Aegeon's 25G Cube Build

[jgraz]

No problem. I only bought one and plan to put it somewhere in my sump. Im gonna see how it rums chemi pure like in the video. Hopefully a full review this weekend.

 

[Aegeon]

@Aegeon, how is the overflow kit with noise or gurgling?

The overflow itself is very quiet, especially after I played around with the height of the airline tube. If I get right up next to it, I can hear almost a low hum, but I doubt you'd notice it from more than a foot or so away.

I replaced the PVC slip elbow that came with the glass-holes.com kit with a hose barb elbow, and drilled a new hole for the airline tubing. Here's a pic:

The most noise in my system is coming from the sump. Right now, I'm just running black spaflex tubing from the overflow straight down to the sump. The water falls almost vertically and the flex tubing is ridged, so you can definitely hear the water tumbling into the sump, and I get quite a few bubbles. It's not obnoxious with the cabinet door closed, but I'm looking into ways to muffle the sound or "soften" the water's entry into the sump. Let me know if you have any ideas.

Thanks.

 

[1DeR9_3Hy]

The overflow itself is very quiet, especially after I played around with the height of the airline tube. If I get right up next to it, I can hear almost a low hum, but I doubt you'd notice it from more than a foot or so away.

I replaced the PVC slip elbow that came with the glass-holes.com kit with a hose barb elbow, and drilled a new hole for the airline tubing. Here's a pic:

http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt203/chicago121p/Aquarium%20Build/full-02.jpg[/IM G]

The most noise in my system is coming from the sump. Right now, I'm just running black spaflex tubing from the overflow straight down to the sump. The water falls almost vertically and the flex tubing is ridged, so you can definitely hear the water tumbling into the sump, and I get quite a few bubbles. It's not obnoxious with the cabinet door closed, but I'm looking into ways to muffle the sound or "soften" the water's entry into the sump. Let me know if you have any ideas.

Thanks.[/QUOTE]

I have a tank almost identical to it (17x18x20) that i might put up in my kitchen, but it would be about 5 ft from my bedroom door. Like you mentioned, the WAF (wife approval factor) will dictate that it be silent if its near the bedroom.

I ran a similar setup (50 cube with a 900 gph sump pump). I used socks for awhile to muffle the noise, and that worked perfectly! However the maintenance was a bit of a chore since it was messy and had to be done every 3-4 days. I replaced that with a PVC "T" hooked onto my drain side plumbing @ water level.

The idea was that the water would drain down into the sump without making the splashing noise and the trapt air would escape up into the other side of the "T". It worked pretty well and provided a substantial reduction in noise.

If i remember right, i had to put another section of PVC on top of the T to really quite it down and keep salt creep from getting everywhere, but after that it worked great.

So the glass holes kit comes with an elbow setup to have a piece of air line in it, and you replaced that with your barbed fitting with a hole in it for the air line?

 

[Aegeon]

So the glass holes kit comes with an elbow setup to have a piece of air line in it, and you replaced that with your barbed fitting with a hole in it for the air line?

Yeah, the drain side of the kit includes a 1" threaded bulkhead and a PVC elbow that is threaded to match on one end, and 1" female non-threaded on the other. There's a hole drilled through the fitting so that if the elbow exits the bulkhead and points down, a piece of airline tubing extends through the drilled hole in the top wall of the fitting and down the drain side about 4-5".

The end of the airline on the outside of the fitting must remain above the tank's waterline, but it allows air to escape the drain side and eliminates most of the gurgling caused by air trapped in the drain. You can tune it a bit by pushing more or less airline tubing down the drain.

Since I went with spaflex instead of rigid PVC I couldn't use the stock elbow, so I replaced it with a 1" threaded/hose barb elbow that could screw into the bulkhead. I drilled my own hole to match the location on the stock fitting. I pulled the airline tube from the stock elbow and used it in my modified fitting. Works great so far.

