Achilles Hiding

[skp]

Hi everyone,

I purchased a juvenile (2.5 inches) Achilles tang 3 months ago and performed the tank transfer method to remove any cryptocaryon. After that I put it in a 65 gallon sps tank by itself for observation. I didn't do a prazipro treatment at that time. I noticed that the tang defecated solid poo. That is not poo that disperses with the water current but it's solid and falls to the sandbed like a log. Everything else seemed normal and it regained it's dark color and actively fed on Mysis and nori. Actually it only ate a few pieces of Mysis before it went straight for the nori clip each time.

Two days ago, I noticed that it didn't take any Mysis and would prefer the algae on the rocks to it. It still took the nori off the clip but not with the same gusto. Today I noticed it hovering close to the sand bed and hiding. This is not normal of it as it ususally comes up to me when I approach the tank and beg like a puppy for nori. It wont eat the nori off the clip today.

The water params are all good as I can tell. Sps are all doing ok (a little pale in color but they have been like that for a good 6 months). I haven't changed anything. Could it be that it has intestinal worms? Should I try a prazi treatment in tank? What should my next step be?

thank you in advance!

 

[skp]

The tang is now swimming around and acting normal again. What could have caused it to feel so under the weather for one day and then be all fine? There never were any spots on it so it doesn't seem like it was external parasites that came and fell off. I did a water change last night, fed some corals and dosed a little microbacter 7 and left the skimmer off all night. Could it have been a depletion of oxygen from the boost in bacteria and leaving the skimmer off? The tang had normal breathing and the above was my routine for the past 8 months and the tang was fine for the last 11 weeks in this tank. Perhaps maybe it was constipated? I'm going to hold off on the prazi for now.

 

[HumbleFish]

If it has intestinal worms, you should see stringy white poop coming out of it at some point. If it has gill flukes (I only mention because you said you didn't treat with Prazi), you should notice head twitching. Not trying to go all "Tang Police" on you, but your Achilles could be acting weird because it's cooped up in just a 65 gallon tank. These fish need plenty of swimming space to do their laps around the tank. Another possibility is it's being bullied by another fish in the tank, and was hiding out for awhile.

 

[royvoss]

i have an achilles , for a number of years now, one thing in swimming space, he is small, the tank will be fine for bit, but not long, try not feed him mysis, not good for a tang, has very little nutritinal value,try to get him on some kind of pellet food, i use spectrum.

 

[jbvdhp]

i have an achilles , for a number of years now, one thing in swimming space, he is small, the tank will be fine for bit, but not long, try not feed him mysis, not good for a tang, has very little nutritinal value,try to get him on some kind of pellet food, i use spectrum.

In your opinion, why is mysis not good?

 

[skp]

Thanks for the replies and concerns.

I was thinking I would keep this tang in my 65 for about 8 months. I have been planning an upgrade and I'm trying to decide between a 4' X 2' in the living room or a 6' X 2' in the basement. I know it might outgrow either but I plan to keep it with just a few small fish that stay under 2 inches and the reason for that is I plan to use minimal live rock to have a lot of open space.

Currently, it is in my 65 gallon with minimal live rock (displaces about 4 gallons of water) with no other fish (is it ok to be by itself?), some cuc and sps. I run a skimmer (vertex omega 150) rated for 150 gallons and for flow I use a sicce 3.0 return and an mp40qd set at reefcrest up to 50 percent.

it has no spots, no discolorations and doesn't have stringy poop and it doesn't twitch it's head. It twitches its body very rarely but I've come to the conclusion that when it does that it is just being aggressive to it's own reflection because it's eyes turn bright blue when it does this.

It has a lumpy stomach but it's been like that ever since I got it. It doesn't like Mysis or pellets (new life spectrum thera A) and it doesn't take the thicker seaweed (julians). I thought that Mysis fed occasionally would provide better nutrition than pellets. I haven't tried algae max. I feed green and brown nori because Im trying to give it as much diversity as I can and I am currently looking into vitamins.

 

[scooter31707]

Mysis is fine, as long as you don't make that a regular meal for it. I agree get him on some good quality flake and pellet food. Even try getting him to eat Nori.

