AEFW Ethics

[Logzor]

Obvious you did not knowingly bring in AEFW to your tank. Obviously you should have QT'd the frags before putting them in your tank to begin with!

So, what are the best ethical guidelines to follow?

Assuming you have a very well controlled population:

I do feel it is safe to clip off a tip, dip it to ensure there are none tagging along, and warn potential buyers that AEFW have been found in the tank but the frag has been dipped and should be safe.

Will this scare off too many people? Is this fair when right across the room there is some guy who has no idea about AEFW or if he has them and is selling frags with no warning?

I suppose it should not matter but it kind of irks me.

The other camp (quite un-ethical in most peoples opinion):

People should QT regardless and if they are not knowledgeable they suffer the consequents.

This is pretty nasty and I would never do it. Still, I feel that learning the hard way was one of the best things that has happened to me in this hobby.


Another big question:

At what point do you not tell people? Assuming you have eradicated them when do you not warn people that AEFW were in your tank? A QT does not ensure pure eradication.

What about pests the hobby is not even aware of yet? What about zoas who will spread zoa pox yet are doing fine in their current system?

Regardless if people with pests stop selling corals there are still a massive influx from the wild and large distributors. So what is the best way to teach people to QT, actually getting the pest in their system?

I have yet to meet a person who QT's and has not had an experience of getting a pest in their DT.

What are your thoughts?

 

[landlord]

Re: AEFW Ethics

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15402892#post15402892 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Logzor
I have yet to meet a person who QT's and has not had an experience of getting a pest in their DT.

Oh, but you have Logan

IMO - Be upfront and honest about everything past or present. If people do not want to buy frags it is potentially their loss. At the end of the day you'll sleep better with this approach

landlord

 

[mpoletti]

I would think it is only a common courtesy that if you have AEFW, or any other known predator, that you let that point be known up front.

 

[Logzor]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15403559#post15403559 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mpoletti
I would think it is only a common courtesy that if you have AEFW, or any other known predator, that you let that point be known up front.

I feel that this is pretty much agreed upon. What about the last part, regarding when you stop telling people after having QT'd your corals?

What is the best way to get people to QT?

I guess another question to everyone is: Would you buy a coral that came from an AEFW tank?

Landlord, I saw you dip some ricordia and they went straight into your tank!

 

[mpoletti]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15403592#post15403592 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Logzor
I feel that this is pretty much agreed upon. What about the last part, regarding when you stop telling people after having QT'd your corals?

What is the best way to get people to QT?

QT is a choice. You can not make be use protection

People know what I have gone through. I do not hide it at all. I make it known that I fought the good fight. Its been 8 months that everything is back in the tank. I tell people that I am very secure in my tank, but.....there is always a possiblity

 

[Whisperer]

I bought a frag pack from one of the sponsors here and got free red bugs

 

[mpoletti]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15403667#post15403667 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Whisperer
I bought a frag pack from one of the sponsors here and got free red bugs

IMO, 60-70% of reefers have red bugs :lol: They are no big deal to treat; but maybe that is just me. Besides, revive knocks them right off during a dip.

 

[dreaminmel]

My feelings on this are below and were posted in a different thread this morning. I'd only add that I would (and have) purchased frags from a known aefw tank. The best things to do in that scenario are dip and snap off any base that could be hiding eggs. I had recently read somewhere someone stating the aefw hatchlings may possibly be entering into the skeleton of acro upon hatching and emerging later. Due to this QT would still be ideal to watch for juvis.

"Also, fwiw regardless of how big the coral is if it was my tank I'd do the same thing I did before, completely eradicate them and be done with it. I don't look down at those who do the basting method but I just don't have the time for it. The other thing that turns me off from it is that unless you have medicated and assured eradication, you ethically cannot sell frags from your tank to people without telling them you have AEFW. Even though it has been 3 years since I killed them off I still warn people to always dip for them regardless of who you get stuff from and tell them of my episode. Of course, I also have the same stance on redbugs even though a lot of people live with them as well. In my little world I relate living with redbugs to allowing your dog to walk around with fleas. Sure it'll live... but how happy will it be? Again, to each their own on treatment methods. Each person is individual and unique so my reasons and thoughts may not mesh with what's important to someone else. I would just like to stop seeing these things spread around so much and am starting to lose hope that we'll ever see progress with that..."

