AEFW - Splotchy death sentence - Fish needed

[D5HP]

Hello RC,

I need advice.

I have AEFW and they have spread to at least 2 frags (nano tank = no real colonies) and the bite marks are getting pretty serious. I thought it was just one particular frag dying on me, but it has since spread and I am no longer in denial.

I do not have a Q-tank and I do not want to dose the entire tank with something as I have inverts that I care far more about. I do not even have more than $150 in acro frags. As long as it doesn't spread to my montis (much more in the tank) and my 3 birdsnest mini-colonies I will not be too terribly upset.

That being said I'd like to save them by attempting a natural predator.

I had a 6-line in the tank a few months ago but it randomly disappeared. I am not against trying one again, I love the fish.

The tank's footprint is 36"x12.5" - only 10" high. Smaller tank so I need a smaller wrasse. Most Christmas wrasses are too big I believe.

I have the bioload capacity and will not be keeping this fish forever.

If you had one fish to order THIS WEEK what would it be to help fight off some of these flatworms?

EDIT: Here's a photo of the tank...most of the acros are on the center rock. One on the back glass and the green slimer hiding over to the left.

Thanks,
Dustin

 

[Reef Bass]

If you're sure getting a wrasse is your best option, I'd recommend a leopard wrasse, though it might be on the large side for you. My buddy has one and it seems to hunt and peck a lot. Make sure you have a lid or screen on your tank. I don't think the wrasse will eliminate them, and eventually your acros will die. The flatworms are eating their flesh and will continue til the acros are gone, or rapid necrosis sets in.

IMO, if I were in your shoes, I'd haul those acros out of the tank, dip 'em, scrape off any eggs and repeat weekly until the flatworms are gone. The other immediately effective technique would be to simpy just toss your acros.

AEFW are the worst pest, IMHO, and you've got a winnable case. Just don't play around with them. Take firm and decisive action now.

 

[D5HP]

If you're sure getting a wrasse is your best option, I'd recommend a leopard wrasse, though it might be on the large side for you. My buddy has one and it seems to hunt and peck a lot. Make sure you have a lid or screen on your tank. I don't think the wrasse will eliminate them, and eventually your acros will die. The flatworms are eating their flesh and will continue til the acros are gone, or rapid necrosis sets in.

IMO, if I were in your shoes, I'd haul those acros out of the tank, dip 'em, scrape off any eggs and repeat weekly until the flatworms are gone. The other immediately effective technique would be to simpy just toss your acros.

AEFW are the worst pest, IMHO, and you've got a winnable case. Just don't play around with them. Take firm and decisive action now.

Thanks for the quick response.

The problem with taking the acros out for dipping is that they have all encrusted in a way that has bonded a few rocks together. Obviously they're all going to die anyways so breaking them isn't a huge deal. The problem is that I absolutely refuse to risk killing my other digitata species because they are doing so well (also all on the same rock)

I can rip out a solid portion of the acros but the bases will still be left behind in some instances, so the flatworms will just jump right back on them...at least that's my understanding.

I just figured a wrasse could get in there and take care of things. :uzi:

Firm and decisive action is without a doubt the best advice for this though...and much appreciated!

 

[mcoomer]

I've heard more hit and miss stories about controlling infestations with fish, including AEFW with wrasses, that I can't even begin to believe you'll have complete success. I picked up AEFW on a piece of Purple Nana so I know what they can do to a coral. I also know that you can keep them from spreading and kill them with a bath in Coral RX.

I know you don't want to do it but if you're going to save them you need to get to work on it right now. If everything is ecrusted, dip it all. I know that flatworms apparently limit their attacks to acropora so your digitata is probably safe but dip it anyway. If that rock will fit in a 5 gallon bucket I'd put it in there, fill it with water, and dose the whole thing with Coral RX. Use a turkey baster to circulate water around the corals and rock, rinse in a separate bucket, and return it to the tank. Repeat everyday for a week, every other day the second week, and so on until the flatworms and eggs are gone.

Someone else can chime in here if they've got any insight into dipping the digi. If it will survive the dip, I'd put the whole rock in and not break off any corals. That would seem like the least stressful way of treating them.

