Acrylic fabrication questions? I can help!
- Thread starter JohnL
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jjoos99
New member
I actually received a call directly from MRC (my reef creation) today. Tim told me that the fittings are glued in and they repair them by drilling it out first then running a tap in to recut the threads. He said if it doesnt tap very easily to heat up the tap while using it. I am impressed with a company that will take the time to help out with an issue for one of their products that is well used and by someone else that didnt buy it originally.
Jeff
Jeff
dattack
Active member
Well I haven't really figured out totally how to remove all the bubbles from the end but I think I can live with it.
Anyways, anybody know what pin size to use for 3/4" acrylic. Seems to me I keep getting large bubbles when applying the glue. Do I need something thicker than pins for this?
Furthermore, what size acrylic to i need to make a 48x24x20 tank without a center brace?
Anyways, anybody know what pin size to use for 3/4" acrylic. Seems to me I keep getting large bubbles when applying the glue. Do I need something thicker than pins for this?
Furthermore, what size acrylic to i need to make a 48x24x20 tank without a center brace?
I don't use pins so can't help ya there. I use wires which are .014". There are numerous factors which can cause bubbles but IMO thicker pins/wires is not the answer.
If your perimeter flange (eurobrace) is wide enough, 1/2" would do fine. 3/4" would be ideal with 3-4" flange and have minimal deflection.
HTH,
James
If your perimeter flange (eurobrace) is wide enough, 1/2" would do fine. 3/4" would be ideal with 3-4" flange and have minimal deflection.
HTH,
James
Trickman2
New member
Hi guys, I just picked up a acrylic sump used and noticed when I got it home that one corner has some mostly Crazing and a little cracking. To my knowledge I don't believe the sump is leaking but would like to repair the corner before putting it back in use. Any thought or suggestions would be helpful. the corner in which this is happening has a round edges(Its basically the one big piece for the bottom and the sides making replacement not possible. I was wondering if I could easily get some epoxy resin or just use some weldon to ensure it will be leak proof in the future.
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First off... thanks to this thread and others like it I have been able to build a custom sump for my new tank. The joints came out perfectly using weld-on 4 and some of my cut-up guitar strings ".009 high e". The overall dimensions of the sump are 48x24x14 and is built with 3/8" Plexiglas G. Since this is a sump, I would like to avoid euro-bracing. Looking at the design, do you guys feel this would be safe to use corner bracing only to reinforce the corner seams, or should I just go ahead an bite the bullet and euro-brace the whole thing? It is only 14" tall and did not appear to bow at all (confirmed with straight edge) during the leak test. I think the center baffle/refugium overflow greatly improves the structural strength of the overall design.
Thanks,
Craig
Thanks,
Craig
ReefEnabler
Premium Member
ckimble,
wow, that looks really good! IMO add the top flange, I think it makes sumps look sleeker and more polished as well as providing support and an easy place to drill holes for probes etc. But I bet you it would be totally fine without the top flange, given its 3/8 and how many baffles. And that you have no seams. so jelous
I just finished making 4 acrylic tanks (3 50Gs and 1 35) that are pretty simple without any baffles. The first ones had some bubbles but after that I was able to get bubble free joints. I found that the magic number for when to pull the pins is right about 60 seconds. When I was pulling the pins at ~30 seconds, it seemed like I got more bubbles since more of the weldon would end up evaporating without getting a chance to dissolve any acrylic. BeanAnimal, I think I recall you being the one who mentioned that a while back, thanks
However, I am currently about 50% done with a sump/refugium combo that I am making for my sister for Christmas. 36x12x18. The highest baffle is 15" (refugium), and I am using 3/8" cell cast.
My outside joints are fine, but the baffles are not perfect. It was my first time setting baffles. I set 2 of them onto the front panel (only the main side panels on at that point), and stupidly used a metal speed square to line it up. This was laying flat right next to the joint, so of course capillary action pulled the weldon under the square also. I basically made a bit of a mess, but was able to remove the square, add more solvent and pull the pins. After things dried I got bubbles in the seams, although there is a solid seal going down the whole thing still, but in some places its only 1/2 of the 3/8" acrylic. Are these bubbles a problem with this thickness of material, or should I add a bead of weldon#16 just in case? I've seem to recall somebody saying wo16 weakened the joint if it’s not needed so I wanted to double check.