I ran a similar setup (50 cube with a 900 gph sump pump). I used socks for awhile to muffle the noise, and that worked perfectly! However the maintenance was a bit of a chore since it was messy and had to be done every 3-4 days. I replaced that with a PVC "T" hooked onto my drain side plumbing @ water level.

The idea was that the water would drain down into the sump without making the splashing noise and the trapt air would escape up into the other side of the "T". It worked pretty well and provided a substantial reduction in noise.

If i remember right, i had to put another section of PVC on top of the T to really quite it down and keep salt creep from getting everywhere, but after that it worked great.

Do you mean you put the "T" fitting at the display tank, where the water exited the overflow, or at the bottom of the drain line in the sump? Were you using rigid PVC pipe, or tubing? Trying to get a mental picture of the setup....

 

[1DeR9_3Hy]

I was using rigid (schd 40) pvc, and the T went on the drain in the sump. I had to play with it a bit to make it quieter. Try and add pieces of PVC to the top and bottom of the T and dial it in.

 

[Aegeon]

The cycle continues...

The cycle continues...

The cycle continues, though I haven't seen much of a spike in anything. 3 days in, here are my levels:

Temp: 78 deg.
SG: 1.025
NH3: 0.25
NO2: 0
NO3: 0

Is it possible with mostly base rock and very cured live rock that was transported quickly (less than 1 hour out of water), there won't be a noticeable cycle at all? How long does it usually take to see ammonia start to spike? I'm running lights-out, and no skimmer or water changes. This is my first time through the cycle, so I'm not entirely sure what to expect.

I also got my JBJ level controller/ATO set up last night, so the SG should remain solid from this point out. I was topping off manually for the first 3 days of the cycle, and noticed the SG could swing from 1.025 to 1.028 in the 24 hours between top-offs.

A couple other cool things. It's amazing that stuff can hide so well inside live rock. On the first night with the live rock in the tank, I spotted a collonista snail and chiton, but haven't seen a trace of either since. Since then, I haven't seen anything on the rock at all. Then last night, I hit the rock with a flashlight to see if anything was around, and spotted this 3-4" bristle worm. Wonder where he's been for the last 3 days?

I also figured out I can take pictures through my refractometer with my iPhone. Probably pointless, but I thought it was interesting.

The cycle continues.... I think.

 

[1DeR9_3Hy]

lol nice refractrometer photo, i thought that was cool.

As far as the cycle goes, id be surprised if you get any cycle. I added 20 lbs of cured rock that i had to drive an hour each way to get, to my existing tank. I didnt get anything bad out of it, not even a algae bloom.

How long has this rock been in the tank? If over a week, id say your ready to rock and roll (assuming it was really cured, and not just put in water for a week or two).

 

[Aegeon]

I got the live rock from a LFS who had it in one of their softie frag tanks, not in a live rock curing tank/bin. I was told it had been in their system for about 6 months, so I think it's pretty well cured. I added it to my system about 6:00pm Saturday night, so its been in mine for about 3 1/2 days at this point.

In my previous post, I listed the ammonia level at 0.25, but it might actually be a bit less than that. I test my water when I have time at night after the kiddos go to bed in a room with crappy yellow incandescent lighting. It's a bit tough to differentiate the faint yellow colors that appear when using my Salifert NH3 kit, so I've been erring on the side of caution when recording the NH3 level. What I think is very faint yellow (0.25 NH3) might just be colorless but cloudy water (0 NH3) in a room with yellow lighting.

I'm planning to leave my system alone for at least a full week to see what happens. Do you think I should spike my tank with an ammonia source to see what happens, like some fish food/shrimp or something like that?

BTW: What brand of test kits do you guys use/recommend? I think the Salifert ones seem a bit hard to read. They use just 1-2ml of water, not a full test tube, so the colors are fairly difficult for me to make out.

