Advice from the Vets? 165 Gallon Mixed Reef Build Thread...

[iCraigerz]

I'm not a "pro" by any means, but this may be a bad idea. What a tank with the investment like yours needs is powerbackup. I can't emphasize that more strongly, and it really doesn't matter where you live, though if you're in a city away from the coasts you're less vulnerable than some of us.

If your work has emergency power, then good deal. If not, I'd put it in my home and budget for a backup generator with an auto-kickover switch.

We have an electrician on staff so all of that will be taken care of for sure. I failed to mention that. Originally I had planned on putting it in my house but decided against that for several reasons. Besides, I only live a mile away from the office and this is where I spend the majority of my time - not to mention, our office atmosphere is of one that resembles Google's - lots of good times up here. Anyways, I'll post up more pictures once things progress. Tomorrow I'll be making a stop to see the stand and will snap some pictures of that. Thanks.

 

[Indymann99]

I cant tell from the pictures but I would read up on a Herbie or Bean Animal drain setup. Especially if going in your office you want the drain system to be silent and failsafe.

+1 on the office choice (especially if you spend more time in the office than at home)... like many of us do...

 

[iCraigerz]

I cant tell from the pictures but I would read up on a Herbie or Bean Animal drain setup. Especially if going in your office you want the drain system to be silent and failsafe.

+1 on the office choice (especially if you spend more time in the office than at home)... like many of us do...

Cool, thanks. I have some more reading up to do but it appears that with my built in overflow with two drains and one return I'd have to run a Herbie. Thanks for pointing that out.

Also, I will be embedding all photos from now on.

:dance:

 

[GroktheCube]

I'd echo the suggestion to look into Herbie and Bean Animal drains. IMHO, an emergency drain is absolutely mandatory, and a siphon drain is silent.

I'd also look into a booster pump for the RO/DI system, along with an auto-shutoff float valve for whatever container you are using to collect the RO/DI water. Every single major water spill incident I've ever had has been from leaving the RO/DI on without checking on it. I finally learned my lesson, and moved the whole thing down into the basement and put an auto-shutoff float valve on the rubbermaid brute barrel I started using to collect it.

Also, I'd suggest looking into Tropic Eden sand. IME, it runs rings around Carib-Sea. I used a fine grade carib-sea sand when I first set up my tank, and after a couple months of dust-storms, I removed most of it and replaced it with Tropic Eden mini-flakes.

If you're feeling adventurous, and you don't care about sand dwelling critters like conches, it also mich be worth considering a false sand bed made out of sand and epoxy. I kinda wish I had gone this way in my 120, it would have made high flow w/o sandstorms and keeping detritus in suspension much easier. If I ever feel REALLY adventurous, I might do it myself some day, I just picture getting a false substrate into the tank without draining it being a huge PITA.

I'd also consider ditching the foam in the sump, it will most likely end up being nothing more than a detritus trap. IME, it's much easier to just vacuum detritus off of the bottom of the sump.

Also, what are you doing to get adsorbed PO4 out of the dry rock before using it? Acid bath? Another thing you could consider would be setting up a rubbermaid bin with a cheapo koralia PH or two, and a low output pump pushing bin water through a 1-5 micron filter sock, and running an LaCl drip into it. Easier to do it now than to deal with high phosphate in the tank down the road.

Good setup! It looks like you're spending money on good stuff from the get go. It might be worth picking up Hanna Alk and Phosphate/phosphorus checkers. The Hanna alk checker is a MUCH faster way to test alk than any chemical test, and just as reliable.

 

[GroktheCube]

Cool, thanks. I have some more reading up to do but it appears that with my built in overflow with two drains and one return I'd have to run a Herbie. Thanks for pointing that out.

Also, I will be embedding all photos from now on.

:dance:

That's what I did with my 120. Completely silent, and I'm VERY glad for that emergency drain, I've needed it on more than one occasion :hmm2:

 

[1biguncfan]

I also had a 55 FOWLR for about maybe 2 years until I upgraded to a 155 with a 55 DIY sump. My regrets come mainly from my sump design. Ive got dual overflows running into the first chamber of my sump. In the first chamber is my octo skimmer. Next is my fuge. Then my return sump. Make sure the return pump section is big so that the water level will stay as stable as possible. I don't have a problem with that bc someone gave me some good advice about that before I built. But I wish my skimmer section was bigger to make it easier to get the skimmer out to clean. Its hard to make the two outside sections big when making the sump bc you want the fuge to be as big as possible but it will pay off in the end. Also, if I had a chance to redo it, I may drill a hole in the last chamber for a pump thats not submerged. Not sure about that but its just something Ive thought about.

