Advice for new salt person. Tanks about 8 weeks old.

[justjered]

I have a 60 gallon main tank, 30 gallon sump with 15-18 gallons of water in it.

Tank was given dry rock, live sand, RO water mixed to 1.021 and let run for about 10 days.

Added clean up crew of some snails and hermit crabs.

A week later. 2 clowns and a striped goby.

Couple weeks later a filefish and some coral frags. And a small rose bubble anemone (it's doing fine).

Last week we ordered fish from saltwaterfish. Com and had a free anemone arrive in pieces and a dead lawnmower blenny. We have a yellow watchman, 4 bangle cardinals, 3 pj cardinals, a green mandrin (died in 24 hrs and never moved one out in tank).

2 of the pj cardinals died with 36 hrs. Never really ate well either.

2 of the bangle cardinals just died the last 2 days and once they hit the bottom (at night) the clean up crew devoured them with only the lips remaining by morning.

We also tried a copper banded (it died within 2 days and had a weird bruising on it near the dot on its backside).

We've also added copapods and seaweed to our sump after the filter and skimmer. Have around 50 pounds of dry rock that has been in tank since started. 7-8 pounds of live rock and a bio-brick that was cultured at my lfs in my sump after the filters.

So am I doing something wrong or is it likely the fish weren't healthy? Or am I having issues with my tank that my tests aren't showing?

Showing 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 8.3ish ph and 0-5 nitrates (in between the colors on the test read card).

 

[ladynavyvet]

It sounds like going way too fast stocking your tank. Its not even had time to cycle.

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[lagatbezan]

Welcome to RC! a lot of information and great people here who will help you!
My first advice to you would be to slow down! you are adding too many fish at the same time with some of them requiring mature tanks specially the mandrin and the copperband butterfly. a lot of factors could have cause the deaths and you want to make sure you know why they are dying before purchasing more!
Here are a few great reads if you havent seen them yet:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1846124
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1959576
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1031074

in my opinion the most important factors in this hobby is: go slow, research and Quarantine!

 

[sde1500]

Salinity should be 1.025. Cycle probably didn't end in 10 days. Did you test? 3 fish right off the bat is pushing the limits. 4 in a few weeks is as well. Adding another 10 after than is just plain insane sorry. That's ridiculously overstocked and adding that many at once to most tanks is inviting problems. You should look into quarantining first off. But for now just stop and do some more research. What was your acclimation process?

 

[mcgyvr]

My advise...
Learn extensively FIRST... Then do.... Don't learn from expensive mistakes as you have been doing..

Saltwater can be a fantastic hobby but requires a proper education/understanding of proper maintenance/husbandry/animal care...

As stated you really took a shortcut on the initial cycle of a tank.. Which with what you stated you have should have taken NO less than 4 weeks...

Second.. Why 1.021? Most would recommend 1.025-1.026.. yes..small but can make a difference..

Third.. you are stocking too fast given the lack of proper initial cycle.. NOTHING good happens fast in this hobby.. <-- remember that

Fourth: Acclimation... What processes did you follow after receiving the animals in shipment until when they went into the tank?
Dangerous ammonia levels can develop in a fish bag once that bag is opened after shipping/during shipping.. Those levels can cause serious problems/fish deaths,etc...

Fifth: Disease... Since you don't quarantine any of your animals you could very well be introducing disease that could wipe out a whole tank overnight..

I'd suggest you stop buying/killing things and take the next month or so just learning and just enjoy the animals you haven't killed yet.

Again.. NOTHING good happens fast in this hobby.. Slow your roll.. Learn first..

 

[sde1500]

Also sounds like you have 8 fish now. If they all live, count your blessings and call it a day. That's enough for that tank. Copper Banded, I assume you mean butterflyfish, is not suited for your tank size either, so don't try another. Mandarins need a lot of pods. A month old tank you added pods to would not do the trick.

 

[justjered]

My advise...

As stated you really took a shortcut on the initial cycle of a tank.. Which with what you stated you have should have taken NO less than 4 weeks...

Based on a LFS that isn't my preferred (didn't know there was another 2 miles away and gives much better advice), 2 weeks after set up to add clean up crew for a week and fish the next. Algae formed on rocks is what they said showed it was cycled enough.