 

[Augustus]

Saw this link responding to your other post and wow. You have done a spectaculer job my friend. Very nice setup and very well planned out I almost don't believe this is your first saltwater tank

I have a 30 gallon nano and put 45lbs of LR in it and 20lbs of live sand and it still took almost a month to cycle. Though after reading this whole thread I can understand if your a little impatient!

Keep updating I want to see how this turns out!

 

[Willster]

Tagging along

 

[jgraz]

Aegeon, I saw in another thread that you were planning on using a BRS reactor, but could not fit it. Not sure if you have the room in the sump but I ordered one of the new CPR Nano Reactors to give it a try. Should be in today and it is pretty small. That just might work for you.
Here it is. http://www.amekaaquatics.com/productinfo.html?product_id=826

I'll give a full review one I get it going.

I threw a little review up in my build thread
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2103759&page=2

 

[Aegeon]

Six days later...

Six days later...

It's been six days since my last update, and everything seems to be going well. On the recommendations of fellow reefers here and on another board I started feeding the tank a bit of flake food twice a day on Jan 26. I also started the lights on a daily 10 hour cycle (10am - 8pm) on the 26th.

I saw a slight ammonia spike (0.5 on my Salifert kit) on Jan 27, which dropped back to 0 on the 28th. No sign of any nitrite spike at all, but a little nitrate appeared on the 28th and remained level for two days. Early in the morning on the 30th I did a 5 gal water change and fired up the skimmer. So far, the skimmer hasn't done anything yet, but I expect it'll take a while to break in, and there's still not very much in the water to skim out yet, so I'm not worried.

I've also heard that the Tunze 9002 I'm using takes some tweaking to get dialed in, so I'll have to fiddle with it, I'm sure. I think the water level in my sump is just a touch low for the skimmer, too, which I may have to address by upping the water level in my sump by about half an inch. I don't have a lot of headroom left in the sump for back-flow, so I'm hesitant to do this unless I have to. We'll see.

After 5 days of feeding the tank and running the lights with no apparent ill effects, I added my first livestock late in the evening on the 30th. I purchased two nano Ocellaris Clownfish, each about 1.5", and acclimated them over a 30 minute period, then dropped them in. They ate right away, and seem to be doing fine today. I'll let these guys hang our for a week or two and continue to monitor water parameters to see what impact they have on the system.

I also submitted a CUC design request to reefcleaners.org. I'm still waiting to hear back, but now that I have a little bio-load in the tank I think the CUC will be the next thing to go into the tank, maybe next week.

I'll try to get pics tonight. Feedback is always welcome.

Thanks!

 

[Aegeon]

Another day, and the clowns seem to be doing fine. Water parameters still look good, 0 ammonia and nitrite, and just starting to see a bit of nitrate building. I'll do another water change in a day or two to bring those down. The Tunze skimmer has just barely started producing some skimmate, about 1/8" in the collection cup over the last 24 hours, the color of very light tea.

Latest FTS from 1/31/12:

And here are the first two inhabitants, a pair of tiny (1.25" ea) Ocellaris Clownfish. I've realized that taking pictures of fish is really, really difficult. I probably took 40 pictures, and these two are the only ones even clear enough to post. I don't know how you guys get all those fantastic photos of yours. I just have a crappy point-and-shoot, so any tips are appreciated.

Took this one with the tank lights out, using just the camera flash. Trying anything I could think of to get a clear shot. These guys have pretty much stayed in the back corner, behind the return loc-line. Do clownfish typically stay close together when added to a new tank, or do they typically separate? These guys are never more than a few inches apart. If one wanders off to a different area of the tank, the other follows right behind. They also rub up against each other constantly. Could they be pairing up, or this this just ordinary behavior?

Also, I rearranged my sump a few days ago to get the skimmer in and running and add a backup heater. I removed the temporary Tetra heater I had in the DT and replaced it with a 50w Aqueon in the sump as a backup to the 75w Jager. Now in the sump are a thermometer, the two heaters, the Tunze 9002, the Maxi-Jet 1800 return pump, the ATO float switch and a 3.5lb chunk of live rock. Not too bad for only about 4.5 gallons of usable volume:

Top view:

As always, questions/comments/suggestions appreciated. Thanks!