 

[iCraigerz]

I'd echo the suggestion to look into Herbie and Bean Animal drains. IMHO, an emergency drain is absolutely mandatory, and a siphon drain is silent.

I'd also look into a booster pump for the RO/DI system, along with an auto-shutoff float valve for whatever container you are using to collect the RO/DI water. Every single major water spill incident I've ever had has been from leaving the RO/DI on without checking on it. I finally learned my lesson, and moved the whole thing down into the basement and put an auto-shutoff float valve on the rubbermaid brute barrel I started using to collect it.

Also, I'd suggest looking into Tropic Eden sand. IME, it runs rings around Carib-Sea. I used a fine grade carib-sea sand when I first set up my tank, and after a couple months of dust-storms, I removed most of it and replaced it with Tropic Eden mini-flakes.

If you're feeling adventurous, and you don't care about sand dwelling critters like conches, it also mich be worth considering a false sand bed made out of sand and epoxy. I kinda wish I had gone this way in my 120, it would have made high flow w/o sandstorms and keeping detritus in suspension much easier. If I ever feel REALLY adventurous, I might do it myself some day, I just picture getting a false substrate into the tank without draining it being a huge PITA.

I'd also consider ditching the foam in the sump, it will most likely end up being nothing more than a detritus trap. IME, it's much easier to just vacuum detritus off of the bottom of the sump.

Also, what are you doing to get adsorbed PO4 out of the dry rock before using it? Acid bath? Another thing you could consider would be setting up a rubbermaid bin with a cheapo koralia PH or two, and a low output pump pushing bin water through a 1-5 micron filter sock, and running an LaCl drip into it. Easier to do it now than to deal with high phosphate in the tank down the road.

Good setup! It looks like you're spending money on good stuff from the get go. It might be worth picking up Hanna Alk and Phosphate/phosphorus checkers. The Hanna alk checker is a MUCH faster way to test alk than any chemical test, and just as reliable.

Good call on everything. I've read good things on the Tropic Eden substrates as well. Unfortunately, right now I'm stuck with what I got . However, it's entirely possible that I could place yet another order - probably better to do things right the first time around - or I could maybe just place my MP-40's up a little higher in the tank (?).

As far as the Marco Rocks I was planning on giving them a good rinse with the hose followed by a RO/DI dip. Do you think that would be sufficient? Keep in mind I will be running my MR1 Monster with RowaPhos on day 1.

Here's a few more pics of the base of the stand. It will be ready for pickup on Monday :beer:!

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[iCraigerz]

I also had a 55 FOWLR for about maybe 2 years until I upgraded to a 155 with a 55 DIY sump. My regrets come mainly from my sump design. Ive got dual overflows running into the first chamber of my sump. In the first chamber is my octo skimmer. Next is my fuge. Then my return sump. Make sure the return pump section is big so that the water level will stay as stable as possible. I don't have a problem with that bc someone gave me some good advice about that before I built. But I wish my skimmer section was bigger to make it easier to get the skimmer out to clean. Its hard to make the two outside sections big when making the sump bc you want the fuge to be as big as possible but it will pay off in the end. Also, if I had a chance to redo it, I may drill a hole in the last chamber for a pump thats not submerged. Not sure about that but its just something Ive thought about.

You know, I'm really glad you mentioned that cause right now as it stands the first compartment which my skimmer sits in is extremely small for the skimmer I have in there - things are pretty tight. Also, the last compartment is very small (it fits the width of my return pump and that's about it). It was also suggested that I remove the foam as well. This weekend I'm going to tear the whole thing down and rebuild it. I'll get pics up and update accordingly. Thanks again guys. I really can't say enough how much I appreciate the advice.

 

[GroktheCube]

As far as the Marco Rocks I was planning on giving them a good rinse with the hose followed by a RO/DI dip. Do you think that would be sufficient? Keep in mind I will be running my MR1 Monster with RowaPhos on day 1.

Here's a few more pics of the base of the stand. It will be ready for pickup on Monday :beer:!

Stand is looking good!

I'd suggest at least letting the rocks sit in some circulating water for a week. After a week, test phosphate to see if any is leeching out. If it is leeching, it would be MUCH easier to deal with before the rock is put in the tank. I didn't do that with my Marco Rock prior to setting up my tank, and I wish I had.

The thing with phosphate adsorbing media is that it has finite capacity, and generally speaking, the capacity/$$ ratio doesn't make sense when you have rocks releasing a substantial amount of phosphate into the water. The media ends up being used up VERY quickly, and needs near constant replacement. Given the cost of the media and the time it would take, it just isn't worth it compared to an acid bath or LaCl drip. Even relatively high capacity phosphate adsorbing media will be exhausted in hours at most by a couple hundred pounds of rock releasing phosphate into the water.

