After 14 or so year hiatus, interested in coming back

[jcjrogers]

I was in the hobby for 5 or 6 years and got out in in the early 2000's so I'm really not new. I posted in this section because it has been a while and my goals and needs are a little different than in the past. I'm very familiar with biological filtration, lighting requirements... at least as it related to my old vho and MH/PC lighting systems, calcium/alk requirements, lps vs. sps, micro vs. macro algae, live rock, deep sand beds, plenums, protein skimmers, sumps, and so forth.

I see that lighting has made a big swing towards LED which I'll have to better understand, but my real question has to do with automation. I have an adult form of Muscular Dystrophy so I get around mostly in a mobility scooter. I'm thinking about starting a 120 gal - 180 gal reef tank but realize that most of what I can do will be at ground level (in the cabinet of the stand with the sump, skimmer, etc.). To not overburden my wife, my plan is to have a service, which operates out of a LFS, set up the tank and then come every couple of weeks to perform water changes, clean glass, and perform basic equipment maintenance. The two weeks between these visits, I'll be doing most everything myself. Hence, I want to automate as much as possible. I don't want to say that price is no object, but fortunately, money isn't a huge concern... mainly limited to what I think makes sense as opposed to not having enough money. I've thought about the Red Sea Max S 500 or Max S 650. I really like the dimensions of the Max S 650 (63"x27.5"x25"). However, $6k is pretty steep, and looking around at tank/stands and components, it doesn't look like a good deal unless I'm missing something.

Due to my physical handicap, I have to figure everything out ahead of time. If I don't, the venture could turn into a very expensive disappointment that is over before it ever really gets started. Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[gone fishin]

I have not had any experience with the tanks you mentioned. But there are many devices available to help automate things such as.

I use a tunze osmolator for top offs from evaporation.

A lot of folks use an apex control system for setting lighting, return pump, powerheads, heaters, alk and calc dosing. I do not have one but there are many threads on them.

I wish you good luck in your endeavor.

 

[rjjr1963]

Welcome, I got out of salt water about the same time as you and just recently started enjoying the hobby again.

If you're planning on a 180 then 6k isn't going to be enough especially if you're going to go with top of the line lighting for a 25" deep tank. You can economize on a lot of things so that is a big variable. My tank and stand alone cost $2,500. I've slowly been accumulating all the components and tend to go with the higher end products. Lighting alone could run close to 2k.

Good luck with your new adventure.

 

[Desert Sea]

Hello! Welcome to the forum. :wavehand:

In addition to automating top off as Gone Fishing has mentioned, you can also automate RODI water production and storage and the water change process with a little planning and research here on the forum. Automating as much as you can will help keep your outsourced maintenance costs down.

Best of luck to you!

 

[jcjrogers]

Thanks guys!

Regarding the Red Sea Max S 650, it appears to be somewhat of a plug-and-play system except it lacks a Ca reactor. It includes tank and stand, LED lighting, sump, protein skimmer, auto top-off system, pumps, plumbing, and a glorified power strip. It doesn't have a controller per se, but the power strip appears to have timers, which I'm assuming is mainly for wave-making but not positive.

My old 75 gal was somewhat automated. I had a centrifugal pump that pulled RO/DI water from an old salt bucket, which was tied to a float switch in my "poor man's sump". The sump was a roughly 20 gal Rubbermaid container with a Rubbermaid waste can inside. Water flowed from the tank into the waste can, which spilled over into the main sump. The skimmer was on the waste can which always kept a steady water-level. Part of my problem was that the tank sat in a closet under the staircase and was open into the living room from a hole cut and trimmed in the Sheetrock. This was nice in that it was all hidden, but difficult to reach stuff and the room heated-up. I had to have fans all over, which increased evaporation (tank was open).

Part of my concern with top-up is the amount of evaporation I'll have to deal with. I don't remember how often I had to fill my salt bucket but was hoping to not have to fill the top-up system more than once per week. I know LEDs have to be splash protected but am not sure if folks use glass or acrylic tank covers or protect another way. Tank covers typically increase heat (probably less so with LEDs), and cloud and get salt-creep, but they greatly reduce evaporation. I wondered if LED intensity could be increased a little daily to offset, assuming you can program daily intensity increases/decreases. I could have my service clean the covers every couple of weeks, which would keep fairly clean.

I see water top-up as one of my biggest issues. I've thought about having my father-in-law make me a small wooden two-wheeler where I could mount a RO/DI system that I could wheel around to whatever sink I wanted to use. I can handle a couple of gallons in a plastic watering can so as long as I can access the top-off tank, I should be fine.

