advice:sumps in garage? anyone?

[fishnerd]

Just wondering if anyone has their sumps or frag tanks in their garage. How do you guys deal with the heat and humidity in our fantastic sacramento weather. I will not be using a chiller.

I am setting up my 325g and I wanted to see how you guys are dealing with the heat/ humidity.


thanks in advance,
bryan

 

[jackfishy]

In sacramento...garage.....and no chiller...wow. Is this a trick question ? or I am missing something.....



Jack

 

[ned2getfish]

can you say problems

 

[pbetito]

I suggest that unless you buy a few swamp coolers for the garage you seriously reconsider..... Just my $.02

 

[MrMikeB]

Yeah, unless you can keep ambient at around 75, and no indirect light - those temps will climb in the Sac summer on a tank that large with pumps, lights, etc... With a 375 gallon system, why are you set on not using a chiller?

 

[mpoletti]

IME, a chiller is needed. I only know a few reefers that can keep their houses cool enough to keep temps stable. In the Garage, that would be even more of task. If you are going to set up this nice system, don't fight it by not getting all the neccasary equipment. It would be ashamem to loose your livestock because of a heat wave. The amount of stress that you will cause yourself when you watch the news everyday is not worth the grand for a chiller.

 

[P.Kelly]

FWIW: Do the BTU calculations to determine how big of a chiller you will need, rather than relying on the size rating per the manufacturer. These sizes are often based upon pulling temps down by 10 or more degrees, and you may only need 3-5 degrees in the summer and 1-2 in the spring or fall.

 

[quan325i]

I'm attempting to do this as we speak. My main motivation is:

1. prevention of flooding
2. Ease of maintenance
3. Ease of future equipment addition.
4. Noise and messy stuff on my wood floor
5. My protein skimmer won't fit under my stand

During the summer, my new house never gets beyond 80F downstair . I used to have to add bottled ice to my tank during the summer in my old house and had to deal with water spillage. With the sump in the garage, these should be no problem. My sump is about 20g while my tank is 100 so worst case, I probably have to run my chiller for 2-3 hr max.

QN

 

[mpoletti]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10424870#post10424870 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by petes97
FWIW: Do the BTU calculations to determine how big of a chiller you will need, rather than relying on the size rating per the manufacturer. These sizes are often based upon pulling temps down by 10 or more degrees, and you may only need 3-5 degrees in the summer and 1-2 in the spring or fall.

That is not always the best choice. I would get the biggest one you can get. By oversizing your chiller, it will run for only a few minutes, saving heat dispursement and energy, as well as noise. The heat that a chiller puts off contributes to the ambient temperature, therefore, contributes right back to the temp of your tank. It is a vicious paradox that people fight when they are trying to save an extra buck or two.

 

[ned2getfish]

Let me show you why it will be best to run a large chiller these are fthe fish i lost last year

This is just a few pics I lost some very expensive fish being cheap

 

[P.Kelly]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10425133#post10425133 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Marko9
That is not always the best choice. I would get the biggest one you can get. By oversizing your chiller, it will run for only a few minutes, saving heat dispursement and energy, as well as noise. The heat that a chiller puts off contributes to the ambient temperature, therefore, contributes right back to the temp of your tank. It is a vicious paradox that people fight when they are trying to save an extra buck or two.

I think you misunderstood my intent. It is always the best choice to do the math and understand how a product will interact with your environment. I would never use the "suggestion" of a vendor outright without additional research to size a component for my aquarium.

I don't want to start a war, but I would like to request an sources you have suggesting that running a chiller less to extract the same number of BTUs (or heat) will contribute less heat into the surrounding air. I am willing to concede the point with evidence, but it doesn't mesh with "my" understanding of heat transfer.

My understanding of heat transfer is that the heat in the air is directly proportional to the amount of heat extracted from the water. So, if I understand the physics, the heat transfer to the air is going to be roughly the same regardless of the size of the chiller, with the exception of super oversizing or undersizing, due to mechanical heat exchange.

One could argue so many points regarding chillers. While it would appear to be best to run a chiller for only a short period of time repeatedly, you need to take into consideration the wear an tear on the device and the temperature fluctuation in the tank (depending on your tolerances).

Again, noise has a relationship to size, but also to quality. I've found noise is all over the place, so demo a chiller first.