 

[jbvdhp]

^if you could, do the 6/2, but 8/2 is better. I'm getting an 8/2/2 this weekend specifically for an Achilles and Naso. Not many people actually upgrade when they say they do, but if you're going that route anyway, and if you can afford the extra 2', do it. The fish seem happier zipping back and forth in a larger tank!

 

[skp]

^if you could, do the 6/2, but 8/2 is better. I'm getting an 8/2/2 this weekend specifically for an Achilles and Naso. Not many people actually upgrade when they say they do, but if you're going that route anyway, and if you can afford the extra 2', do it. The fish seem happier zipping back and forth in a larger tank!

The biggest concern is space. I have to try and keep the tank size proportionate to the room. I would prefer to get the larger tank but I rarely go downstairs and I don't want to have to do waterchanges on two different floors so it will be my only tank. Last night it was acting normal after a full day of hiding. Today it is hiding again. I don't want to just leave it and hope it gets better. What could be causing this? Temp swing at night? My water stays at about 75 degrees because the house thermostat is set a little below that. I know it could get a little colder at night but not by more than 2 degrees. Ph swings? I don't test for Ph but my alk is constant at 8.7 dKh. Any clue what I should test for? I thought that this tang would be much lighter in color if it were scared or sick. It is a solid black except a little white on the chest.

 

[skp]

The tang came out and sat on the sand right beside the glass and I managed to have a really good look. It appears that there is a really small white worm coming out of the side of it's gut! Should I take it out and treat with prazipro? I read that prazi wasn't affective against internal parasites. Do internal parasites burrow out? It's right on the gut where it was lumpy. Or is it something that is latched on from outside? Is there a chance this fish can bounce back or is it a gonner? Any suggestions? Freshwater dip? Sorry if I sound too frantic...I put a lot of effort into this fish and I would hate to lose it now.

 

[Deinonych]

A freshwater dip won't do anything against internal worms. I would start with a standard dose of prazi and see how things go. Prazi will work against most helminths - internal worms included.

 

[skp]

A freshwater dip won't do anything against internal worms. I would start with a standard dose of prazi and see how things go. Prazi will work against most helminths - internal worms included.

do internal worms come out of the gut like that? Should I pull it out with tweasers while I have the fish out before I put it into the qt to treat with prazi? Or should I just treat the display?

thanks again

 

[Deinonych]

Can you post a picture?

 

[skp]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/album.php?albumid=10820&pictureid=74206

Its the little thing protruding out of it's side above the bottom fin. It isn't coming out of the anus. The picture is bad. It looks like a light colored poo covered in detritus...the best I can explain it. Its the oval blob part at the tip of it that is actually outside of the fish. The rest of the white part is actually inside of the fish as it has kind of stretched the skin.

It didn't have any white stringy poo ever.

 

[Deinonych]

Difficult to determine from the photo. Dosing prazi won't hurt - it's one of the gentlest medications at our disposal.

 

[skp]

Difficult to determine from the photo. Dosing prazi won't hurt - it's one of the gentlest medications at our disposal.

it looks like it could even be it's intestine spilling out of a hole in it's skin. I only have a fireshrimp and a pom pom crab (both under 1.5 inches) and a handful of hermits. Should I do the prazi in the display or risk stressing it by taking it out?

If it dies...do I need to leave the tank fallow (if I don't do prazi in tank)? It would be great if I can get a diagnosis. I cant seem to find anything online regarding something actually burrowing out of a fishes gut.

 

[skp]

here's a better picture with adjusted white balance.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/album.php?albumid=10820&pictureid=74207

 

[skp]

The protruding lump is totally gone now....it either came out or went back in. Has anyone seen something like this? It was something inside the fish for sure as I could see that the stretched skin around the penetration site was translucent. It looked like a lump with a hole and something spilling out of it. I don't know if I should stress it more by trying to catch it or just treat the entire tank and do lots of water changes.

 

[skp]

Has anyone had a fish die or act like this from internal parasites? Could the lump just be a lump of sand that was blocking the intestine enough to make a bulge and then pass? I noticed that my tang did eat a lot of algae on the sand and rocks and quite often got a mouthful of sand.

thanks again