Second.. Why 1.021? Most would recommend 1.025-1.026.. yes..small but can make a difference..

That's what it tested at when first set up and again that lfs said it was good to maintain it at that. I'll look at slowly increasing it through evap and water change over the next few weeks.

Third.. you are stocking too fast given the lack of proper initial cycle.. NOTHING good happens fast in this hobby.. <-- remember that

Well hells bells. Ammonia, nitrate and nitrite levels were right and lfs said it was good (I've done fresh most of my adult life and this whole salt process is definitely way different).

Fourth: Acclimation... What processes did you follow after receiving the animals in shipment until when they went into the tank?
Dangerous ammonia levels can develop in a fish bag once that bag is opened after shipping/during shipping.. Those levels can cause serious problems/fish deaths,etc...

The first ones (all lived except 1 clown that recently died) were drip acclimated. Which after reading on here, some say is bad. So that'll be more reading before I do more.


Fifth: Disease... Since you don't quarantine any of your animals you could very well be introducing disease that could wipe out a whole tank overnight..

Dang quarantine. Never thought of that. So at this point. Setting up a 10-20 gal tank to run might be in the future.

I'd suggest you stop buying/killing things and take the next month or so just learning and just enjoy the animals you haven't killed yet.

That'll be the plan for a bit. But of course the wife wants Caribbean color in the tank. So eventually will have to add something bright for her to be
Happy. Will wait a couple months before we do anything else.

Again.. NOTHING good happens fast in this hobby.. Slow your roll.. Learn first..

Replies imbedded in the post.



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[Stolireef]

Another LFS horror story. They seem to occur daily on here.

1. Do you have your own test kits? If not, get some. If they are test strips, toss them in the garbage and get a decent set (Red Sea, Salifert, not API). You should have Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. Ammonia should always read 0. If any shows on your test kit, add some Prime to the tank and...start removing fish and finding them a safe home for the time being.

2. Read all of the stickies at the top of this forum.

 

[tazdvl]

Ok some folks that have been doing this for awhile and want to help the OP with advice that is a good thing. As I have noticed of late is a kinda piling on when folks post for advice. Yes I agree with alot of the advice I see posted, but cut this person some slack, I'm growing tired of all the "your killing fish" stuff. Seems to come off as self righteous. Lets face it we EAT fish. We also put fish that normally live in an ocean in a glass box so we can look at them. I know we should be good stewards of the pets we choose to keep, however some of these posts seem to go overboard. The OP just wanted some advice on a new Saltwater setup, doesn't need to be pounced on by "THE PROTECTORS OF THE FISH" club. Getting off soapbox now

 

[sde1500]

Ok some folks that have been doing this for awhile and want to help the OP with advice that is a good thing. As I have noticed of late is a kinda piling on when folks post for advice. Yes I agree with alot of the advice I see posted, but cut this person some slack, I'm growing tired of all the "your killing fish" stuff. Seems to come off as self righteous. Lets face it we EAT fish. We also put fish that normally live in an ocean in a glass box so we can look at them. I know we should be good stewards of the pets we choose to keep, however some of these posts seem to go overboard. The OP just wanted some advice on a new Saltwater setup, doesn't need to be pounced on by "THE PROTECTORS OF THE FISH" club. Getting off soapbox now

Not sure how you on your soapbox helped op though. He asked for advise and got a lot.

 

[monkeysee1]

You've added WAAAAY too much to a tank that size and far too fast.

Take care of the poor fish that ARE surviving by regularly testing for pH, Ammonia, Nitrates, Nitrites and Alkalinity.
Feed your fish cautiously and sparingly twice a day, and feed your corals weekly.
Do weekly large water changes religiously.
Pray that none of your surviving fish have ICH, Brook, Flukes or any other nasty hitch hiker, and DON'T add ANY more fish, corals or inverts for a LONG TIME!!

 

[justjered]

Another LFS horror story. They seem to occur daily on here.

1. Do you have your own test kits? If not, get some. If they are test strips, toss them in the garbage and get a decent set (Red Sea, Salifert, not API). You should have Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. Ammonia should always read 0. If any shows on your test kit, add some Prime to the tank and...start removing fish and finding them a safe home for the time being.

