A warning about toxicity. A MUST read.

[mad mechanic reefer]

Its the carcinogenic stuff in engine oil , fuel , exhaust fumes etc all stuff that is fine in small doses but prolonged or repeated contact can cause cancer or an early death which is why the motor trade has one of the top mortality rates .

Cheerio now Im off to get measured up for my box

 

[herp_house]

well i halfass read this, i only read the dog thread and one page but i figured i would share me experiance. about a month or so iago i was re-aranging my reef for a while and cuts and scrapes happen, i fraged some zoos and other stuff but then when i got done i went to sleep. i woke up in the morning sicker than i have ever been in my life. i havent puked in 6 or so years and i seriusly puked 25 times that day. i layed around all day (from 6 a.m. to aroung 8 p.m.) when my girlfriend got home and told me that we are going to the hospital because there has got to be somthing seriously wrong. well we were at the hospital for around 4 hours while they filled me up with about 2 liters of fluids through i.v. and some other stuff. i was hurtimg so bad i couldent bend in any direction it hurt to move my legs or lean to the side or stand up and sit down. When i wnt home i still felt horrible then i finally went to sleep. i woke up the next day and puked 1 or 2 more times and then that was over with. then i was totaly sore for a week to a week and a half afterwords. i had to seriously lift up my legs gust to get them into the car that how under powerd i was and how painfull it was. for a whole week at least i had to have people help he standup and sit down and just do whatever. the doctor told me it was some sort of poison/toxin but it didnt seem like saminila or food poisoning and no i know exactly what it was........man that was hell. from now on i am going to use gloves!!!!!

 

[Azgasser]

dpnshnks

Second, it is ONE of the most powerful naturally occurring toxins.. I don't see people getting palytoxin shots, but I do see botox shots..

This is because botulinum toxin works at the neuromuscular junction synapse by cleaving a protien that aids in neural transmission. Palytoxin works through a different mechanism. Either way, both can be leathal when administered in the wrong dosage or method. Plus, clostridium bacteria are a hell of a lot easier to grow than these darn Zoo's.

 

[supaboy1981]

I actually got some frags yesterday from a member here. he went on attempting to pull them apart with his bare hands emitting all kinds of mucus and juice everywhere. In the middle of this he looks at me and goes "ohh you gatta be carefull with these things, their toxic". If reefcentral isnt on a messed up time system he just posted a bit ago and is apperantly online right now.

Today I was arranging them cause I didnt glue them to anything and I remember I have a few cuts on my hands and I was handling them and moving them around. I remember another reefer talking about a metallic taste in his mouth when fragging and it got my brain working. I have spent the last 1 -2 hours reading about the signs of becoming intoxicated by these guys and during that time my mind has played mean tricks on me from tingling in my body seeing colors. I chaulk that up to being pumped up on adrenaline. After reading this I got scared, relieved, and scared again only to be relieved once more. I dunno if the particular ones I got are toxic at all but I am probably gonne get some gloves from the vet just to be on the safe side.

 

[reefkeeper59]

Intersting fact

On Thursday May 5th I was fragging a large colony of Protopalythoa. I have done this many times before, however this time the colony I was working on was very heavly populated and very dense. There wasn't a lot of room between the polyps to snip. I tried to make my cuts as close to the center (between) of polyps as possible, but cut a few polyps open. I noticed the fluid in them got on my fingers. Being aware of the palitoxin, I rinsed my fingers in a cup of fresh water than I had used early as a dip.

About another 5-10 minutes goes by and I cut another Protopalythoa clump then pulled apart the last connected piece. I ripped two in half and a large amount of fluid or water came out again. This time it got on my right thumb where I had a small cut. Within about 2 or 3 minutes, my left hand started trembling and then the right hand, I'm getting dizzy and feel like I'm going to pass out. Little short of breath. I thought about waking my girl friend and telling her to get ready to take me to the hospital.

I went to the kitchen rinsed my hands and went back to tank stood there for a few minutes and felt ok.

I just had a total physical on Mar 24th.Everthing ok except cholesterol.

Not sure if that was from the Protopalythoa, but it hasn't happened since.

Any idea?

 

[xacttech]

I never wear gloves (soon to change) and have felt the effects of Zoos. Any time I move around my colonies, or attempt to frag a certain colony, my chest gets tight, and I have shortness of breath. It's never lasted more than about 15 minutes, and has never been enough to really scare me, but now I'm reconsidering my disregard for concern.

I've also had a case of what I thought was food poisoning, which now makes me second guess that. I haven't vomited in several years (over 4) and one day out of the blue (don't remember my tank tasks for the day) I get sick, and start throwing up. I chalk it up to food poisoning, but I'm fairly new to the hobby, and it was around the time of a tanks swap.

I also have had incidents where my arm felt numb for almost a full day, just kind of achy, throbby and numb. I love zoos, guess it's time for gloves.