Any info you guys could give me on how much a bubble really weakens joint would be great.
Here are pictures of the worst places of my first tank, the 35G frag tank. The ones near the bottom corners bother me. These bubbles are similar to the ones in the baffles of the sump.
And the whole 35G frag. Need to drill slots into that PVC.
I will say that I’ve come to respect and fear the art of working with acrylics. Every time I start that timer to start the solvent, my heart rate goes up considerably
Thanks,
Ryan
wow, that looks really good! IMO add the top flange, I think it makes sumps look sleeker and more polished as well as providing support and an easy place to drill holes for probes etc. But I bet you it would be totally fine without the top flange, given its 3/8 and how many baffles. And that you have no seams. so jelous
I just finished making 4 acrylic tanks (3 50Gs and 1 35) that are pretty simple without any baffles. The first ones had some bubbles but after that I was able to get bubble free joints. I found that the magic number for when to pull the pins is right about 60 seconds. When I was pulling the pins at ~30 seconds, it seemed like I got more bubbles since more of the weldon would end up evaporating without getting a chance to dissolve any acrylic. BeanAnimal, I think I recall you being the one who mentioned that a while back, thanks
However, I am currently about 50% done with a sump/refugium combo that I am making for my sister for Christmas. 36x12x18. The highest baffle is 15" (refugium), and I am using 3/8" cell cast.
My outside joints are fine, but the baffles are not perfect. It was my first time setting baffles. I set 2 of them onto the front panel (only the main side panels on at that point), and stupidly used a metal speed square to line it up. This was laying flat right next to the joint, so of course capillary action pulled the weldon under the square also. I basically made a bit of a mess, but was able to remove the square, add more solvent and pull the pins. After things dried I got bubbles in the seams, although there is a solid seal going down the whole thing still, but in some places its only 1/2 of the 3/8" acrylic. Are these bubbles a problem with this thickness of material, or should I add a bead of weldon#16 just in case? I've seem to recall somebody saying wo16 weakened the joint if it’s not needed so I wanted to double check.
Any info you guys could give me on how much a bubble really weakens joint would be great.
Here are pictures of the worst places of my first tank, the 35G frag tank. The ones near the bottom corners bother me. These bubbles are similar to the ones in the baffles of the sump.
And the whole 35G frag. Need to drill slots into that PVC.
I will say that I’ve come to respect and fear the art of working with acrylics. Every time I start that timer to start the solvent, my heart rate goes up considerably
Thanks,
Ryan
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Trickman2,
Crazing cannot be easily repaired. If it's actually cracking though, something should be done IMO. I'd personally use Weld-on 40, try to find some locally. Whatever you do though, be careful, crazing is a sign of stressed material and any solvent can make this worse.
ckimble,
You'd probably be fine without it, but I almost always use a eurobrace. It's adds alot of structural strength.
RyanBrucks,
If anything, add gussets in the affected areas. Far stronger than a simple bead of 16, which won't add much in the way of strength BTW, more of a seal. A small bubble won't affect joint strength enough to concern yourself with but voids, dry spots, and lotsa bubbles certainly should IMO. The 2 left pics look like there was gaps and should have been shimmed a little, the 2 right pics look dry to me. Before applying solvent, check to insure the "gap" is consistent all around.
FWIW, please don't "fear" working with acrylic. Like anything, just requires patience & most important - practice.
My heart races on some things as well, esp big stuff, *a* beer helps
HTH,
James
Crazing cannot be easily repaired. If it's actually cracking though, something should be done IMO. I'd personally use Weld-on 40, try to find some locally. Whatever you do though, be careful, crazing is a sign of stressed material and any solvent can make this worse.
ckimble,
You'd probably be fine without it, but I almost always use a eurobrace. It's adds alot of structural strength.