My other issue is storing saltwater. With my old tanks, I kept a 32 gal Rubbermaid container with a pump and heater filled with saltwater all the time. I don't think the wife will go for that in this house and though the tank won't be in the living room, storing next to the tank probably isn't an option. My plan is for my service to change 12-15 gallons every couple of weeks. Maybe I just get a 20 gal container and make my saltwater the day before they come? That way I just pull the container out and fill it, it sits next to the tank for a day, and then I put the container away. My other option is to buy saltwater from the service folks, but I think that will be expensive, and I won't really know what I'm getting. Unless I test before they use, I won't even know the s.g.

Oh well, this is the sort of stuff I have to obsess over. Again, I'm open to any and all suggestions concerning these and other automation issues.

 

[2smokes]

To transport ro di water i reccomend a 6-12 volt diaphragm pump.Its high pressure and can lift water like 70 meters high;With this and a small hose ,you could transport the rodi water.Costs like 20 dollars but its not good to use it with salt water,only with RO DI ; https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5L-..._8&btsid=53dd925f-9ce6-46ea-baf4-7df0888995e2

 

[rjjr1963]

Thanks guys!

Regarding the Red Sea Max S 650, it appears to be somewhat of a plug-and-play system except it lacks a Ca reactor. It includes tank and stand, LED lighting, sump, protein skimmer, auto top-off system, pumps, plumbing, and a glorified power strip. It doesn't have a controller per se, but the power strip appears to have timers, which I'm assuming is mainly for wave-making but not positive.

My old 75 gal was somewhat automated. I had a centrifugal pump that pulled RO/DI water from an old salt bucket, which was tied to a float switch in my "poor man's sump". The sump was a roughly 20 gal Rubbermaid container with a Rubbermaid waste can inside. Water flowed from the tank into the waste can, which spilled over into the main sump. The skimmer was on the waste can which always kept a steady water-level. Part of my problem was that the tank sat in a closet under the staircase and was open into the living room from a hole cut and trimmed in the Sheetrock. This was nice in that it was all hidden, but difficult to reach stuff and the room heated-up. I had to have fans all over, which increased evaporation (tank was open).

Part of my concern with top-up is the amount of evaporation I'll have to deal with. I don't remember how often I had to fill my salt bucket but was hoping to not have to fill the top-up system more than once per week. I know LEDs have to be splash protected but am not sure if folks use glass or acrylic tank covers or protect another way. Tank covers typically increase heat (probably less so with LEDs), and cloud and get salt-creep, but they greatly reduce evaporation. I wondered if LED intensity could be increased a little daily to offset, assuming you can program daily intensity increases/decreases. I could have my service clean the covers every couple of weeks, which would keep fairly clean.

I see water top-up as one of my biggest issues. I've thought about having my father-in-law make me a small wooden two-wheeler where I could mount a RO/DI system that I could wheel around to whatever sink I wanted to use. I can handle a couple of gallons in a plastic watering can so as long as I can access the top-off tank, I should be fine.

My other issue is storing saltwater. With my old tanks, I kept a 32 gal Rubbermaid container with a pump and heater filled with saltwater all the time. I don't think the wife will go for that in this house and though the tank won't be in the living room, storing next to the tank probably isn't an option. My plan is for my service to change 12-15 gallons every couple of weeks. Maybe I just get a 20 gal container and make my saltwater the day before they come? That way I just pull the container out and fill it, it sits next to the tank for a day, and then I put the container away. My other option is to buy saltwater from the service folks, but I think that will be expensive, and I won't really know what I'm getting. Unless I test before they use, I won't even know the s.g.

Oh well, this is the sort of stuff I have to obsess over. Again, I'm open to any and all suggestions concerning these and other automation issues.

I have a 40-gallon breeder that is 36 inches long and 18 inches wide and I lose at least 5 gallons per week in my auto top off I don't run a top or hood on this tank

 

[Breadman03]

I have most of my 150 automated. You could use an Apex and two DOS pumps. One would cover your water changes and the other could run your topoff. So long as you could run the RO tubing to you tank, you could set up your water station anywhere.

Something to consider in your budget is balancing regular expenses, such as a service company, and less regular expenses for equipment that would do the job.

 

[rjjr1963]

I have most of my 150 automated. You could use an Apex and two DOS pumps. One would cover your water changes and the other could run your topoff. So long as you could run the RO tubing to you tank, you could set up your water station anywhere.

