AEFW treatment-Fluke Tab warning

[hobogato]

Ok, i think i have a plan. i have been thinking long and hard about this, and it seems there are two main issues to deal with when doing an in tank treatment of fluke tabs:

1. rapid medication removal at the end of the treatment period
2. a solid biofilter in place even after the tank is nuked with fluke tabs.

this thread is to document the plan i have come up with and how things turn out.

First, a little about my setup for those who havent seen it.

Tanks:

240 gallon (8'X2'X2') reef ready viewable from both long sides - room divider

50 gallon (40"X28"X14") clam tank built into a side table - viewable only from the top

Filtration:

combination sump/fuge (6.5'X14"X14') with 4 sections in the following order - drain in chamber with 80 pounds of liverock rubble, skimmer chamber, fuge chamber with 8" deep sandbed and mangroves, and return/skimmer pump chamber

return pumps - mag12 and mag18
clam tank supply pump mag7

single beckett skimmer (6" diameter tube 30" tall) driven by a mag12

dual chamber calcium reactor (4" diameter tube 24" tall)

kalk reactor (6" diameter tube 24" tall)

about 350 lbs of liverock in the display

Lighting:

Display tank - 8 @ 65 watt PC true actinic, 3 @ 250 watt CV 14k SE, 2 @ 250 watt CV RL 12k DE, 70 LED blue moonlights

Clam tank - 2 @ 40 watt URI super actinic T5, 2 @ 65 watt URI super actinic T5, 1 @ 175 watt CV RL 12k DE

here is the tank not too long ago - before i nothiced the flatworms

front

back

filtration

 

[hobogato]

So here is the reason i have to do something

A. valida i first noticed the flatworm damage on

closup

Ok, so the plan is as follows:

I have disconnected the display tank from the sump/fuge and clam tank. i have moved all zoas and lps into the clam tank and made sure there are no SPS in that system (clamtank and sump/fuge). here are some pics of he tank and clam tank today

display without zoas and lps

clam tank

 

[hobogato]

I have installed a temporary sump and two hyatt torpedos on the display tank. i also moved the skimmer over to the sump on the display tank. in the first chamber of the temporary sump i added a 5 gallon bucket amount of live rock rubble. here are some pics of the parts and the finished temporary filtration for the display tank

plumbing parts

sump and torpedos (notice there are three torpedos, the third will come into play a little later in the treatment

tempory filtration complete - i also rerouted the plumbing of my calcium reactor so it draws from and returns to the temporary sump and my kalk reactor dispenses to the temporary sump as well.

 

[hobogato]

it turns out that the concentration of the fluke tabs can be varied with good results. some people are using 4 tablets for every 5 gallons of water for 20 minutes. i will be using 2 tablets per 5 gallons but treating for 60 minutes. this will allow easier removal of the medication after the treatment time.

treatment procedure (performed 4 times total - once every 7 days):

1. turn off the return pumps so the tank is isolated.
2. add the fluke tabs (previously dissolved in about 5 gallons of tank water) into the display tank.
3. wait 45 minutes.
4. perform a 50% water change on the display tank (85 gallons - half of the water volume after subtracting for live rock and sand).
5. restart the return pumps adding in the third torpedo filled with 12 lbs of fresh carbon
6. skim wet for 24 hours and do additional water changes as needed.

 

[60Cubed]

good luck! hope it works. another reefer just tried this and it wasn't with positive result. i think he lost most of his corals. you have quite a packed tank. tis beautiful. good thing you have some pics in case you want to remember it by.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=997830

like i said before....... good luck i really hope it works for you.

 

[hobogato]

yeah, i was following tim's progress carefully, and that is why i opted for the lower dose for longer after talking to ryan about the fluke tabs. i think it will allow for quicker removal of the meds since there wont be as much of it in the water to begin with.

 

[nwrogers]

Oh man, I am nervous and it's not even my tank!!! If you have a quarantine tank maybe you could take a frag of each and put it in there just incase something goes wrong. Good luck!

 

[hobogato]

i'll be fragging some specific ones and a friend will be holding them in a quarantine tank for me. i'm a little nervous, too. (but of course that's an understatement!)