 

[musicsmaker]

If you are getting those sensations and they seem associated with tank maintenance, you should get you some gloves. Don't assume that it is the zoanthids, rather be suspicious of the whole tank. All, or least most, corals have toxins.

 

[rsteagall]

Has anyone posted a link to a list of the ones that are the most toxic or what is the toxicity of each type of zoa?

 

[belikej]

Poison arrow frogs are not poisonous in captivity because their poison comes from a diet realized only in the wild. I wonder if the same, or a similar dependancy is true of zooanthids? Or possibly only certain types carry the toxin.

As many people have reported ill effects from working with zoas as those who have reported none. Thats a key point.

I think this warrants a task which should be enjoyable for most reefkeepers: Those who have experienced ill effects should list the zoas they were working with when the side effects happened.


We can cross reference them with people who have not had side effects and possibly create an unofficial list of toxic zoas.

 

[DgenR8]

Just how allergic you are to a particular "toxin" could have everything to do with why some people have problems, and some people not.
Zoas could all be poisonous, just not all reefkeepers are susceptible.

 

[gio17vani]

Hmm maybe I'm immune, stupid, lucky, or some combination because I have bare handed my zoos everytime I got them, shipped them, or moved them and have never felt the least bit affected. Will be using gloves now though.

 

[itsme123]

Just also like to report my experiences for the record. I've also had symptoms described herp_house and xacttech. I never feel any nausea enough to make me throw up (hate throwing up), but about a month ago, I got what I thought was either food poisoning or a mind flu. But I never felt like that before. My whole body ached, I was nausiated (sp) for about 2 days and had severe head ache for about 3 days. The whole episode lasted for about 3-4 days. After the episode, I started to think that I was probabbly poisoned by something and not the usual food borne illness or flu. It just had different symptoms then what I usually associate with "regular" illness.

Then just yesterday, I pull a rock out which was attached to a colony of zoo and I experienced (similar) what reefkeeper59 experience. About 30 seconds after I pull the rock breaking the zoo colony apart, I started to feel shorness of breath, numbness across my face, tunnel vision (slight), wanting to pass out and general panic. I rushed to the sink and washed my hands off with hot water and soap. Then the feeling went away after about 10 minutes or so. Was ready to tell my wife to take me the hospital or call 911 if I pass out.

All this (both events) while wearing disposible wrist length nitrile gloves (the blue ones) and knowing the risk involved with zoos. Always aware of cuts on my hands/arms and have avoided putting hands in my tank if I have them. Also all cuts and wounds are always sealed up with Band Aid Liquid Bandage if I had to stick my hands in. I've had reef tanks for well over 3+ years and there is not 1 week (minimum) where I don't go in for something. BUT, I've only started to keep zoos since about 9 month ago.

Off to order some shoulder length gloves......

BTW, I am also religeous about washing my hands after touching my tank.

 

[CrazyLionfish]

Ahh this is freaking me out. And to tell you the trush I don't believe it. I didn't read all 7 pgs because I have to leave soon, but I've never heard any thing like this before. I handled my two new zoo frags by hand, as did the owner of them at the frag swap, as did the guy taht bagged them with oxygen. I didn't feel anything that I know of. How is it released? I touched them a lot when I first put them in the tank adn didn't feel again, I don't get it.

 

[CrazyLionfish]

I hate to say that I can't believe it is all. All it is, is people saying "i think i got this toxin from my zoos" and then someone else saying "i don't think you did". No proof or experiments. Someone go do a highly technological experiment on them and then post the facts PLEASE

 

[itsme123]

Gotta remember, not all zoos and palys contain the toxin. Plus you have to factor in different sensitivity levels of different inidviduals to the different levels of toxins. Granted, if you have a gaping wound and is rubbing the wound with zoo juice with paly toxin, then you are gonna die. But the fact of the matter is that some zoos and palys DO contain the toxin, and extreme caution needs to be taken. Better to be safe then sorry.

BTW, I really thought I was going to die when I felt weird, no jokes. Maybe it was not the zoos, but what ever it was, it was in the tank.

 

[CrazyLionfish]

whats a paly? a type of polyp?

 

[Nagel]

Palythoa polyp or Protopalythoa polyp.. The more common ones to contain the toxin.. Zoanthids are much less common to contain the toxin..

We're not telling you to scare you, we just want people to take the proper precautions..

 

[pco1988]

sorry for your loss...i also have two dogs and i put my hands in my tanks all the time where there are five zoo colonies...i think i'll be more careful now...

 

[CrazyLionfish]

I still don't believe it haha. After 7 pgs of a thread, and really no proof, I dunno! Someone do an experiment

 

[Nagel]

I have some protopalythoas that I've felt the effects of Crazylionfish.. Shall I make you a Palythoa milkshake to test it out?

Your choice to believe or not. Till you have felt the effects (and I didn't for a number of years), you really don't know, do ya?