Achilles, ICH, Tank Transfer Method

[skp]

Hi,

I will be picking up a juvenile Achilles tang today. It is between 2 and 2.5 inches. It came into the lfs yesterday and isn't showing any spots but I am planning to do the tank transfer method right away and then quarantine.

I have a tunze nano stream 6020 in a 15 gallon shallow (2 feet length) for the qt. For the tank transfer, I am using two 7 gallon sterilite bins with an air pump and fresh airs tones. I made all the new saltwater and got everything going yesterday. I put some new saltwater into one of the bins and turned on the air pump last night. Today I noticed that the water doesn't circulate enough at some of the corners of the water surface. There are parts of the water surface (about 50%) that have small water bubbles and are standing still. Is this ok or do I need to get a powerhead in there? I'm trying to avoid the powerhead because of difficulty in sterilizing. Is there a way I can tell if there isn't enough water circulation with just the air stone?

Thanks in advance.

 

[scooter31707]

you will be ok. I have 2x 10 gallons for my TTM, I brought a huge air pump, it really moves some water. Your situation, I think you will be ok with just 7 gallon. I notice you didn't mention a heater, make sure you have 2 of them. Just watch you ammonia and keep some Prime on-hand. I like to dose Prime on the 2nd day of the TTM.

 

[skp]

you will be ok. I have 2x 10 gallons for my TTM, I brought a huge air pump, it really moves some water. Your situation, I think you will be ok with just 7 gallon. I notice you didn't mention a heater, make sure you have 2 of them. Just watch you ammonia and keep some Prime on-hand. I like to dose Prime on the 2nd day of the TTM.

I cant trust the use of a heater in those small bins. Our house is a new build and I've been using the thermostat to keep the temperature in the house constant at all times since I have enfant kids. My tanks seem to run at 72-74. I'll keep a close watch on temp and ammonia..it's only for 12 days until I can get it in the qt.

I have some microbacter7. Do you think it would be a good idea to use that with Prime or would it just screw with the water chemistry? I'm actually prepared to do two small water changes per day during the 12 days if I have to.

Thanks for the advice and reassurance.

 

[Spar]

No need to use the microbater7 during TTM, it won't even have time to do anything positive before your next transfer. Prime will have no negative impact on water quality/chemistry even if you do use the microbacter7, so use it as needed or proactively. I add it on the 3rd day of each transfer every time.

 

[skp]

I've been testing ammonia (salifert) and it goes up to about 0.25 in 8-10 hours. I have about 6 gallons of water and the tang is only 2.5 inches nose to tip of tail fin. I tried dosing a ml of prime and the ammonia kept going up so I did a 5 gallon water change and dosed a ml of prime. 10 hours later it is back up to 0.25. The tang is a grey color...I'm guessing because it's not liking the water. Its not taking nori either which I'm guessing is also because of the stress of the poor water. I take the nori out in about 3 hours before it has a chance to break apart into the water. Is it ok to keep dosing more than the recommended dose of Prime into the same water? After everything that I read, it seems strange that ammonia is going up that fast. The tang isn't defecating as there is no excrement in the water.

 

[skp]

I just tested the water again just 6 hours after I did a 5 gallon water change and dosed 1 ml of prime and ammonia came out as 2.0. I tested the new saltwater and ammonia is undetectable so the Achilles is definitely producing that much ammonia without eating or defecating. Any advice?

 

[jmm]

I didn't think Prime got rid of the ammonia. I thought it just kept it from being harmful by binding to it and your test would still show it.

Is this correct?

 

[skp]

I didn't think Prime got rid of the ammonia. I thought it just kept it from being harmful by binding to it and your test would still show it.

Is this correct?

I really hope this is true. Can someone confirm this? I lost my first Achilles to ich and its hard to come by (not to mention expensive) one so nice and healthy. I'm literally thinking about this fish every five minutes. What if I can't get it to eat? Will it be ok nit eating for 12 days during the tank transfer?

 

[Deinonych]

While it can go 12 days without eating, I would get it eating well before starting TTM.

 

[skp]

While it can go 12 days without eating, I would get it eating well before starting TTM.