2. Read all of the stickies at the top of this forum.

I have the API test kit. I also have a separate ammonia kit I had for fresh (says does salt too) ammonia is at 0.

Keep being told on a fb page that I'm missing spikes and that's what's killing the fish. I have never gotten ammonia higher than 0.

I assume salt fish are a lot more susceptible to everything they live in. But man it's kicking my rear end that ammonia is 0. Nitrite is 0 and nitrate is less than 5.

Outside of I didn't cycle long enough and all that. What's killing them? Any other toxic stuff that could be causing them to die that I'm missing? I totally would understand if I had any ammonia showing up. But I don't. Not now or before/after any of the fish died.





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[justjered]

Ok some folks that have been doing this for awhile and want to help the OP with advice that is a good thing. As I have noticed of late is a kinda piling on when folks post for advice. Yes I agree with alot of the advice I see posted, but cut this person some slack, I'm growing tired of all the "your killing fish" stuff. Seems to come off as self righteous. Lets face it we EAT fish. We also put fish that normally live in an ocean in a glass box so we can look at them. I know we should be good stewards of the pets we choose to keep, however some of these posts seem to go overboard. The OP just wanted some advice on a new Saltwater setup, doesn't need to be pounced on by "THE PROTECTORS OF THE FISH" club. Getting off soapbox now

Thanks. That's why I'm here. To get no bs advise so I don't have fish dying. Costs to much to throw them down the toilet or see an eaten fish in the morning. And I've spent plenty on equipment that I don't want to have it running poorly so just need some real advise from people not trying to get me to buy fish over and over.


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[sde1500]

Thanks. That's why I'm here. To get no bs advise so I don't have fish dying. Costs to much to throw them down the toilet or see an eaten fish in the morning. And I've spent plenty on equipment that I don't want to have it running poorly so just need some real advise from people not trying to get me to buy fish over and over.


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So most of the fish you bought locally survived. The fish that you ordered were dying. What was your acclimation process? After getting the fish delivered what was your process before putting them in the tank?

 

[justjered]

So most of the fish you bought locally survived. The fish that you ordered were dying. What was your acclimation process? After getting the fish delivered what was your process before putting them in the tank?

Local fish. I floated 15 min and put in tank.

Shipped. Went off their procedure that supposedly works best. Drip for 3 hours.


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[lagatbezan]

Since you used live sand in the tank it might have had a rapid cycle hence why you didn't see any spikes in the test kits. Don't be discouraged, we all have been there and sometimes this is the best way to learn. Also don't always trust what your lfs tells you. "Some" are just there to make money.
Also Some must haves if you don't already:
Good test kit
Refractometer
R/O DI unit
Prime conditioner
Quarantine tank.

 

[justjered]

Well this little fella showed up today. From what I understand it's a "pineapple" sponge. Which googling and finding posts on here, says is a sign of healthy water.

So I'm seriously confused.


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[justjered]

Since you used live sand in the tank it might have had a rapid cycle hence why you didn't see any spikes in the test kits. Don't be discouraged, we all have been there and sometimes this is the best way to learn. Also don't always trust what your lfs tells you. "Some" are just there to make money.
Also Some must haves if you don't already:
Good test kit
Refractometer
R/O DI unit
Prime conditioner
Quarantine tank.

Regarding r/o di unit.

We have a ro filter on our water in the kitchen. Is that not the same?

I plan a refracto soon.

Qt, yea. How do you maintain one at such a small size? Isn't it more likely to have issues with ammonia and stuff? Like if I had a 20 gallon one.


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[Breadman03]

Regarding r/o di unit.

We have a ro filter on our water in the kitchen. Is that not the same?

I plan a refracto soon.

Qt, yea. How do you maintain one at such a small size? Isn't it more likely to have issues with ammonia and stuff? Like if I had a 20 gallon one.


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The RO is likely similar, but probably not geared toward producing as many gallons per day as we shoot for, usually 75-90 unless one has a large tank, and the DI part is where we eliminate the last little bit of contaminants left in the water, which your drinking water RO won't have.

 

[sde1500]

Local fish. I floated 15 min and put in tank.

Shipped. Went off their procedure that supposedly works best. Drip for 3 hours.


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I'd go out on a limb and say this could have been your issue. Look for the stick "death in bags" im on my phone so can't search it as easy.