Acrylic fabrication questions? I can help!

[Floyd R Turbo]

Dude, have you ever built a tank before? I would not 'cut my teeth' on a project that large - you're bound to make a newbie mistake.

Hand router? Never. Not unless you're doing the flush trimming after bonding.

You need the end piece to be 1) nearly perfectly square 2) identical. #2 is more important. To achieve this, you need to fabricate them at the same time.

It takes me less then 30 minutes to rough cut, square, and edge prep my end piece. I use a router table and fence for the edge prep, and a squaring jig to tape to the end piece for easy squaring - usually one pass on the router. Then once your end piece are done, you need to make your front and back pieces, then run all the ends and front/back through the router one right after the other, adjust fence, and flip and route prep the other edge of each piece, one right after the other, so that all 4 piece are the same "height"

I would not build a tank that large with a hand router, unless I'm missing part of the picture of what you're doing. So are you double-stick taping a piece that you know is perfectly straight on top to act as a router guide or something?

 

[camaroboy8691]

nope never built a tank before , well acrylic that is .. plenty of stainless tanks for industrial appilcations . i get alot of negatives from guys , it actually pushes me harder to do the job so sure ill make a newbie mistake , but im pretty confident i wont .

hand router yes , plenty of guys on here using them ,maybe not for as big as im doing .

and yes im sticking a striaght edge to the piece im not exactly winging it , it may take me some time but ill have everything dead on .....im sure a router table will help , but cant imagine it being any easier pushing a 1" thick 8ft long 32" wide piece through it .

im not your typical back yard novice that doesnt understand anything , im a few notches above that , ill admit maybe i shouldnt have taken on this project , but it will be done right .

so back to my original question ...... do i wipe the edges with denatured alcohol or not ?

 

[peppie]

Yes. Denatured alcohol is used to wipe all edges to be welded.

With no prior acrylic tank building experience you are taking a huge risk!
I to am a notch above your DIYer, I have had a fully tooled woodshop for 20+ years and use it constantly. Acrylic was an easy transition. Flat, square, and smooth!!

I have built a number of acrylic tanks from 2 gallon to 90 gal. Most held fine some failed!
In my experience it is best to start with something smaller to understand the welding process!

This is not a project you can just read about and expect to succeed!
Good luck!!

 

[camaroboy8691]

thanks , ill be building the sump 1st so that should give me alittle practice 1st .

 

[camaroboy8691]

ok i gave in today , ordering a router table .....

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

nope never built a tank before , well acrylic that is .. plenty of stainless tanks for industrial appilcations . i get alot of negatives from guys , it actually pushes me harder to do the job so sure ill make a newbie mistake , but im pretty confident i wont .

hand router yes , plenty of guys on here using them ,maybe not for as big as im doing .

and yes im sticking a striaght edge to the piece im not exactly winging it , it may take me some time but ill have everything dead on .....im sure a router table will help , but cant imagine it being any easier pushing a 1" thick 8ft long 32" wide piece through it .

im not your typical back yard novice that doesnt understand anything , im a few notches above that , ill admit maybe i shouldnt have taken on this project , but it will be done right .

so back to my original question ...... do i wipe the edges with denatured alcohol or not ?

I didn't mean to come across negative - but this thread is peppered with questions that might be easily answered, but there still might be other aspects/principles that are missed that led to that question. Your OP w/ the DN Alc question had a comment about what you were struggling with, which is what prompted my post. Just trying to help.

My router table is about 48x72 with the router about 18" in from one corner and it seems to do the trick nicely. I know that adambowersinva (has posted on this thread) has a smaller table and does large tanks using an outfeed roller and some other tricks (different way of feeding the acrylic) but from talking to him I might do mine differently too.

Anyways here is a pic of mine

If I had to do it again, I would build it a little differently. What am I saying, I am going to build it again LOL

 

[pfoxgrover]

My router table is about 48x72 with the router about 18" in from one corner and it seems to do the trick nicely. I know that adambowersinva (has posted on this thread) has a smaller table and does large tanks using an outfeed roller and some other tricks (different way of feeding the acrylic) but from talking to him I might do mine differently too.

If I had to do it again, I would build it a little differently. What am I saying, I am going to build it again LOL

Nice looking table Floyd. What dimensions and router position do you think you will use next time?
I am in the process of converting a bench that I already have into a router table. It is 36" x 96". I was going to put the router in the middle the long way and about 16 inches in on the short side. I am not sure how well it is going to work out. I need to prepare some pieces that are 24" x 60".
Any suggestions would be welcome.
Merry Christmas,
-Paul

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Well from talking to Adam what he did (adam correct me if I am wrong) was put the router close to the front edge and then his fence is left-to-right in front of him, so that he can push the pieces away from him to the fence and slide the piece from left to right. You are obviously reaching across the router bit to do this so a shield/guard is in order but from a mechanical perspective, it seems to work.

I put my bit near the front right corner and then fence on left so I have to hold the piece against the fence by leftward pressure and then push the piece away from me/forward. For longer pieces, this is rather tricky as the piece is off the table for a start difficult to hold against the fence. This is where Adam's solution shines IMO.

For your table I would not put the router at the center point of the long dimension, I would offset it to the right more. If you put it about 24" from the end for example, then you would route an 8' piece starting with only a couple feet hanging off the end and then an outfeed roller (or two) could catch it on the other side, using Adam's type of setup. I know from talking to him that this works, I think his table is 48x48 or smaller and he make 8' tanks.

