Acrylic fabrication questions? I can help!

Working on my first acrylic projects, sump and internal overflow box. I'm using 1/4" cast acrylic. I started with the overflow box, much smaller 1x7x11, good practice. Everything seemed to go fine, turned out ok I think. I didn't use pins, just set the pieces on and applied WO4. It wicked into the joint and seems fine, a few tiny bubble here and there. Does this seem like it will be ok even with a few bubbles? All the bubbles are in the center regions, none at the edges.

For the sump, roughly 20"x16" by 18" tall again 1/4" cast, will this same technique work or should I use the pins? Why are pins used, is it because of the weight of larger pieces preventing the solvent from wicking into the seam? What is gained from this over just setting the piece in place?

All pieces were cut on a tablesaw with a Freud 80 tooth plexiglass blade. I scraped the overflow edges with a razor blade to get them smoother before bonding. I think I will router the edges for the sump before bonding those. Will that make any difference as for using pins or not?

In my experience the way you assembled your overflow box will be just fine. As for your sump, I would for sure use the pin method after you have used the router to dress the edge. The pins allow for the solvent to come into contact with both edges of the panels. It also allows for more solvent to help "melt" the acrylic of the edges. When you pull the pins there will be a fillet on both sides of the seam. If you dont use the pins you will starve the seam of the solvent needed to react to both edges and will not create a fillet.
This is just my experience!
The pros will chime in and correct my post if is not accurate. Good luck.
BTW I use a "down cut spiral cutting bit" on my router table to dress my edges. It works great for me.
 
Dear friends! This is probably my first post on RC.. The best and the ultimate forum for lot of things, including acrylic work.. I have been reading a lot of this thread.. I have built quite a few aquariums but always used wo40... But now I wish to move to the proprietary mix of methylene chloride, acetic acid etc.. (basically for cost) .. What I haven't found properly is a diagram showing where shims and pins are kept? I m not able to get what are shims exactly and where to place them. After reading almost all pages I m lost on this, a diagram would help, sincerely, moffy!
 
Here is a couple pics that shows the pins method

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A quick description:

Take strips of MDF and apply camper shell foam to both sides.

Clean both areas to be bonded with denatured alcohol and blow of with compressed or canned air.

Put horizontal sheet on top of foam strips. Make sure the area under the joint has foam under it, as much as possible.

Place vertical piece in joint position. Leave a 1/8" lip. Secure in place with angle bracket.

Insert thin shims between foam and horizontal piece to snug the joint up as evenly as possible. There should be no visible gaps, or as close to that as you can possibly get. Some recommend inserting shims under each pin. IMO if your table is flat enough you only need them where it is necessary.

For pins, I use 28 gauge picture hanging wire from Home Depot, cut a length about 6-8" and loop & twist so you can have a 'handle'. Also I use a good wire cutters to get a clean cut end on the part that is inserted - the cutter that comes with the wire sucks.

Push down on the lip and insert pins. I do every 6", roughly. Only insert far enough to create the gap, 1-2mm should do it. For thicker material (1/2-3/4") I go a little further.

Once all the pins are in place, go around and gently tug on each one. If one pulls out easily (or falls out while putting in other pins) then shim that spot. Don't push it in too far or you'll have pins falling out in other places - sometimes far away from the one you just shimmed (this is more likely on a top/bottom joint). Repeat until you can go all the way around the joint without tugging a pin out.

Take canned air and blow out the joint. This will also reveal loose pins. If they move, that's probably OK. But if the air blows them out of the joint then that one was a bit too loose. I don't use compressed air here because it's too much pressure.

Apply the solvent to the joint. I keep some 28 gauge insulin syringes handy. If you blow a bubble into the joint, you can scoop it out with the needle before pulling the pins (don't bother trying to suck it out with the syringe, just 'sweep' it to the edge) and continue applying solvent.

Depending on the length of the joint, solvent used, time taken to apply solvent, ambient temp & humidity, etc, you may need to start pulling pins right away after you're done.

Adjust joint as necessary to get alignment right. You don't have long to do this, maybe 15 seconds after you pull the last pin.

If it's a top or bottom joint, the first thing to do after you pull the pins is to check for drift. If your table is not 100% flat and level, then the whole thing will slide and you had better correct this right away, well before the joint starts to set.

If you have to hold the piece in place, you should only need to do so for about a minute, maybe 2 at most.

I put weight on when bonding the top and esp the bottom joints. I just lay strips of wood across the top and put whatever I have on top. Like this.

DSC00254.jpg


or this

DSC00244.jpg


Ok maybe not the soccer balls.
 
Hello Floyd, This is Brilliant. Thanks a ton for such meticulous info into one post. I'm taking a printout out of your post and putting in my garage as I've done with some of James post. I like to know each and every details perfectly and then start the practice.
RC rocks!
 
so i am gluing a cylender to a flat bottom inside my tank to make a center overflow i had the cylinder cut and there small amount of play in the two mating surfaces around 8 thousandths of an inch i can rock the cylinder around a 1/32 the of an inch it is 30 inches tall the question is how much gap can i deal with when using weld on 4 to adhere these pieces i have some weld on 16 also, recomendations?
 