It's good to at least check if it's leeching before sticking it in the tank. You could run an LaCl drip after the tank is set up (by far the best way to lower very high phosphate levels caused by rocks/substrate releasing phosphate), but it requires a lot more babysitting than an acid bath or LaCl drip in a rubbermaid would.

 

[GroktheCube]

You know, I'm really glad you mentioned that cause right now as it stands the first compartment which my skimmer sits in is extremely small for the skimmer I have in there - things are pretty tight. Also, the last compartment is very small (it fits the width of my return pump and that's about it). It was also suggested that I remove the foam as well. This weekend I'm going to tear the whole thing down and rebuild it. I'll get pics up and update accordingly. Thanks again guys. I really can't say enough how much I appreciate the advice.

While you're at it, make sure you can easily remove the skimmer cup for cleaning, and easily adjust the gate valve on the overflow from under the stand! That's something a lot of people overlook during sump/stand construction. A 55 is a pretty tall tank, will there be enough room between its edge and the top of the stand for the cup to be easily removed without tilting? Tilting a full skimmer cup can be a very messy experience

Make sure you can reach EVERY inch of the sump from the front door of the stand as well, while being able to see what you are doing. You could build a cardboard mockup of the stand around the sump to give you an idea. I can promise that if you have an area of the sump that's really hard to reach, you're going to need to put your hand there more often than you'd like, as Murphy's Law dictates.

What sort of silicone are you using for the sump? I used cheapo LFS silicone and then baffles when I first built my sump, and ended up needing to rebuild the thing a couple months after the tank was up with thick cell cast acrylic and good industrial silicone.

 

[iCraigerz]

Also, I'd suggest looking into Tropic Eden sand. IME, it runs rings around Carib-Sea. I used a fine grade carib-sea sand when I first set up my tank, and after a couple months of dust-storms, I removed most of it and replaced it with Tropic Eden mini-flakes.

I'd be curious to see what this looks like in your tank. Would you mind putting up a photo of yours if you have time? Also, I wonder if there's a difference, performance wise, between this and the CaribSea Special Grade Reef? According to their websites the Tropic Eden Mini-Flakes are 2 mm. & the CS's Special Grade Reef is 1-2 mm. Only reason why I'm asking is because there's a possibility that I could exchange the Bimimi Pink for the Special Grade Reef at the LFS. They don't carry Tropic Eden & I'd have to buy that outright & I'm not sure exactly what I'd do with the Bimimi Pink that I already have. I guess I could put it on Craigslist but that's kind of a pain.

It's good to at least check if it's leeching before sticking it in the tank. You could run an LaCl drip after the tank is set up (by far the best way to lower very high phosphate levels caused by rocks/substrate releasing phosphate), but it requires a lot more babysitting than an acid bath or LaCl drip in a rubbermaid would.

What exactly is a LaCl drip ?

While you're at it, make sure you can easily remove the skimmer cup for cleaning, and easily adjust the gate valve on the overflow from under the stand! That's something a lot of people overlook during sump/stand construction. A 55 is a pretty tall tank, will there be enough room between its edge and the top of the stand for the cup to be easily removed without tilting? Tilting a full skimmer cup can be a very messy experience

Make sure you can reach EVERY inch of the sump from the front door of the stand as well, while being able to see what you are doing. You could build a cardboard mockup of the stand around the sump to give you an idea. I can promise that if you have an area of the sump that's really hard to reach, you're going to need to put your hand there more often than you'd like, as Murphy's Law dictates.

What sort of silicone are you using for the sump? I used cheapo LFS silicone and then baffles when I first built my sump, and ended up needing to rebuild the thing a couple months after the tank was up with thick cell cast acrylic and good industrial silicone.

In the beginning I had originally planned for the stand to be only 32". After receiving my skimmer I realized that the stand would have to be taller so I decided to go with 40". This will allow me more than enough room to be able to remove the collection cup as well as get into the sump area to work.

This is the silicone I'm using. I got it from Modular Marine's eBay store who's the same guy I ordered my baffles from.

 

[iCraigerz]

Also, on another note...

I noticed yesterday that the vinyl work on my tank was less than sub-par. When the vinyl was applied it was definitely applied after the trim was mounted on the tank so there is a contrast in color between where the vinyl stops and the trim starts on the back of the tank when looking through the tank. Obviously, I'm not happy about this. I contacted DSA & spoke to Scott and explained to him to situation. He wasn't very pleased to hear this as he stated when special orders come in (a black background constitutes a special order) the vinyl is applied before the trim, thus eliminating any color contrasts/inconsistencies. So, either one of two things happened, and he's looking into them both. The first one being that the company I ordered the tank through applied the vinyl themselves or DSA didn't do a good job. Either way, as stated before, he's not happy and is looking into what happened and seems more than willing to get to the bottom of this and wants to help me out here. Here's some pictures of what I'm talking about.

