About to treat for Red Bugs. What do I need to know?

[LobsterOfJustice]

Hello everyone,

The time has come. I've been living with the bugs for a few months now, but I've decided the treatment can't wait any longer. A long time ago I read all of the threads, but I havent seen them in a while. I am going to outline my procedures, I want to know if this should work well, and if you would change anything. I am basically looking for input for others who have gone through this.

I have the Interceptor crushed and weighed out in portions to treat 10g. I was using this for a dip for all incoming frags, ended up with the bugs anyway. My total system volume is somewhere around 120-130 gallons. I plan on slightly overdosing, putting in enough for 150 gallons. For the dip on incoming corals I used the medicine at 2X strength (10g worth in a 5g bucket).

I have removed all of my hermit crabs and one shrimp, and will not treat until I remove my other shrimp. I have two colonies which have acro crabs in them, right before treating I will remove the colonies (they are not encrusted down) and flick the crabs off into the 10g holding my shrimp and hermits.

I have also taken some rock out of my fuge and put it in with the removed crabs and shrimp. I will not treat this rock and will leave it in the QT for about 2 weeks, so all red bugs should die but hopefully I will be able to reintroduce some pods back into the tank.

I have heard that snails, cucumbers, and urchins will be fine, can anyone confirm?

How long should I leave the interceptor in the system. I think the original time was 6 hours than a waterchange and carbon, but I know others have left it in longer. Would I be fine doing it overnight, or for 24 hours? Will I see any benefit from this? I am worried because people say that the pods will come back. I figure if the pods can come back, so can the red bugs. I only want to treat once, but will treat multiple times if nessecary.

Anything I'm, forgetting?

 

[cward]

I followed Dustins directions to the tee and did three doses. This has been almost a year and I haven't had them come back yet. I do have a healthy pod population now.

 

[Qwiv]

Here is the best and most current info

http://www.ericborneman.com/Tegastes-content/Tegastes index.html

PS. The dip doesn't really work. Interceptor takes time to kill the buggers, not really dose. I dip all corals in Lugols according to the treatment listed in the web page I posted. You will see the redbugs using this treatment. If they are present, you need to treat the coral in quarantine using the full treatment. A dip might kill 99% of them, but the other 1% will just breed and they will come back.

PSS It is really worth it to take the corals out, even though it is a pain. Just call it a tank tune up.

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

Thanks for the link. According to the link, it is better to leave the medication in for longer than 6 hours. I will leave it in for at least 12.

The "dip" i did for incoming corals was 2x strength for 6 hours.

Thanks for the suggestion to remove all the corals, but I decided long ago I was going to treat the tank and not remove the corals. For the last year and a half I have slowly watched these corals begin to grow and encrust and I'm not willing to rip them up now. I would rather not treat the tank than take all the corals out at this point. Most of the rock would need to be treated anyway as it has encrusted coral on it so I'm not really saving anything.

I will be taking the tank down due to a move in less than a year and I was planning to wait until then, but I think that will just complicate the move even more. Plus I'm not sure some of my frags can deal with the bugs much longer. I will treat the tank and if they end up coming back I will remove all the corals and treat them separately when I have them removed anyway for the move.

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

Is this correct?

DOSE: .05g / 20 gallons

140 gallons (system vol) / 20 = 7

7 x .05 = .35g or 35mg to treat 140 gallons of water

 

[Qwiv]

Your suppose to treat the actual water volume, so you need to subtract for rock/sand, but add in your sump and plumbing.

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

I caught the last shrimp tonight. I am planning to treat this weekend, and I will take the acro crabs out right before treating to minimize their time without a host.

Any last suggestions, tips, or caveats?

Thanks for the input so far Qwiv and cward.

 

[exoticaquatix]

id also like to know. good luck on this man, im in the same boat. i love my crabs and id hate to wipe them out. im in the process of getting a QT tank put together so i can do this exact same thing.
TTT
-nick

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8277317#post8277317 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Qwiv
Here is the best and most current info

http://www.ericborneman.com/Tegastes-content/Tegastes index.html

PS. The dip doesn't really work. Interceptor takes time to kill the buggers, not really dose. I dip all corals in Lugols according to the treatment listed in the web page I posted. You will see the redbugs using this treatment. If they are present, you need to treat the coral in quarantine using the full treatment. A dip might kill 99% of them, but the other 1% will just breed and they will come back.

PSS It is really worth it to take the corals out, even though it is a pain. Just call it a tank tune up.

Qwiv, not in my experience.

From what I've seen, it kills them all, and kills them pretty damn quick.

 

[Qwiv]

Well, if you have more experience then Humes and Borneman, you should contact them. They could use your valuable knowlege.

 

[exoticaquatix]

oh man, this was such a friendly thread.......

 

[LobsterOfJustice]

It's been almost a week since I treated the tank. I left the medication in for 11 hours. I had the medication pre-measured in 10g doses which I had been using for dips. I deliberately dosed enough medication for 150g, even though I only have about 125g before displacement in my system. After 11 hours I did a 25g water change and ran carbon in my phosban reactor.

Right before putting the medication in the tank I removed my acro crabs to a QT which also has my hermits and shrimp. Right after the water change and the addition of carbon, I reintroduced the acro crabs. They were missing (dead) by the next day. I have yet to reintroduce the hermits and shrimp. I think I will treat again this weekend. I will eyeball the dose and leave it in for at least 12 hours.

