Advice

to the issue of LEDs -- AI just released PAR data on their modules (using CREE high power LEDs). MH gets blown out of the water.

their results show 1 74W LED putting out twice as much par as a 250W MH... much more uniform spread. 700+ PAR max at 19 inches away from light (through air, not water).

Yeah, thats through air, not water, big difference.
My unit gave me a PAR of 1350 off the bulb dry, but at 24" it was about 50
I agree that is about to change, real soon, and there are DYI guys doing good things, but other issues are coming into play, mainly spotlighting and heat.
 
thanks

thanks

I appreciate all the feedback.

Great feedback is like the maroons going in back and forth. Of course those clowns are extremely aggressive so they would be a no for me anyways.

With this feedback maybe I will only go with 2 carpets. That way I won't have 2 carpets without clownfish hosting!
 
This is that tank, and even w/ about 5' of seperation(6x2x2 tank) my clowns cruised back and forth all day.
2 nems may be better for you than 3, they do get big.
I would probably even just get one at first and make sure it does well, cause as you know they are not cheap, and it's more practical for the animals.

Brandnew180july108061-1.jpg
 
Yeah, thats through air, not water, big difference.
My unit gave me a PAR of 1350 off the bulb dry, but at 24" it was about 50
I agree that is about to change, real soon, and there are DYI guys doing good things, but other issues are coming into play, mainly spotlighting and heat.

what do you mean big difference? i agree the par numbers will get diluted in the water but not moreso with LED vs. MH... is that what you're suggesting?

there is wider spread with MH, but in the results they just released at 19 inches through air for both MH and LED, the AI LED puts out twice the peak par of the MH. both will have lower par through water than through air but you're not arguing that the relative intensity of the LED and MH will change when you add water are you?

the 700 par is 19 inches away from the light through air. the 250MH puts out 350 par at the same distance through air. both will have lower par numbers over water but the LED blows this MH out of water with so much more par output.

not sure if you are trying to say that isnt true, but it seems like it so wanted to clarify.

spotlighting is a definite issue. the results of this even show that as you can see the MH has a wider coverage area (though weaker) than the LED. what that means is that you need more LEDs to cover the same area as MH if you want to avoid spotlighting, or you'll have super intense light in a few areas (i.e. directly under the LEDs) and shadows in other places, which isnt necessarily bad. heat is not an issue that i've read complaints about. most of the DIY LED builds are overcooled as are the commercial units, and the LEDs put NO heat into the tank, whereas MH put a good amount by most accounts. I can attest to LEDs not even heating up their heatsinks / casings.
 
Par test for LED

Par test for LED

The system I was looking at was aquaillumination. They just posted some par data on their home page. Anyone that understand this want to translate it for us newbies? :thumbsup:
 
Well, having just tested the Ecoxotic Panorama, I'm a little biased, I dig that fixture, but even then, it's not enough for that nem.
The DIY guys are doing awesome LED builds, but they push em a bit.
There's new stuff coming out that may work better at this time.
I would not advise getting either LED fixtues at this time expecting strong light that would accomidate sps or heavy light needy nems at depth.
Not just yet.
For mixed reef they are fine.
BTAs on rocks fine, but not what you are looking at.
 
The system I was looking at was aquaillumination. They just posted some par data on their home page. Anyone that understand this want to translate it for us newbies? :thumbsup:

to the issue of LEDs -- AI just released PAR data on their modules (using CREE high power LEDs). MH gets blown out of the water.

their results show 1 74W LED putting out twice as much par as a 250W MH... much more uniform spread. 700+ PAR max at 19 inches away from light (through air, not water).

the MH chart shows that it has much WIDER spread (but i think we already knew that) -- the 'plate' if you will for the MH looks to be 35 x 30 inches, the 'plate' for the LED is about 25 x 25 inches.

think of those charts as a piece of paper flat on a table directly beneath a light hung 19 inches above the table. this represents the par on that sheet of paper. it's all at 19 inches so that's kind of the assumed penetration. (it makes sense to assume that the higher the par the more it would penetrate further than 19 inches; the LEDs have higher max par in these charts).

the max par number for LED is around 700, while the max for MH is only about 350.

bottom line - AI LED is much more intense but the light spread isnt as wide. so it's like an intense spotlight (LED) vs a weaker flood lamp (MH). you would need more than one unit to get the kind of 'spread' / 'coverage' / 'left to right or front to back' light as a comparable MH, but where there is light, directly below the LED unit, it will be much more intense.