As for my next table - not sure, but Adam's concept is intriguing. My next build will be more about the support structure and mounting of the router to the table. I used an aluminum plate and it didn't turn out quite like I wanted - too complicated, and I don't think it is staying where it should. Next one will just be screwed directly to the top layer of MDF - much simpler

 

[mattyp54]

One thing I started to use instead of the gate and the router is I bought a planner and u can set how much you take off at one time I usually take off about a 1/16 of an inch and i like using is a lot better then a router and a gate

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

A table jointer (planer) works fine for final edge prep, as long as your pieces are *perfectly* square to begin with. A jointer cannot correct a squaring issue.

 

[camaroboy8691]

floyd or anyone that does big heavy sheets , what would be the best way to square a 32x8ft panel ? i see alot of tables have a slot in them with a square edge that slides with the panel but i dont think that would be the best way to do it , maybe im wrong or there is a better idea ?

ill be honest , working with plastics and wood are not my strong points , i started out as a machinist 15 yrs ago , and now own a custom welding shop so im use to big shears and brakes for the products i make , wish i could just take it over and shear it to size lol ..... or just build a nice stainless fish tank , these tanks we are currently making for hydro graphic shops are 4x8x36 ... make a heck of a fish tank and they are all nice pretty tig welded ... but i feel my attention to detail and patients will allow me to build this tank with no issue , i have been glueing small 1" cut offs together and have it down pretty good with the pin method using weldon 3 , but i have weldon 4 coming tommorrow .

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Well you don't need to square the front/back pieces, just the ends. When you bond the end pieces on to the front panel, you leave a lip of the front/back panel sticking out to get your fillet and then flush trim that off later. So the only dimension that has to be routed on the front and back pieces are the top and bottom edge, which you will then bond to the top and bottom panels. The top and bottom edge of the front and back piece only need to be parallel to each other: this is where the router and fence technique work very well and the jointer does not. With a router table you run the piece through to prep one edge, then flip the piece over, adjust the fence slightly, and route the opposite edge. These edges are now parallel to each other.

So the trick is to get the end piece square and here is how:

-Route one edge
-Flip and route the other
-Use a reference piece which is parallel on each edge, Take a T-square (not a framing square - a good carpenter's square) and put the T against one of the routed edges and double-stick tape the reference piece on along the T-square such that it hangs off over one of the non-prepped edges
-Run those pieces through the router table with the reference piece against the fence. -You now have one side that is square with the other 2 previously prepped edges.
-Flip over and route other edge
-Cross-measure to verify squareness
-Repeat for second end piece (or, if they are thin enough, double-stick tape them together and do them simultaneously - only really works for sumps, as tanks are too thick)

After this, you will need to run each end piece through the fence one after the other taking just a hair off until each are of the same front-to-back dimension.

Next, rotate 90 degrees and do it again, along with the front and back panels. You are now making the top-to-bottom dimension of all 4 pieces equal by running through the same fence setting. Now you have 2 identical end pieces and 4 pieces with identical top-to-bottom dimensions. You are now ready to bond all pieces. Top and bottom can be rough cut as you will flush trim all 4 edges off.

 

[Lubecky]

Is this a good deal? Coming from piedmont plastics.

Tank is 60x24x18 with a 3" eurobrace.


Robert, we have the Plexiglas G in stock. Cost for all 9 pcs. is $475.00. Need 1 -2 days to get cut and ready for pick up. Let us know if you need anything else

 

[Phixer]

Need advice. What would be the pros and cons of using a hybrid joint withh the 2 part stuff and solvent? Normally I only see this asked if someone is trying to repair a poorly made solvent joint.

Asking because I need to bond some pretty thick and heavy large panels and getting bubbles is almost inevitable. 1.5" thick X 120" L Polycast GP, I really dont have the means to edge prep them perfectly.

They will be close but would like the strength of solvent and the versatility of #40/42 while allowing it something to bite into. Thinking the gussets/fillets cast with #40/42 will help. Will not be annealled.

Thanks!

 

[camaroboy8691]

on this big tank that im building out of 1" a few bubbles here and there is that ok ? im not talking alot , but here and there ?

also are clamps ok after a minute ? im using weldon 4 , im not talking alot of clamping pressure , just a light clamp load .

also , im thinking of maybe adding angles to the inside of the tank , where can i get pre cut angles ?

i had another companys 4x8x30" tank a few yrs ago and it was all 3/4" with no angles at all , a few bubbles here and there but it held fine , so im thinking of adding the angles inside just becuase its my 1st acrylic tank and i sort of want to go over board .

 

[camaroboy8691]

okie dokie , ill post up some pics of what i got so far , dont pick them apart to bad im working with what i have , but i got the sides all done and the bottom bonded , {bottom not shown yet} but im posting a few pics of areas with bubbles , im concerned , but not really since i have seen others way worse ..... keep in mind this is 1" acrylic , bonded with weldon 4

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/91708975@N06/8327933956/" title="IMG_1757 by 225digger, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8075/8327933956_2b4fcf2365.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="IMG_1757"></a>

 

[camaroboy8691]

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/91708975@N06/8326877381/" title="IMG_1760 by 225digger, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8355/8326877381_6d99eb606a.jpg" width="375" height="500" alt="IMG_1760"></a>

 

[camaroboy8691]

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/91708975@N06/8326882193/" title="IMG_1761 by 225digger, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8216/8326882193_2aed143b4f.jpg" width="375" height="500" alt="IMG_1761"></a>

 

[camaroboy8691]

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/91708975@N06/8326881545/" title="IMG_1762 by 225digger, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8355/8326881545_fb602fa917.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="IMG_1762"></a>

 

[camaroboy8691]

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/91708975@N06/8327940456/" title="IMG_1763 by 225digger, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8219/8327940456_3233fda62c.jpg" width="375" height="500" alt="IMG_1763"></a>