Good luck,
Mike

 

[LifeAquatic]

AEFW won't eat your monti caps.

 

[MelloW33]

Check this thread out
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1965880

Not a whole lot of data on the subject but based on the pictures, you can't deny that it calls red bugs and AEFW.

 

[SPSEMPIRE]

+1 on the leopard wrasse. I have two of them for that reason, one in the display and the other one in the propagation system.

 

[D5HP]

I've heard more hit and miss stories about controlling infestations with fish, including AEFW with wrasses, that I can't even begin to believe you'll have complete success. I picked up AEFW on a piece of Purple Nana so I know what they can do to a coral. I also know that you can keep them from spreading and kill them with a bath in Coral RX.

I know you don't want to do it but if you're going to save them you need to get to work on it right now. If everything is ecrusted, dip it all. I know that flatworms apparently limit their attacks to acropora so your digitata is probably safe but dip it anyway. If that rock will fit in a 5 gallon bucket I'd put it in there, fill it with water, and dose the whole thing with Coral RX. Use a turkey baster to circulate water around the corals and rock, rinse in a separate bucket, and return it to the tank. Repeat everyday for a week, every other day the second week, and so on until the flatworms and eggs are gone.

Someone else can chime in here if they've got any insight into dipping the digi. If it will survive the dip, I'd put the whole rock in and not break off any corals. That would seem like the least stressful way of treating them.

Good luck,
Mike

I have to get my hands on some Coral RX, but I've also heard that may indeed help out.

I understand your reasoning with dipping the montis but those are actually my favorite corals in the tank (amazing colors) and I'd rather lose all my acros than kill of a couple of those. I guess my best shot would be to get a wrasse...hope he eats whatever is left on the bases of the acros that I break off...and treat what I can outside of the tank with dips.

I tried the basting thing but the infected corals were just shedding tissue...it was terrible to see.

AEFW won't eat your monti caps.

Check this thread out
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1965880

Not a whole lot of data on the subject but based on the pictures, you can't deny that it calls red bugs and AEFW.

Yeah I've read through that thread and it gave me some ideas but most involve removing the infected corals and treating them.

+1 on the leopard wrasse. I have two of them for that reason, one in the display and the other one in the propagation system.

Hmm it looks like that species is really hard to keep alive in captivity and they don't ship very well apparently.

Anything else a little hardier?

Six line? Yellow coris? Both? Thanks for all the input everyone.

 

[Whisperer]

I have read that wrasses under the genus pseudocheilinus will eat flatworms and pyramiddelid snails. The six-line and secretive wrasses belongs to this genus. I have a nice red secretive wrasse and the p. snails have since disappeared and I do not see any signs and damages from AEFW anymore.

 

[D5HP]

I have read that wrasses under the genus pseudocheilinus will eat flatworms and pyramiddelid snails. The six-line and secretive wrasses belongs to this genus. I have a nice red secretive wrasse and the p. snails have since disappeared and I do not see any signs and damages from AEFW anymore.

Thanks...a LFS I don't like shopping at had a small 6-line so I went ahead and picked it up. The stuff I thought was tissue...was damn flatworms. Hopefully the sixline can really bring it!

The infestation was far worse than I had anticipated. I took everyone's advice and chiseled the different growth areas needed to pull and dip.

LFS only had the little vials of Coral RX. Have a tube on the way in the mean time but I should be able to get 6 treatments from the two I got.

Dipped everything for 10 minutes...rinsed...stuck it back in the tank.

Everyday for a week.

A rose mille I didn't even think had been bitten yet...turned it around... :mad2:

These bite marks weren't there on Monday.

This thing used to be so beautiful --> red planet clipping

I really appreciate all your help.

Thanks again,
Dustin

 

[werdlone]

Honestly....chuck your acros. If you don't have a quarantine tank, you will never get rid of them. make sure even the bases of the acros are removed from the tank, or cover them with epoxy (don't give them a food source). wait at least 8 weeks and then you can get new acros. They won't affect any of your monies or birdnest/pocci's. Dip all of your new acros before they go in the tank..I have thrown out some high end frags because flatworms came off during a dip. Also, get fresh cut frags when possible. Eggs are usually on the base rock or frag base. No dip kills the eggs.