I would flatten the acrylic tube. Get some 220 grit sand paper, glue it to something FLAT, that is a little larger than the acrylic tube. As you move the tube back and forth rotate it 1/8 turn each time. This will produce a dead flat surface that will be suitable for welding with # 4.
Or you could use the 16 to fill the 1/32'' gap.
 
I'm hoping to make some fluidised filters and dosing containers using 110m acrylic tube. I've found a pretty reasonable price for 1m lengths but they want to charge me almost as much again to have it cut into 250mm lengths. I can get an 80T aluminium blade for my table saw for about half the price, would this be suitable for cutting acrylic tube? If not, what's the best way to cut large diameter tube?
 
I can get an 80T aluminium blade for my table saw for about half the price, would this be suitable for cutting acrylic tube?
Yes, they are ideal for acrylic :) I use the non-ferrous metal blades as well, work perfectly.
For this type of work, I wouldn't waste the money on any "acrylic blades" of any sort..

James
 
Hey i bought a used acrylic tank and the top bracing is cracked. I think the previous owners tried to carry it by the brace. So i assume i will need to cover these joints with acrylic strips to act like strapping? would i need to go over and under? Or just one way? Is a particular one better then another? Also the tank is all half inch so i am assuming again that i would to brace with 1/2" acrylic? The tank is 72x36x31 fyi.

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I would drill a hole at the end of the crack. Than use a router with V bit to open the crack and fill up the V space with Acrifix 2R 0190 mixed with Acrifix CA 0020. If no router available, use a figure saw to open the crack,,put some riveting tape under the crack as bottom and than fill it up with Acrifix 2 compound. It will be stronger as before.
 
Im building a tank 72"x24"x12"deep. Should I use 3/4" Acrylite GP?

This will be my first acrylic project so hopefully I can pull it of without any shenanigans.

Any advice for what I should have the sheet cut to? Should I have them cut the ends to 22.5" to make up for the thickness of the sheet or have the front and back panel cut short?

Do I want to drill it before I assemble or is after ok?

Thanks in advance.
 
Im building a tank 72"x24"x12"deep. Should I use 3/4" Acrylite GP?

This will be my first acrylic project so hopefully I can pull it of without any shenanigans.

Any advice for what I should have the sheet cut to? Should I have them cut the ends to 22.5" to make up for the thickness of the sheet or have the front and back panel cut short?

Do I want to drill it before I assemble or is after ok?

Thanks in advance.

Hi CoupleClowns. I assume you are intending to make this tank rimless? If so, the 3/4" is fine. If you are putting a eurobraced top or even strip bracing on top it will be fine as well, but will be exceptionally robust so certainly no problems there either ;).

I dont want to :deadhorse:, but I'm sure you have read others attempting projects like this as their first and seen them told that a build of this size as your first isn't advised without having practiced a good bit with acrylic first. Its strongly recommended you build a sump or something like an ATO Reservoir for your tank before taking on this project. Believe me, its certainly not because those materials are easier to work with. In fact, I find working with thicker materials to be easier. However, it is largely due to the cost of the "oops" factor. With 3/4" acrylic pricing in around $300-$400 a sheet as opposed to the $100-$120 a sheet that 1/4" material will cost you can see that the "cost" of an "oops" or 2 or 3 is substantially lower and less disheartening.

I hope you have a router and a good sized router table for machining the acrylic if doing this yourself. Saw cut ends WILL NOT work for this. Sanding the ends or using an acrylic scraper will also not be advised. With that being said, the cut list I would have if doing this tank for a customer would be as follows:

Bottom Piece - 72.25x24.25
Front/Back Panels - 72.25x11.5
Side Panels - 22.75x11.5

Basically, all pieces has 1/4" added to the "final" dimensions that they will be once machining is completed. The ends of the Front/Back panels and the entire bottom panel don't need to be machined prior to welding. The top and bottom of the front/back panels should be machined down to the final height of 11.25 (plus bottom thickness gives you your final height of 12). The side pieces should be machined on all 4 sides to the final dimensions of 22.5 (plus front/back thickness equals your 24) by 11.25 (again plus bottom thickness giving final height of 12).

I strongly recommend using the "Pins" method for your assembly to ensure you allow the appropriate working time for the solvent.

Weld your side pieces to the front or back panel first, let cure for at least 4 hours. Then weld the other front or back panel. The side pieces for both of these turns should be inset from the end of the panel by approx. 1/8" to allow the proper "fillet" for the solvent to dam properly so no air is sucked into the joint while curing.

Once done with this you should have all 4 sides together. It is easier to route the excess edges off of the front/back panels at this time. Now the bottom gets welded on again leaving an approx equal fillet all the way around. Once cured route the fillet edge off the entire bottom, let the whole tank cure for 5-7 days and then water test :bounce1:

As for the hole drilling, it can be done before or after the build. In your case, if the holes are going on the bottom of the tank I would actually recommend drilling AFTER you have conducted a water test since this is your first build. Use a typical hole saw for this task. To assist the process you can put about 1/2" of water in the bottom of the tank while drilling to keep the bit cool and minimize melting.