Well, having just tested the Ecoxotic Panorama, I'm a little biased, I dig that fixture, but even then, it's not enough for that nem.
The DIY guys are doing awesome LED builds, but they push em a bit.
There's new stuff coming out that may work better at this time.
I would not advise getting either LED fixtues at this time expecting strong light that would accomidate sps or heavy light needy nems at depth.
Not just yet.
For mixed reef they are fine.
BTAs on rocks fine, but not what you are looking at.

The Ecoxotic unit is not in the same league as AI in terms of light intensity so I would agree with you the Ecoxotic units would not grow SPS or anemones. I dont consider them high power LEDs.

Ecoxotic uses only 1W LEDs, compared to the 3W LEDs used by AI and every good DIY build. "N-R" [figure it out] .com is sort of home base on the internet for aquarium LEDs and they've got reviews of this light and tons of information on DIY builds there if you're interested. PM me if you want a few links.

I have researched DIY LED builds extensively (in fact I purchased all of the parts to DI'M' and know how to build a fixture of my own). I'm not concerned about PAR output frankly. LEDs with the right optical lenses put out a very high amount of PAR.

however i agree with you that in my mind i am not sure they are the BEST thing for SPS and nems. the reason is not intensity, but spectrum. LEDs do not have any significant UV spectrum, which some believe help give corals their best color. i have recently seen a number of all-LED lit tanks with great SPS coloration, so perhaps this shouldnt be a concern with the latest technology.

that's the only doubt i have about LEDs though. they provide great light (these new AIs are incredibly bright, even as low as 40-50%!) and flexibility. i suppose i'm betting they do provide adequate spectrum since i bought the AI lights, but i guess i'll see for myself as time goes by and i attempt sps / nems.
 
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thanks johnny

thanks johnny

sounds like most likely I will need 3 of the AI units to cover a 6 foot wide tank. If I go with something like davocean's tank he provided in a pic.

Besides the concern that you raised regarding spectrum, my other concern is spotlighting. Like you mentioned the LEDs are much more intense for small area.

From the comments I have read online people have had to turn their AI lights to 50% or lower to not light shock their existing coral. But I have also read that these systems do best at 100%. I'm not exactly sure what they mean by that. Does this mean that at 50% the range of the lights is smaller and not just intensity of the lighting?

While in the new tank build I don't have this problem, I'm also considering getting the AI lights for a 125g tank that I have. Its about 5 feet wide 2 feet deep and about 2 feet high. (something like that ...) Since I use 6 T5s currently I do have a bunch of coral sitting at the top of the tank. (BTW my sps are growing fantastic.)
At 5 feet wide my concern is I won't have room for 3 AIs but probably only 2. Which means that I won't have the same range I think.

I'll give AI a call today after I measure my tank again and get their recommendations.
 
I disagree with your assessment that 3 modules will be enough for a 6 foot long tank if you plan to use them the way most are at a relatively short distance from water level. You will likely need double that amount perhaps 5 if you don't mind some dark areas and are creative with your spacing. Unless you plan on mounting them very high in which case the intensity will be much lower. Is that what you're getting at?

If your plan is to mount them very high given that people don't seem to be taking advantage of the full I can't give any guidance there.

i would be surprised / interested if AI tells you anything different.
 
okay

okay

so one module is only enough to cover approx 1 foot in width? Ouch if thats the case I"ll probably go MH.
 
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