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[ColtonMeng]

+1 on the RODI booster pump. Invaluable in my case as I wasn't getting but 30PSI from my main.

 

[fscmocsaj]

Good looking tank and equipment. Good luck

 

[iCraigerz]

+1 on the RODI booster pump. Invaluable in my case as I wasn't getting but 30PSI from my main.

So, how did you go about checking this? That's been something I've wondered about.

 

[BenBradford]

I have had most of my regrets from not wiring and plumbing everything in the best way the first time. Take the extra time to make sure that everything is in order and organized. The cleaner the undercarriage is the more likely that it will remain clean.

Another thought is to make the long plan now as far as the stocking of the tank. I have regretted more purchases from the lfs that were impulse buys than not. Make a list and come up with an end picture and start checking of the list from the start. A very simple example would be adding a wandering anemone later that isn't happy where you want it to be and challenges other coral. Another issue I had was with a frogspawn throwing out a 18 inch sweeper tentacle that interfered with other softies.

Build looks great btw.

 

[GroktheCube]

I'd be curious to see what this looks like in your tank. Would you mind putting up a photo of yours if you have time? Also, I wonder if there's a difference, performance wise, between this and the CaribSea Special Grade Reef? According to their websites the Tropic Eden Mini-Flakes are 2 mm. & the CS's Special Grade Reef is 1-2 mm. Only reason why I'm asking is because there's a possibility that I could exchange the Bimimi Pink for the Special Grade Reef at the LFS. They don't carry Tropic Eden & I'd have to buy that outright & I'm not sure exactly what I'd do with the Bimimi Pink that I already have. I guess I could put it on Craigslist but that's kind of a pain.

I'll try to get some shots up later. The mini flakes do not look gravel-ey. Special grade is a pretty similar size, and I've heard a lot of good things about it too.

What exactly is a LaCl drip ?

Lanthanum Chloride is a chemical that when it comes into contact with phosphate forms lanthanum phosphate, a solid precipitate that cannot redisolve under normal salt water conditions. It is sold as pool phosphate remover.

It is extremely strong, and can react with alkalinity to form lanthanum carbonate if there is no or little phosphate present. The precipitate is also a very fine powder. Usually people dillute it heavily, ~5ml to a liter of RODI, or even less. Tank water is then passed through a very fine filter sock, in the 1 to 5 micron range, and the dilute LaCl solution is slowly dripped into the stream of water entering the filter sock. The filter sock will catch all the precipitated phosphate, and the constant flow of system water and slow drip makes sure no unreacted LaCl enters the system. It is not toxic, but it is very fine, hard, sharp, and insoluble so it can severely irritate gills or filter feeding apparatuses.

It is by far the easiest and most economical way to get rid of very large amounts of phosphate. You can get a bottle of it from a pool supply shop for $15 that's enough of it to remove 10+ ppm of phosphate from many thousands of gallons. The amount of GFO required to do the same would be thousands of dollars.

In the beginning I had originally planned for the stand to be only 32". After receiving my skimmer I realized that the stand would have to be taller so I decided to go with 40". This will allow me more than enough room to be able to remove the collection cup as well as get into the sump area to work.

Good thinking. That's something most people overlook on their first tank.

This is the silicone I'm using. I got it from Modular Marine's eBay store who's the same guy I ordered my baffles from.

I honestly don't know how good that silicone is. Make sure you give it much longer to cure than the tube says, the thicker the bead the longer, and test it out before putting it in the system.

If it DOESN'T smell like vinegar while curing, give it several weeks.

 

[iCraigerz]

Almost filled the first can...

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[Reefmedic79]

Do you have 24hr access to the tank?

Make sure you have the net module for the Apex, so it can notify you via text, phone or email if there are any problems with the tank. Also leak sensors.

 

[iCraigerz]

Advice from the Vets? 165 Gallon Mixed Reef Build Thread...

Do you have 24hr access to the tank?

Make sure you have the net module for the Apex, so it can notify you via text, phone or email if there are any problems with the tank. Also leak sensors.

The office is a mile and a half away. So yes, I have 24 hour access. I also have a key and the code for the alarm. I do plan on getting both of those modules once I get closer to setting everything up. The stand will be done on Monday but I'm going to wait to hear from Scott from DSA before I do anything. I don't know if you browsed through the whole thread or not but the vinyl work was decent at best and he's working on trying to figure out what happened since it came from a third party vendor. By the way, I've been extremely impressed with them so far as far as customer service goes. Besides I want to make sure these rocks aren't leaching any phosphates.