treated faster and the infection only lasted a few days. I got protopalythoa in a razor accident while fragging. I got blood poisoning in one day. It took 4 hours for the red line to go from my wrist to my innner armpit. I had to get IV antibiotics pronto. I work in a retail store and we frag and farm too so i'm always around this and other corals. If i get coral juices in my mouth, nose or eyes (don't ask) i get a sort of high, or sick depends on the coral. Leathers and mushrooms are pretty bad. And inhaling motnipora or acropora dremmel dust has a slight effect. I strongly suggest dust masks and eye protection.

The same exact thing happend to me.
 
Hey , Im no expert on toxins and Im already doomed to an early death just by being in the motor trade but whenever I have to put my hands in the tank ( I always have sores over my hands from having dermititis from the trade and / or the tank ) they itch like crazy go red and swell up ! I used to think it was a reaction from the salt but the more I read this thread the more I wonder as I have a few different colonies of zoos and many other corals in the tank . Sometimes it is worse than others but when Im in direct contact with zoos or corals ie fragging or moving it is generally worse . My message to the lucky ones who dont seem affected is please be carefull as protective gloves cost nothing compared to the value of our lives .
 
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