Personally, I generally drill holes before welding the acrylic together. However, this is because I use a Jasper Hole Cutting Jig with my router to cut the holes so that I get a cleaner/nicer edge than I would otherwise get with a hole saw. The only time I generally use a hole saw and do it after the build is when the hole placement has been spec'd at a very specific location by the customer.

Hope this answers your questions. Good luck :beer:
 
I will beat the dead horse on this one. I would strongly advise that you cut your teeth on another project before taking on this one. In other less softly put words, there is no way you should do this as your first project. If you decide that you truly want to do this:

1) read this entire thread. I mean from the beginning (this is the 2nd split / 3rd thread section)
2) Don't use Acrylite (you'll read why) - Plex-G or Polycast only

Per Adam's post, +1 to most of that except the following:

1) 3/4" is not thick enough for a rimless tank - you need a euro. a 72" long rimless tank would need to be at least 1.25" thick, and it's still going to bow like crazy.
2) per adam's post, bond side to front but wait a MINIMUM of 4 hours before touching the joint, but you really do need to let it sit for at least 8 hours or preferably overnight, and no flush trimming/routing for at least 20 hours. Personally with a tank this large I wouldn't flip and bond the back to the ends for >24 hrs but that's me.

But in reading this entire thread (which is a treasure-trove of information) you will likely change your mind on your exact plan.

You could actually build this tank out of 1/2" material, with a 3" perimeter eurobrace with 2 6" crossbraces for 3x 18x18 access holes and it will do nicely. That's 1/2" polycast, which would be 0.472" for Plex-G 1/2" (metric) so bumping to 3/4" Plex-g would not be a bad idea.
 
Im building a tank 72"x24"x12"deep. Should I use 3/4" Acrylite GP?

This will be my first acrylic project so hopefully I can pull it of without any shenanigans.

Any advice for what I should have the sheet cut to? Should I have them cut the ends to 22.5" to make up for the thickness of the sheet or have the front and back panel cut short?
Just to add to the above.. :)
IMO, no, should not use Acrylite GP.. It's not nearly as good as it once was. I'd use either Plexi-Glas G (cheaper) or Polycast (more expensive) as they are both very good materials.

Even with 3/4" - you can expect some bowing if going rimless. With that said, if you want rimless - use 1" for the vertical panels and say 1/2" for the bottom.
If you want the top, you can use thinner materials if you wish. 1/2" with a 3" eurobrace should do well, but if you go any thinner - you will need crossbracing...

James
 
James, what was your take again on the Cyro calculator, that it underestimates thickness on rimless and overestimates it on eurobraced, or vice versa?

I punched in 72x24 rimless and it spit out 1.137", with a top it said 0.758 but I recall you said 1/2" for 24" tall w/brace.

So I suppose 3/4" thick would offset flexing enough to allow for no crossbraces, and only the perimeter brace?

If you want the top, you can use thinner materials if you wish. 1/2" with a 3" eurobrace should do well, but if you go any thinner - you will need crossbracing...

So did you mean if the eurobrace is thinner or if the walls were thinner? Or both?
 
Is that the stuff with the plain paper mask, no print on it? My supplier calls it "general purpose" and it's about 25% less. If so read back a bit on this thread to post 2712 by James. I use that stuff for sumps and frag tanks and small tanks, but for a large tank for someone else I would only use Plex-G or Polycast
 
James, what was your take again on the Cyro calculator, that it underestimates thickness on rimless and overestimates it on eurobraced, or vice versa?
utter garbage IMO. the deflection rates are not given, and when you build according to the calculator - deflections rates are all over the place. It *usually* overestimates on braced tanks, and underestimates on rimless tanks.

What does it define as a top? does it mention *anything* about crossbracing?
These are important factors in tank design, and without these taken into account - any "formula" *may* be useful as a guideline, but other than that - trash.

I punched in 72x24 rimless and it spit out 1.137", with a top it said 0.758 but I recall you said 1/2" for 24" tall w/brace.
Build both tanks sometime... the rimless tank will scare you with the amount of deflection, and the tank with a brace will have near zero deflection if eurobraced and crossbraced.. but the formula doesn't say a damned thing about either of those things.

So I suppose 3/4" thick would offset flexing to allow for no crossbraces, and only the perimeter brace?
nope, even with 3/4" - it'll bow badly unless there is crossbracing. But again, nothing in the formula about that.


So did you mean if the eurobrace is thinner or if the walls were thinner? Or both?
I meant if the material is thinner, you'll need more crossbracing, but the reality is both.

James
 
it has no print on it , just plain paper .... i bought 2 1" sheets last yr and was going to use them on a plywood tank build , but got way side tracked on that project and scrapped it, now getting back to doing the project and going all acrylic ..... do i take a chance and use them or not ? this is for me , no one else . tank size of 96" long 48" wide 30" tall .... 1" sides 3/4" top and bottom .... i had a tencr tank a few years ago same size that was all 3/4 so 1" should be better .... but the grade of acrylic .... hmmmm
 
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