 

[hobogato]

well, i have spent the morning setting up a small experiment using the fluke tabs. i mixed 1/2 gallon of tankwater with 1/4 tablet (this is the dosage i would like to use), and started with 18 frags of an affected valida and another colony of valida with lots of damage. i placed all of the coral into the solution and waited. at 45 minutes and every 5 minutes after that i removed 2-3 flatworms and put them back into non-medicated tank water to make sure they were dead and not just stunned, placed one frag in tap water to make sure there were no flatworms left on the frag, and placed one frag back into the tank to make sure it would live thru the treatment. i also removed the colony and placed it back into the tank at 60 minutes because this was the amount of time i hypothesized would be sufficient.

preliminary results: only the frag at 45 minutes still had a flatworm on it after medication, there was movement of one flatworm in the 45 minute, 55 minute, and 60 minute saltwater containers. i will update later today.

 

[hobogato]

now no movement in any of the containers of flatworms, but i am going to replicate that part of the experiment to make sure. the colony of valida that was in the medication for 60 minutes has already started to polyp out back in the tank.

 

[hobogato]

repeated the experiment with the equivalent of 2 pills per 4 gallons, and even the sample of worms that was in the medicated water for 85 is showing movement in 1 out of 5 after they were placed back in non medicated tank water for a couple of hours. will have to try again tomorrow with the 4 pills per 5 gallons strength.

 

[hobogato]

discouraged.

running the same experiment today with the fluke tabs at 1/2 pill for 1/2 gallon (a little stronger than the 4 pills in 5 gallons for 20 minutes that most people do to dip their corals), and there are signs of living flatworms after 40 minutes in the medicated water, once they are placed back into non-medicated tank water. i am going to run it to 60 minutes, but if it doesnt kill them all at 60 minutes, i will not do an in tank treatment. i will just have to take the corals out and dip them repeatedly with TMPCC dip - that's gonna make for some long days.

PLEASE TAKE NOTE: if you are dipping your corals in fluke tabs at the dosage of 4 pills per 5 gallons for 20 minutes, you may not be killing all of the flatworms that are present.

 

[kzoo]

Man I thought red bug was bad , these little life suckers are much worse, I hope all the best for your beautiful tank.

 

[hobogato]

well, it has been a long day, but i finally finished setting up the quarantine tanks.

heres the setup:

2 qt tanks (48"X24"X10"), a sump (48"X20"X18") with 30 lbs of live rock rubble and a single beckett skimmer. two hyatt torpedos, calcium reactor and kalk reactor (from the main setup).

2 @ 250 watt DE RL 12k (i was going to add a third light in the middle, but the those two seem to be enough)

thank you to richard and mark of CB pets, bill, and jeff for loaning me various parts of this qt setup.

the qt tanks:

the sump and torpedos:

i will be dipping the corals before they enter the qt setup and once a week for 5 or 6 weeks, with one final dip before they go back into the display.

what an understanding wife i have for not giving me grief about taking over the dining room!

 

[melev]

Just for the sake of asking, have you considered only treating the sick corals?

 

[Sparkss]

That just about never works long term. Many have tried and after several months the AEFWs are back to plague proportions.

edit : Unless you are talking about treating all acros, out of the tank (which is where you would need to do it if you were doing "select" corals anyways).

 

[hobogato]

i thought about it mark, but decided to just treat all of the acros since i am going thru the process anyway. i would rather treat them all now than have the flatworms come back and have to do all of this again.

 

[mr. pluto]

are you going to bank ea. of your colonies in case of catastrophic
failure? it really wouldn't be too much trouble,single sticks are
easy to monitor & clean.

 

[waterfaller1]

Gorgeous tank! Good luck with your treatment.

 

[jeffnsa]

it is one of the most beautiful and diverse tanks that you will ever see, the pictures do it no justice. hobogato is a great guy with a very understanding wife and if anyone can beat this problem it will be him. there are more people willing to jump in and help than there are things to do, even the lfs's are wanting to jump in. keep up the good work and if you need anything just ask, what mine is yours.