 

[JasonD]

I hate red bugs!:mad2:

 

[shaggy14]

i have gotten redbugs twice before. i was freaked the first time until i saw how easy they were to kill. that was 7-8 months ago and i still tell people that i have had redbugs in the past, but havent seen one in a while. if i were to purchase a frag from someone that had AEFW i would definitely want to know that they had them at one point, whether or not they had treated for or QT'd them. that way i would know to be very cautious. id even set up a QT tank just for those frags =)

 

[flyyyguy]

Re: AEFW Ethics

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15402892#post15402892 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Logzor


I have yet to meet a person who QT's and has not had an experience of getting a pest in their DT.

What are your thoughts?

you have met me and I would be an exception to your rule.

If you have a well thought out qt program and still get pests then your qt and new specimen introduction process is simply flawed.


I have an elaborate qt set up and program going and can say with confidence that NOTHING gets by before being introduced to any of my displays. Becasue of this I can confidently guarantee I am pest free to anyone who purchases or trades with me.

Granted, the thoroughness in which I now do things was developed as a result of paying the price many times over along the way due to being careless or having inadequate dip/qt practices to begin with.

Simply having a qt system set up is in no way a guarantee.,....but running it properly surely is.

 

[landlord]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15403592#post15403592 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Logzor
Landlord, I saw you dip some ricordia and they went straight into your tank!

Logan - You're right :lol: I was extremely extremely lucky during the 12 months I stocked my tank. I had no QT setup, just a bunch of Iodine to dip in. I did only purchase unmounted frags and inspected them under a large magnifying glass religiously for pests. But at the end of the day I simply got lucky, hands down.

Kurt

 

[Logzor]

Re: Re: AEFW Ethics

Re: Re: AEFW Ethics

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15406976#post15406976 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by flyyyguy
you have met me and I would be an exception to your rule.

If you have a well thought out qt program and still get pests then your qt and new specimen introduction process is simply flawed.


I have an elaborate qt set up and program going and can say with confidence that NOTHING gets by before being introduced to any of my displays. Becasue of this I can confidently guarantee I am pest free to anyone who purchases or trades with me.

Granted, the thoroughness in which I now do things was developed as a result of paying the price many times over along the way due to being careless or having inadequate dip/qt practices to begin with.

Simply having a qt system set up is in no way a guarantee.,....but running it properly surely is.

Good point Flyyy. Would you consider anything short of the 6-week QT improper?

I am in the process of setting a QT tank connect to my DT. When it is not QT the ball-valves are opened. Of course, in QT mode it is totally cut off. I am just using my 1260 and adding some plumbing to hook up a 40B. This will allow me to have fresh tank water ready at all times. I also plan on hooking up an extra drain (aside from the one going into the DT sump) so I can drain water from the QT and fill it back up with fresh tank water. So far I think it is a good plan.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15407443#post15407443 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by landlord
Logan - You're right :lol: I was extremely extremely lucky during the 12 months I stocked my tank. I had no QT setup, just a bunch of Iodine to dip in. I did only purchase unmounted frags and inspected them under a large magnifying glass religiously for pests. But at the end of the day I simply got lucky, hands down.

Kurt

I hear ya. I was probably pretty lucky for awhile and one piece got me. The scary thing is I think I probably had them for months before I noticed. The only visible damage were bite marks. Luckily I did not trade any acropora.

Anyways, the battle is going well. My experiment, I call Extreme Basting, is working well (ie. using a maxi-jet 1200 point blank). If I can continually hit all of my acropora like I am I think I have around a 70% chance of eradicating them (completely made up statistic). But seriously, population numbers continue to be decimated, fewer and fewer adults pop up. FWIW I have found they are extremely consistient in where they lay eggs, which I promptly hunt down and murder.