 

[reefsahoy]

Love the diy stand. You got the sku # for the stand from ikea? I've been looking for a stand that dimension but as you probably know is hard to find. Love the build too. You get any micro bubbles back into the tank? What size return pump are you using?
Thx

 

[Aegeon]

Love the diy stand. You got the sku # for the stand from ikea? I've been looking for a stand that dimension but as you probably know is hard to find. Love the build too. You get any micro bubbles back into the tank? What size return pump are you using?
Thx

Thanks for the compliment.

I stared with an IKEA AKURUM kitchen cabinet base (http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/94382010/#/14381910).

I selected the 18" width (you can get them from 12" to 36" wide, the 18" width is $31.00) to match the width of my DT. They all come 24" deep and you can't select different depths, so I had to use a circular saw to cut the side, top and bottom panels down to 18" deep so the stand matched the dimensions of my cube tank. It cut pretty easily. If you do need to cut these, be sure to put masking tape on the panels where you're going to cut. The panels are laminated and without the tape the laminate will chip off when you run the circular saw through them.

I reinforced the cabinet (which is just laminated particleboard) with 1x3" solid pine boards inside to better support the weight of the tank. I'm not sure I'd trust the stock cabinet to hold the weight of a full 25 gallon tank.

I also bought the NUMERÄR countertop (http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/00155191/). It comes in a few lengths, I bought the shortest, 49" long for $59). They're all about 25" deep, so again I had to cut the countertop down to size to make it square. I have enough left over after cutting that I could make another stand, or replace the top on my current stand if it gets damaged. Just like the cabinet base, be sure to use masking tape over where you're going to cut to prevent chipping the laminate.

The whole thing is held together with wood screws & glue.

Also got 3 NEXUS doors to use as the side panels of my stand as well as the door in front (http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/10198147/#/40197698), a LANSA door handle (http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/60138759/), a set of INTEGRAL hinges (http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/50105863/), a set of AKRUM plastic legs (http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/30076319/) and a PERFEKT NEXUS plinth kit (http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/90197733/)

The legs are adjustable, so I can level the stand and tank without using shims. They're rated to hold about 275lbs each, so I figured they'd be strong enough to hold all that weight. So far, they've been fine. Using them was a good idea in my opinion, the house we live in is about 90 years old and all the floors are sloped or warped. It would have been next to impossible to level the stand using wooden shims.

The plinth is a strip of wood that matches the door and clips onto onto the plastic legs to hide them from view. When it's installed, the stand looks like it's sitting directly on the floor, instead of on ugly plastic legs. I don't have it installed yet, so you can't see it in my most recent photos. I think you can see it in some of the earlier pictures in the thread.

The 1x3s, wood screws, etc. are from home depot. All in, it probably cost about $150 to do the stand.

I'm using a Maxi-Jet 1800 as a return pump (http://www.marinedepot.com/Aquarium...ater_Pumps-Marineland-AS1311-FIWPSBUF-vi.html). It's rated at 474gph at 0 head, so I get a bit less than that.

I do get microbubbles in the display tank currently. I'm not sure exactly how bad it really is, though. The tank is still settling in, and I'm still moving things around a lot, so I have a lot of small particles floating in the water. It's tough to tell how much of what I see floating in the water are actually bubbles, and how much are sand particles, detritus, etc. I'm going to run it for a few weeks and see what happens. Might try running some carbon or floss, too, to filter out the particulates in the water and see if the bubbles are still enough of a problem that I need to address it.

I did notice that they got worse when I added the Tunze 9002 skimmer. I don't have any baffles in my sump currently, it's just an open tank. I may wind up adding some eventually to cut down on the amount of bubbles I get back in the DT.

Thanks!