RyanBrucks,
If anything, add gussets in the affected areas. Far stronger than a simple bead of 16, which won't add much in the way of strength BTW, more of a seal. A small bubble won't affect joint strength enough to concern yourself with but voids, dry spots, and lotsa bubbles certainly should IMO. The 2 left pics look like there was gaps and should have been shimmed a little, the 2 right pics look dry to me. Before applying solvent, check to insure the "gap" is consistent all around.
FWIW, please don't "fear" working with acrylic. Like anything, just requires patience & most important - practice.
My heart races on some things as well, esp big stuff, *a* beer helps
HTH,
James
Hi! This thread is too long now to try to sift through and find the answers that I need, so I'm going to ask....
I need to build a sump/refugium out of acrylic to go under my new 210gal tank. I've got an acrylic 100gal tank, but it's really too nice to use for the refugium (has rounded corners in the front- I'm going to sell it). I need to buy 3/8" or 1/2" Cast acrylic?
I figure that it needs to be about 80 gallons (not quite sure) with a 45 gal refugium area. Can I get away with 3/8"s or should I go with the 1/2"?
I haven't priced either, though I'm assuming that 1/2" is a lot more than 3/8"s. I'm in Chattanooga, would there be alocal supplier, or do I need to order on line somewhere?
You've mentioned that brand of acrylic is important, but I can't find what brand is recommended, or is it just cast acrylic verses the other types?
Thanks, oh much wiser ones than me.... And how long do I need to let it cure before putting it to use?
Susan
I need to build a sump/refugium out of acrylic to go under my new 210gal tank. I've got an acrylic 100gal tank, but it's really too nice to use for the refugium (has rounded corners in the front- I'm going to sell it). I need to buy 3/8" or 1/2" Cast acrylic?
I figure that it needs to be about 80 gallons (not quite sure) with a 45 gal refugium area. Can I get away with 3/8"s or should I go with the 1/2"?
I haven't priced either, though I'm assuming that 1/2" is a lot more than 3/8"s. I'm in Chattanooga, would there be alocal supplier, or do I need to order on line somewhere?
You've mentioned that brand of acrylic is important, but I can't find what brand is recommended, or is it just cast acrylic verses the other types?
Thanks, oh much wiser ones than me.... And how long do I need to let it cure before putting it to use?
Susan
jay24k
Active member
From what I've read, the height is one of the biggest determining factors. For example, I just built a 3'x3'x12" tank and used 1/4". I filled it up 3 days ago and it hasn't had a single bow in it. After 12", I've read you wanna stick with 3/8" but depending on the LxW also. Can you give the dimensions as these guys here will know exactly what to use.
ReefEnabler
Premium Member
acrylics,
thanks for the tip.
I've never done gussets before. I do not have a table saw, but I have some MDF that I bould cut my circular saw with to create a 45 degree router cut perhaps. Is that the right idea?
And since I would be gluing into the existing corner, would I have to use the capillary method without pins, and apply the weldon to both seams? is it necessary to weigh it down, or press into the triangular piece to make it tight?
but of course I have no idea how to add a gusset inside of baffles already glued 1" apart. Luckily the worst bubble is on a side with enough space to work
FWIW I was using shims and size17 pins every 6" for every seam. My skill with the router and clamp work has improved alot so i think edge quality was a large reason for bubbles in my first couple tanks.
I guess fear is the wrong word. more like paranoia that none of my pieces are square. so I check them obsessively, and constantly find tiny mistakes. thankfully this is starting to improve.
thanks for the tip.
I've never done gussets before. I do not have a table saw, but I have some MDF that I bould cut my circular saw with to create a 45 degree router cut perhaps. Is that the right idea?
And since I would be gluing into the existing corner, would I have to use the capillary method without pins, and apply the weldon to both seams? is it necessary to weigh it down, or press into the triangular piece to make it tight?
but of course I have no idea how to add a gusset inside of baffles already glued 1" apart. Luckily the worst bubble is on a side with enough space to work
FWIW I was using shims and size17 pins every 6" for every seam. My skill with the router and clamp work has improved alot so i think edge quality was a large reason for bubbles in my first couple tanks.
I guess fear is the wrong word. more like paranoia that none of my pieces are square. so I check them obsessively, and constantly find tiny mistakes. thankfully this is starting to improve.