 

[jsousa]

Get a maxi jet and blow off the corals that are infected weekly. That's what I did. Seems to work pretty good. Oh and make sure your parameters are stable and your flow is nice and strong. I know it sounds obvious but it works.

 

[preef]

I have an Adorned Wrasse and a Radiant Wrasse and I noticed a frag was infected last week. Not too optimistic about controlling with fish.

The ones I just discovered were absolutely invisible. I could only see the bite marks until I dipped.

 

[Reef Bass]

The ones I just discovered were absolutely invisible. I could only see the bite marks until I dipped.

This is very often the case. Typically one has no clue that the corals are infected or how bad the infection is until one notices lots of bite marks or tons of AEFW being blown off a coral while basting / powerheading.

And then there's that horrible sinking feeling when one picks up a frag that looked great from the front but turns out was heavily damaged in back where one couldn't see.

From your pictures, your infestation is severe. I'd seriously consider tossing your acros. It takes a long time with very dedicated effort to wipe them out once they get to the point where yours are. And even if the flatworms don't kill 'em, repeated dipping over a long time can very easily kill the coral by itself. Originally you mentioned not having very many frags, so the dipping effort would be more simple. But with the numbers of flatworms in your pics you've got multiple egg clusters hiding around and those are your headaches for the future. And any adult you don't kill right away that lays eggs extends your battle another 4-6 weeks. And the dips don't kill eggs. You have to wait for them to hatch, and then dip before they hatchlings can mature to lay their own eggs (extending your efforts another 4-6 weeks).

To be fair, there are those who claim they can live with aefws by basting and predatory wrasses. They may contain the population level from totally overrunning all their acros, but they rarely completely irradicate the flatworms. Plus infected acros rarely exhibit the color and polyp extension of their healthy counterparts.

Myself, I cannot tolerate these parasites literally consuming the flesh of my acros, so my goal is always total irradication.

See why tossing your acros may be the easiest solution?

 

[D5HP]

This is very often the case. Typically one has no clue that the corals are infected or how bad the infection is until one notices lots of bite marks or tons of AEFW being blown off a coral while basting / powerheading.

And then there's that horrible sinking feeling when one picks up a frag that looked great from the front but turns out was heavily damaged in back where one couldn't see.

From your pictures, your infestation is severe. I'd seriously consider tossing your acros. It takes a long time with very dedicated effort to wipe them out once they get to the point where yours are. And even if the flatworms don't kill 'em, repeated dipping over a long time can very easily kill the coral by itself. Originally you mentioned not having very many frags, so the dipping effort would be more simple. But with the numbers of flatworms in your pics you've got multiple egg clusters hiding around and those are your headaches for the future. And any adult you don't kill right away that lays eggs extends your battle another 4-6 weeks. And the dips don't kill eggs. You have to wait for them to hatch, and then dip before they hatchlings can mature to lay their own eggs (extending your efforts another 4-6 weeks).

To be fair, there are those who claim they can live with aefws by basting and predatory wrasses. They may contain the population level from totally overrunning all their acros, but they rarely completely irradicate the flatworms. Plus infected acros rarely exhibit the color and polyp extension of their healthy counterparts.

Myself, I cannot tolerate these parasites literally consuming the flesh of my acros, so my goal is always total irradication.

See why tossing your acros may be the easiest solution?

Well the one I showed you...with the eggs...was definitely the worst infestation of eggs.

All other acros showing signs of eggs were trashed. That sucked.

The only one left in the tank that shows signs of bite marks is the red planet....and I'm going to try and save that one with lots of dips.

The other acros are in completely different sections of the tank and they do not appear to have been bitten yet, however they still received the dip treatment...and will continue to receive dips for a few more weeks.

I definitely didn't want to throw away my corals but there really just weren't many other options.

They're goners regardless.

So no dip will really kill the eggs?

That sucks! Money to be made there chemists!

Thanks again for the responses.

 

[LooseHip]

I agree that dipping or tossing is the most effective method to eliminating these pests, but I had success by adding a melenarus wrasse. I haven't seen a single AEFW in about 6 months. Good luck!