Something to consider in your budget is balancing regular expenses, such as a service company, and less regular expenses for equipment that would do the job.

What are DOS pumps?

 

[tkeracer619]

So much has changed since you left the hobby. Fortunately I think many of your worries are easy to solve. I understand the important of a maintenance company coming over to take care of some of the more mundane and arduous tasks leaving you the good stuff. Sounds like a great plan!

The idea of a RSM tank sounds better than it really is. They are nice looking but they are really tailored to beginners. To me is sounds like you are planning to take this reef a level above. I use a RSM130D for coral/invert QT and nothing but the tank is stock. I don't even use the power strip.

There are several RODI systems out there who come with reservoirs or function directly with a reservoir. These will auto flush their membranes and keep a reservoir full without any extra effort. They also can operate at a great distance if you are able to run 1/4" RO tubing through the walls, floor, or ceiling.

Many of the reef controllers available also have controllable peristaltic pumps available. The DOS pump is one of those made by Neptune for the Apex controller.

If you want a calcium reactor I would suggest checking out a thread I started a few years back. This is absolutely the most set and forget CaRx setup. I have been using this setup for around 8 years, it is solid.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2368618

What exactly do you plan on keeping in this tank? I think before anyone can give you some good suggestions we need to know what it is you plan on keeping.

 

[jcjrogers]

Great info!

Regarding a Ca reactor, are there any reasonable new alternatives? When I was in the hobby before, the two-part stuff was so weak, I had to add a ton every day for my 75 gal, which is why I eventually got a Ca reactor. The Ca reactor was a little problematic in that it added more pumps to deal with and lock-up and setting the drip rate and CO2 injection was pretty much trial and error. Also, my tank always seemed to run a little low with pH so I ended up dosing kalk via my top-off system (my top-off pump was regulated to run pretty slow... I'm guessing maybe a gallon per hour or even slower). That was kind of messy but seemed to work. For Ca reactor adjustments, I pretty much just took Ca readings and fiddled with the solenoid and drip rate. I scanned tkeracer619's reactor thread but need to read more thoroughly as I don't fully understand. I understand pulling the water through the reactor, which I'm not arguing, but can see both good and bad. It appears that isn't the critical part, anyway, but that was the part I could easily follow.

I wish I could run something through the walls, but that isn't going to happen. I think I will have to make, transport, and then manually pour or pump into the top-off tank. I'll probably make most water using the spigot on the patio. That way, I can use a hose and fill under the breezeway or in the storage room. The main issue I see is extremely cold days in the winter. However, I live in the south, and we usually don't have more than 2-3 days per winter where the temperature never gets above freezing. My other option is my large bathroom, though connecting to that sink will likely be difficult. Does anybody try to reduce evaporation?

What do I want to keep? I'll give you the wrong answer, which is, "I don't know." My old 55 gal was mostly soft corals but I didn't run that as a reef as long and had only vho lighting. My 75 contained sps (mostly acros) and lps. I had a beautiful closed-brain that looked like something from outer space when just the actinics were running. I had a ton of xenia, some gorgonians, various polyps, and a bubble-tip anemone. I had some trouble with some lps. For whatever reason, my open brains didn't do as well as my closed or sps. My gorgonians and bubble-tip anemone did very well as did most sps. My BTA asexually split a couple of times. I even had a sea cucumber that asexually reproduced. I also had tomato clowns, fox face, yellow tang, green chromis, damsels, eventually a mandarin (it did quite well), and other fish over the years. I had cleaner and peppermint shrimp, hermit crabs, various snails, and so forth. I definitely wasn't a purist. I probably had an organism from every ocean and multiple reefs. I don't think I will do much different with corals, at least not at the start. Generally, polyps around the bottom, various lps (I want another closed-brain) in the middle, and sps near the top. I also want some similar gorgonians to what I had in the past as they moved with the current, which looked pretty cool. I'm sure I'll get clowns and an anemone. I might keep some xenia again, but it can be quite invasive, and I would likely keep an "island" just for xenia. For fish, I'll get whatever floats my boat, is reef compatible, and I can properly care for. With this being a larger tank, I would like to get a larger fish or two than what I had in the past. Obviously the fish have to be compatible with the other inhabitants.

 

[Zalick]

If cost is not much of an issue, meaning you are willing to spend on good quality components that will make your life as easy as possible, I would recommend looking at the following components. I use all of these for my system.

Controller - Neptune Apex. This will be the brain of the system and is simply amazing.