Susan,
Can you give dimensions of the tank you want to build? There are a ton of ways to make an 80 gal tank.
You can buy it locally, I'm certain there are a few suppliers in the Chat area. IME, 1/2" shouldnt cost much more than 3/8", maybe $1 or $1.50 more per square foot, dependent on the supplier of course.
The only brands I personally recommend are Polycast, Cyro Acrylite GP, and Plexi-Glas G, in that order. I'd personally rather see someone use extruded over some of the "garbage" cell cast acrylic brands out there.
You can fill it in 72hrs minimum (though others may fill sooner), preferably wait a week or so.
Water pressure is based on height but once that is settled, deflection is based on span (length), longer the span - the more it will bow given any height/thickness combination. The amount of bracing you want is the next consideration. Less bracing requires thicker material. So height, span, as well as bracing/structure should be taken into account when determining thickness requirements.
HTH,
James
Can you give dimensions of the tank you want to build? There are a ton of ways to make an 80 gal tank.
You can buy it locally, I'm certain there are a few suppliers in the Chat area. IME, 1/2" shouldnt cost much more than 3/8", maybe $1 or $1.50 more per square foot, dependent on the supplier of course.
The only brands I personally recommend are Polycast, Cyro Acrylite GP, and Plexi-Glas G, in that order. I'd personally rather see someone use extruded over some of the "garbage" cell cast acrylic brands out there.
You can fill it in 72hrs minimum (though others may fill sooner), preferably wait a week or so.
Water pressure is based on height but once that is settled, deflection is based on span (length), longer the span - the more it will bow given any height/thickness combination. The amount of bracing you want is the next consideration. Less bracing requires thicker material. So height, span, as well as bracing/structure should be taken into account when determining thickness requirements.
HTH,
James
Ryan,
Do you have a supplier in town that sells extruded triangular rod? You really don't need it to be triangular at all, small squarish strips will do just as well and simpler.
I would *rarely ever* recommend gluing without wires/pins. Use them, pull them, and then gently push the gusset into the corner, capillary action itself will pull the solvent up and glue the vertical seam.
Remember this is supplementary so you want it to glue well, but don't worry about it *that* much, just to add strength/rigidity to a potentially weak area rather than trying to repair an obviously bad area. Don't worry at all about the baffles, generally not structural so not to worry.
If it helps, I've never met an acrylic fabricator that always gets it perfect. We all make mistakes and the better you get, the more you'll find in your own work. Of course the better you get, the more picky you get as well so they bug you more. It sounds bad but not meant to be; get used to it, it's how we all learn
James
Do you have a supplier in town that sells extruded triangular rod? You really don't need it to be triangular at all, small squarish strips will do just as well and simpler.
I would *rarely ever* recommend gluing without wires/pins. Use them, pull them, and then gently push the gusset into the corner, capillary action itself will pull the solvent up and glue the vertical seam.
Remember this is supplementary so you want it to glue well, but don't worry about it *that* much, just to add strength/rigidity to a potentially weak area rather than trying to repair an obviously bad area. Don't worry at all about the baffles, generally not structural so not to worry.
If it helps, I've never met an acrylic fabricator that always gets it perfect. We all make mistakes and the better you get, the more you'll find in your own work. Of course the better you get, the more picky you get as well so they bug you more. It sounds bad but not meant to be; get used to it, it's how we all learn
James
James, haven't made a plan for the fuge yet, but needs to fit into a 24"widex54"x32"tall . I'm thinking 80 gallons, due to Melev making a similar stand for 215tank that holds 75gals and someone else suggesting a refugium area of 20% of my tank volume (45gal). Stand is actually 72"long, but DH wants 18inches for electrical and storage. Skimmer is 25" tall and I need to read it's instructions to see how deep it can be. I'd like to have the refugium in the front so that we could open the doors and see it, but that doesn't matter so much. I need it short enough for me to be able to reach to the bottom 20-24inches preferably. I could handle 24inches.
Susan
I've got a ton of refugium questions, but I guess that I should post them in another spot?
Susan
I've got a ton of refugium questions, but I guess that I should post them in another spot?