Most people report amazing results within hours of dosing the medication. I have not seen any extra PE, coloration, etc. The only difference in my tank seems the be that I can not find any red bugs (or my acro crabs). Snails, urchins, cucumber, etc all were unaffected.

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8290415#post8290415 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Qwiv
Well, if you have more experience then Humes and Borneman, you should contact them. They could use your valuable knowlege.

QMIV, the point is, anytime you treat in-tank, you add a million new variables. Dosages get all screwed up because crabs, etc are ingesting the stuff.

The interceptor kills 100%, its just tough to make sure you get the interceptor to them correctly in a display.

 

[Lobster]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8424456#post8424456 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
QMIV, the point is, anytime you treat in-tank, you add a million new variables. Dosages get all screwed up because crabs, etc are ingesting the stuff.

The interceptor kills 100%, its just tough to make sure you get the interceptor to them correctly in a display.

Where is this info? Just asking because its different than what Borneman has reported. As said above, he claims the key is duration, not concentration. The bugs have to be exposed to the drug long enough or even at high concentrations it may not work.

I think carbon, water change, and wet skimming are the big avenues of removing the drug, I have not heard the thing about ingestion.

 

[poknsnok]

it took about a week for my tricolor, which by the way seemed to be the most effected by the bugs, to start getting polyp extension back.. the difference tiday is amazing. I treated 4.5 months ago and no sign of any bugs. I did my treatment differently. After reading a few threads I treated once with a full pill on my 240 system and left the medication in for 24 hrs. did a 50 gal change and ran carbon for 4 days changing every day. I had removed my hermits and cleaner shrimp to a qt and left them out of the display for a week. I returned them and they were all just fine, I think you may have returned them too soon. Overall it was a very easy, hassle free and very successful treatment

 

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8424939#post8424939 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lobster
Where is this info? Just asking because its different than what Borneman has reported. As said above, he claims the key is duration, not concentration. The bugs have to be exposed to the drug long enough or even at high concentrations it may not work.

I think carbon, water change, and wet skimming are the big avenues of removing the drug, I have not heard the thing about ingestion.

I've seen 100% kill rates in 10 minutes. We're talking really high doses though.

The problem is, anytime you do this in a tank, you have to worry about all sorts of other interactions screwing up things. Are sponges absorbing it? Is the fact that pods are absorbing it and getting killed affecting the concentrations. Are your flow patterns keeping it from getting to certain areas? Is there even any active ingredient in the part of the pill you used? (The way the interceptor pills are made, is theyre poured as a liquid base, and then a drop of the active ingredient is dropped on, presumably in the middle...)

If you want to talk about concentrations/contact times needed to actually kill the things, talking about a display tank isnt really applicable. Theres way too many variables.

 

[Lobster]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8426222#post8426222 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
I've seen 100% kill rates in 10 minutes. We're talking really high doses though.

The problem is, anytime you do this in a tank, you have to worry about all sorts of other interactions screwing up things. Are sponges absorbing it? Is the fact that pods are absorbing it and getting killed affecting the concentrations. Are your flow patterns keeping it from getting to certain areas? Is there even any active ingredient in the part of the pill you used? (The way the interceptor pills are made, is theyre poured as a liquid base, and then a drop of the active ingredient is dropped on, presumably in the middle...)

If you want to talk about concentrations/contact times needed to actually kill the things, talking about a display tank isnt really applicable. Theres way too many variables.

The part about how the pill is mixed is scary, I had not heard that yet. Ugh. I wonder if the active ingredient is actually water soluble? If so, osmotically it would diffuse evenly throughout the solution and I would think things like flow would not be of concern. Just a guess though.

 

[RichConley]

Lobster, even if it is soluble, osmotic diffusion would take time, which would explain why bourneman thinks time is so important. The areas that had better turnover would get the drug faster.

As to the ingestion thing, I assume pods/bugs/etc get killed when they either take the drug in through their gills, or mouths, when it kills them, it stays in their body. If you kill huge populations of crabs/pods/etc, theres less drug left in the water.

Kill time seems to be really quick in dip like environment.

 

[Qwiv]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8426495#post8426495 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
Lobster, even if it is soluble, osmotic diffusion would take time, which would explain why bourneman thinks time is so important. The areas that had better turnover would get the drug faster.

As to the ingestion thing, I assume pods/bugs/etc get killed when they either take the drug in through their gills, or mouths, when it kills them, it stays in their body. If you kill huge populations of crabs/pods/etc, theres less drug left in the water.

Kill time seems to be really quick in dip like environment.

First, their tests where done in dip or quarantine type environments, not in full reef tanks and they still found contact time to be a major factor. Their observations are from controlled observations. Where are yours from? If you are going to stand up against their recommendations, you better have some back up to support your claim. Like I said, if you have any observations that are truly relevant, you should report them to Eric. He is much more qualified then yourself to recommend a treatment.

 

[poknsnok]

I treated for 24 hrs with a whole pill on a 240 system and since then my Acros have flourished. And I havent had any negative effects(cyano, nitrate spike, param problems etc). Thats all the proof I need