Anyway, I've fired of an email on this very topic to a NASA HVAC engineer I know and I'll post his response when I get it.

 

[leakytank]

Nerdy was asking: if I go fool around all summer without wearing any protection....what will happen? hehe..

 

[tacocat]

Bryan,

It will work....if you plan on keeping desert pupfish, or if the sump is 100% insulated and covered.

Things to know about keeping a sump in the garage.

1. You have to LOVE rust, I mean really LOVE having rust on your cars and tools.

2. You must like having moths, dirt and animal hair in your tank.

3. You need to enjoy having saltwater eat away any untreated concrete.

4. You will need to appreciate the increased chances of electrocution because of the concrete.

 

[ned2getfish]

Its a bad idea

 

[fishsoldseprtly]

Bryan, it can work. I have mines in the garage and I have a chiller just in case but never had to set it up. My temps are from 77 at the lowest and does not get more than 81 even when temps outside are 100+.
I have sps and some rare fish and the tank and I have had no probs.
I run a fan, I removed the skin to my stand, run reverse lighting and I have my garage door open for ventilation. BUt I have had good success for more a while now.

 

[dots]

Yes it will work, but it should be insulated as much as possible to avoid temperature extremes. How much will be effected by the heat (or cold in the winter time) will depend on the size of the display and the run to and from the sump and how big the sump itsself is.

In the end, if you can create a "closet" to house you fish stuff to avoid contamination and insulate while providing a place for electical and drainage for the system, the added "expenses" in possibly having to get a larger heater and or chiller not only would be sound investments, but piece of mind.

But I would research other designs and stay away from just slapping a sump on the shelf above the washer and dryer next to the fabric softner rather create a well thought out space for you equipment to avoid contamination and thermal problems.

check out Steve's, see the bi-fold doors, a scaled down version simmilar to a closet would be exactly what I would be shooting for.
http://www.oregonreef.com/sub_tank.htm

 

[Unarce]

I've heard of instances where the sump was placed directly on the concrete, which kept it remarkably cool. May become an issue during the cold months, but if your garage is insulated, there shouldn't be much of a difference. At least until you park a warm car in there

 

[tacocat]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10426601#post10426601 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Unarce
I've heard of instances where the sump was placed directly on the concrete, which kept it remarkably cool. May become an issue during the cold months, but if your garage is insulated, there shouldn't be much of a difference. At least until you park a warm car in there

I also noticed that evaporation was quite high in the winter. I think it evaporated more water in the winter than in the summer. Although we had an extremely dry winter this year.

 

[dots]

I think my evap rate was greater this last winter than currently.

 

[P.Kelly]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=10425811#post10425811 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by petes97
I think you misunderstood my intent. It is always the best choice to do the math and understand how a product will interact with your environment. I would never use the "suggestion" of a vendor outright without additional research to size a component for my aquarium.

I don't want to start a war, but I would like to request an sources you have suggesting that running a chiller less to extract the same number of BTUs (or heat) will contribute less heat into the surrounding air. I am willing to concede the point with evidence, but it doesn't mesh with "my" understanding of heat transfer.

My understanding of heat transfer is that the heat in the air is directly proportional to the amount of heat extracted from the water. So, if I understand the physics, the heat transfer to the air is going to be roughly the same regardless of the size of the chiller, with the exception of super oversizing or undersizing, due to mechanical heat exchange.

One could argue so many points regarding chillers. While it would appear to be best to run a chiller for only a short period of time repeatedly, you need to take into consideration the wear an tear on the device and the temperature fluctuation in the tank (depending on your tolerances).

Again, noise has a relationship to size, but also to quality. I've found noise is all over the place, so demo a chiller first.

Anyway, I've fired of an email on this very topic to a NASA HVAC engineer I know and I'll post his response when I get it.

Okay, so Mr. NASA HVAC had the following to say when inquired about 2 units, one with double the BTUs of the smaller, but both large enough to cool at tank X degrees:

"You are correct in saying that the duty cycle would be higher for the smaller unit (assuming both units are big enough to drive the water temp to the lower cut-off temperature). Total energy removed would be the same, averaged over time. May be that the larger motor would be more efficient, slightly, as is usually the case with electric motors. Would have slightly more uniformity in tank temperature during the cooldown cycle due to the longer active cooling time with the smaller of the two...But, all this is essentially a wash. Buy the cheapest of the two that works."