It came in with a white spot so I'm guessing it has Ich. From my experience with Achilies is that new specimens don't eat while the spots are on the fish. I think I need to get the Ich off before or while trying to get it to eat. My only option is to get it into my larger qt with the power head but I would prefer to put it in there after the final transfer as I don't want to have to empty the qt if it is only the first transfer. Tomorrow will be my first transfer to bin #2. Should I transfer to the qt or should I wait a few more days? Thanks for the help.

 

[skp]

The Achilles seems to look a little darker and less stressed this morning so I just transferred it to the bin for now. It still isn't eating but after the transfer, I noticed it had defecated what looks to be some nori. I'm pretty certain that it wasn't from eating while I had it. I'm not sure when it was collected but today will be the 4th day since the LFS got it in.

 

[skp]

Just an update. I tried putting nori on a rock with a rubber band. Still not eating but it is picking at the bottom of the container though. There's nothing on the bottom of the container so I don't know what it is picking at. Maybe it's starting to get hungry and it's just an instinctual reaction? I really hope he starts eating soon. It's belly is not sunken in at all yet but it's grey with blue rings around it's eyes so I think it's pretty stressed.

 

[Dmorty217]

I really hope this is true. Can someone confirm this? I lost my first Achilles to ich and its hard to come by (not to mention expensive) one so nice and healthy. I'm literally thinking about this fish every five minutes. What if I can't get it to eat? Will it be ok nit eating for 12 days during the tank transfer?

This is correct. Ammonia detoxifiers bind the ammonia to make it safe for fish. If you test for ammonia it will still read on a test, it will just be bound chemically

 

[scooter31707]

did you ask the vendor/previous owner what it was eating during their possession of it?

 

[skp]

This is correct. Ammonia detoxifiers bind the ammonia to make it safe for fish. If you test for ammonia it will still read on a test, it will just be bound chemically

Thanks for the info. I found some stuff on seachem support that also explains this along with inaccurate readings and brown colors on certain tests.

 

[skp]

did you ask the vendor/previous owner what it was eating during their possession of it?

It came into the lfs from on Thursday evening (5 days ago) and I brought it home the next morning. It developed an Ich spot on Friday and the lfs was about to put it into a copper tank full of other diseased fish which I didn't want to happen.

 

[skp]

The Achilles is eating now. Not too aggressively but it tore some nori off the clip and it's occasionally picking at it from the bottom of the bin. I tried red and purple seaweed as well and so far it's only going after the green nori. I guess it's feeling a little more comfortable but it still looks like it wants to get out of there pretty badly. It's color is still grey.

 

[skp]

Achilles is scratching now

Achilles is scratching now

The Achilles made a mess with the nori so I did a water change. Less than an hour later it is scratching it's left gill against the bottom. It is currently on day 5 of the entire ttm process which is day 2 after the first transfer into tank#2. In came in with a single white spot of ich on the body on Friday (day 1) but has lost it since and has not shown any more signs of ich until today.

Is it more likely:

a. That I have prematurely burst a cyst (tomont) by scraping the bottom trying to pickup all the bits of nori?

b. A trophont has encysted right on the fish and was transfered into tank#2?

c. I somehow contaminated my new salt water mixing tank by not washing and drying my hands thoroughly enough or through aerosol transmission.

d. The trophont was already in the gills and is starting to move to come off the fish thus bothering it now on day 5 and it is not newly infected. It was just coincidence that it started after a water change.

If the case is anything but option d, do I need to restart the ttm process from day 1?

I really appreciate any help. Thanks!

 

[skp]

Just an update. The Achilles is no longer scratching. It has gotten a little darker in color and is swimming casually around in the bin. It is back to not eating again so maybe it is a new infection of Ich? I plan to complete the 3 remaining transfers as scheduled and get it into the QT and watch for any signs unless anyone can advise me to start over.

 

[Spar]

As long as you have been performing ttm right then it is just remaining trophonts jumping off the fish. They can stay on the fish for up to 7 days which you are still in.

The white spots are from when the parasites leave the fish, not new ones, just in case that helps with potential confusion.

So just keep with your plan to finish ttm and monitor for a few weeks after before putting in your DT.