 

[reefsahoy]

wow! thanks! that was very detail info and i appreciate that!.

i have a couple of suggestions on your tank.
1. you may want to put a divider baffel in the sump area where you can keep your water level constant for yur skimmer otherwise you'll be constantly adjusting the skimmer because the level keeps changing. that way it will be set and forget it.
2. for the return you may want to consider building a rack/shelve using the fluoresent light diffuser so you can put a filter pad for the return. this will stop any noise of water splashing and reduce micro bubbles.

again thanks for the info

 

[Aegeon]

wow! thanks! that was very detail info and i appreciate that!.

No problem. Glad to help.

i have a couple of suggestions on your tank.
1. you may want to put a divider baffel in the sump area where you can keep your water level constant for yur skimmer otherwise you'll be constantly adjusting the skimmer because the level keeps changing. that way it will be set and forget it.

The sump is baffle-less at the moment, which means that with the return pump on, the water level in the entire sump is stable. I have an ATO set up, too, so under normal operating conditions the level in the sump never fluctuates.

The only time this is not true is when I turn off the return pump, and the water level in the sump rises due to the backflow from the DT. The skimmer and return pump are on the same power strip, though, so when the return pump is off, so is the skimmer.

The sump is really small, which is probably the biggest thing I regret in the build. If I had it do do over again, I would have built a bigger stand to use a larger sump tank. To catch all the backflow without overflowing, I can only keep the sump about half-full. With the low water level and all the equipment stuffed in there, I hesitate to add baffles to further section it off. It wouldn't take much of a miscalculation to have the return section run dry.

In my current setup, I have an anti-siphon hole drilled in the locline of the return inside the DT, near where it exits the bulkhead. With the hole in the position it's currently in, I get about 3 gallons of backflow with the pumps off.

I'm working changing the design of the return line to get the anti-siphon hole up closer to the normal waterline, so there will be less backflow before the siphon is broken. This should let me add more water volume to the sump because I'll have to leave less empty volume to account for backflow. If I can do this, I might be able to add a baffle into the sump somewhere to help stop the bubbles and run a higher water level for the skimmer, which I think it needs.

2. for the return you may want to consider building a rack/shelve using the fluoresent light diffuser so you can put a filter pad for the return. this will stop any noise of water splashing and reduce micro bubbles.

again thanks for the info

I'm considering doing exactly this. Right now, the drain line just dumps into the sump, which creates a lot of turbulence and bubbles. I'm thinking of building a small acrylic "tower" that the drain line could run through, with a shelf for filter floss or pad to help deaden the sound and catch some of the bubbles. I think it would also help clarify the water in general, especially if I could rig it up to hold a bag of carbon when necessary as well.

As I said, the sump is really tight, so I'm not exactly sure how I'm going to do this yet. Most of the rock in the DT is base rock, except for one piece of live rock, about 4 lbs. I have another 3.5lb piece of live rock in the sump to help seed the system that I didn't want to put in the DT. My hope is that eventually, the base rock will be sufficiently "live" that I can remove the chunk of rock from the sump to free up some space, and use it instead to seed another system (it remains to be seen if my wife will go along with a 2nd tank, so the live rock may remain in the sump permanently).

Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[reefsahoy]

One of the things you might want to do is use a hang on power filter like the whisper 40. Hang it on your sump and fill the filter bag with carbon and rowaphos. This will save space in the sump, give you mechanical and chemical filtration and is easy as heck to change the mechanical and chemical media by simply pulling it out and refilling with a new one. It's also cheap to get the refills.

Im seriously considering this route to save sump space.

 

[reefsahoy]

Btw was the nexus a solid piece of woor or is it particle board too? Thx

 

[Aegeon]

One of the things you might want to do is use a hang on power filter like the whisper 40...

Sounds like a good idea. I might look into this, thanks!

Btw was the nexus a solid piece of woor or is it particle board too? Thx

The Nexus doors are laminated particle board. They're laminated on all sides, though, so none of the particle board is visible unless you drill/cut them.