ReefEnabler
Premium Member
acrylics,
I will call the local plastic company (piedmont plastics) to see if they have any triangular rods.
US plastics has them for 1.47 a foot
Not a bad price, but can extruded acrylic be safely bonded with cell cast acrylic? is there such thing as cell cast triangle rods?
I'm almost done with that sump. I already want to make another one to get the baffles nice and perfect
if both a bottom seam and a side seam have pretty bad bubbles, is it necessary to add the triangle rod to both joints, meaning making a miter cut on one of the rods?
Ryan
I will call the local plastic company (piedmont plastics) to see if they have any triangular rods.
US plastics has them for 1.47 a foot
Not a bad price, but can extruded acrylic be safely bonded with cell cast acrylic? is there such thing as cell cast triangle rods?
I'm almost done with that sump. I already want to make another one to get the baffles nice and perfect
if both a bottom seam and a side seam have pretty bad bubbles, is it necessary to add the triangle rod to both joints, meaning making a miter cut on one of the rods?
Ryan
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Susan,
How about a 48 x 20 x 20" sump. Should be able to get the complete tank from one sheet if you cut carefully and ends up at a nominal 83 gallons. I'd recommend 1/2" but 3/8" should work as well.
ETA: 'fuge questions should be addressed in another thread. Not that folks here couldn't help but you'll prolly get a bigger audience (thus a larger consensus) in another thread
Ryan,
Yes, extruded can safely be glued to cell cast and you can find cell cast triangular rod but it is simply cut from a sheet and machined, I wouldn't bother trying to find it nor paying for it. Add the gusset to any "suspect" seam. Shouldn't really need to to a miter on the end unless that specific area needs it. Again, doesn't need to be triangular, any square rod will do the job just as well and won't have to think about miters
James
How about a 48 x 20 x 20" sump. Should be able to get the complete tank from one sheet if you cut carefully and ends up at a nominal 83 gallons. I'd recommend 1/2" but 3/8" should work as well.
ETA: 'fuge questions should be addressed in another thread. Not that folks here couldn't help but you'll prolly get a bigger audience (thus a larger consensus) in another thread
Ryan,
Yes, extruded can safely be glued to cell cast and you can find cell cast triangular rod but it is simply cut from a sheet and machined, I wouldn't bother trying to find it nor paying for it. Add the gusset to any "suspect" seam. Shouldn't really need to to a miter on the end unless that specific area needs it. Again, doesn't need to be triangular, any square rod will do the job just as well and won't have to think about miters
James
ReefEnabler
Premium Member
thanks for the info, you've been very helpful for a very long time on this thread I've seen people take up a cause for a short time before, but damn you've been at this awhile.
I think the main reason I'm getting bubbles in my baffle seams is that I am not putting shims under them. is it even possible to shim baffles, or is there another technique for those? I've just been using pins and letting the weight do things since I'm not sure how to shim or apply the right pressure.
also one of my baffles did not go in 100% perfectly, its actually sticking out about 1mm from the bottom edge on 1 side when it should be flush. The pieces is already glued in, so I guess I will need to find a way to shave it down slightly. I know its not going to be easy, and I might have to use a circular orbit sander (bad, I know, but what else will be able to shave it flush when its already in?) I'm far more worried about that gap messing up the entire bottom seal of the tank than I am about the baffle itself having a perfect seam (I can juse use 16 if the edge is not perfect)
I've seen people take up a cause for a short time before, but damn you've been at this awhile.I think the main reason I'm getting bubbles in my baffle seams is that I am not putting shims under them. is it even possible to shim baffles, or is there another technique for those? I've just been using pins and letting the weight do things since I'm not sure how to shim or apply the right pressure.
also one of my baffles did not go in 100% perfectly, its actually sticking out about 1mm from the bottom edge on 1 side when it should be flush. The pieces is already glued in, so I guess I will need to find a way to shave it down slightly. I know its not going to be easy, and I might have to use a circular orbit sander (bad, I know, but what else will be able to shave it flush when its already in?) I'm far more worried about that gap messing up the entire bottom seal of the tank than I am about the baffle itself having a perfect seam (I can juse use 16 if the edge is not perfect)
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