ATO & Water change - Genesis Renew & Storm. I only use the renew, as I have a Spectrapure uplc-ii for my ato. Genesis Renew is the the best auto water change system IMO. If your layout doesn't lend itself to the Genesis. You should check out Spectrapure Litermeter III. It does both ato and auto water change (awc). Its fantastic as well.

RO/DI - Specture Maxcap 2:1 6 stage. Making water quickly is worth the $$ if you can afford it. You can setup a low float switch and high float valve to turn it on and make water when empty. You don't want to have it consistantly making small amounts of water as there is some creep that occurs through the RO membrane.

 

[jcjrogers]

I looked at the Specture units and apparently, some have a float switch, but I don't really understand what that does unless it somehow shuts off flow of both the RO/DI and wastewater lines. If that is the case, my best bet might be to leave the RO/DI unit in the stand cabinet, and just keep rolled-up tubing that I run from my sink to the unit and then back from the unit to the sink or into the shower or whatever (wastewater side). It will be a long run and a PITA to bleed the tubing when done but would work. Another option I might get away with is to keep a Rubbermaid container of untreated water, pump that into the RO unit, splitting between the ATO tank and the water container (waste water side). This would even utilize all waste water. However, I would need a pump strong enough to push water through the unit and convince the wife to allow me to keep a garbage can of water in the room.

 

[Vwcrackerjack]

You may want to check out some of the shallow reef systems as well. Then you could possibly get more hands on with it. I use an apex and I haven't even scratched the surface of what it can do. I use my iPad to turn off my pump and skimmer when water changes are due and it monitors my salinity ph and temp but you can program it to do basically everything. Even watch your tank from a camera from anywhere in the world. I paid about $700 for mine with all the probes etc but you can get different packages and spend less and still have tons of things to program. The led lights are great as they can also be programmed and setup to your preferences as far as color and time schedules. They ramp up from 1% blue all the way to whatever you want and then ramp back down again for whatever time you decide to have it last. They even have some with programmed weather patterns to match what the weather is at your location. So if it's a thunder and lightning storm at your area your tank lights will actually flash and go dim and brights etc to mimic it. I was also out of the reef scene for years and just got back about a year ago and what a change it's become. Nano tanks have taken off and equipment and lighting and even the ability to keep fish and corals that we're doomed to death by most are now able to be had by everyone with proper maintenance and attention. I would say that if you research some quality tanks and read up on what they've used and done and try and put together a package that will fit you and work well. Pre planning out every detail is key. I over looked so many things and it just costs me stress money and frustration. A really good fish tank company will listen to all your concerns and try and give you the best options for your situation. Truly wish you the best! I don't know where you are located but if your anywhere around the NY NJ region I'd be happy to help whenever I am available. Even though I'm really just a rookie.

 

[Zalick]

I looked at the Specture units and apparently, some have a float switch, but I don't really understand what that does unless it somehow shuts off flow of both the RO/DI and wastewater lines. If that is the case, my best bet might be to leave the RO/DI unit in the stand cabinet, and just keep rolled-up tubing that I run from my sink to the unit and then back from the unit to the sink or into the shower or whatever (wastewater side). It will be a long run and a PITA to bleed the tubing when done but would work. Another option I might get away with is to keep a Rubbermaid container of untreated water, pump that into the RO unit, splitting between the ATO tank and the water container (waste water side). This would even utilize all waste water. However, I would need a pump strong enough to push water through the unit and convince the wife to allow me to keep a garbage can of water in the room.

There is a pressure valve in the unit so if the RO line stops, everything stops. If you have water plumbed in the garage, you can setup a water making station out there easy. Or a little shed on the side of the house etc. There is a thread on here called water making stations with some awesome ideas for all types of houses/setups. I'll post the link here in a minute. My ATO setup has a 1/4" line that goes under the floor in to the garage where the water is made. There is a peristaltic pump under the stand that pulls the RO water from the garage. Its a tiny quiet pump.

 

[jcjrogers]

I don't know where you are located but if your anywhere around the NY NJ region I'd be happy to help whenever I am available. Even though I'm really just a rookie.

Thanks for the offer to help, Vwcrackerjack. I've updated my location in my profile. If you ever come visit Elvis, let me know.:idea:

 

[jcjrogers]

I looked at some of the water station information... pretty sophisticated. However, a Christmas tree of valves and pvc, managing and manipulating water running throughout the house will likely have issues like leaks, which creates a big problem for me. Simply, I likely can't get to it, which leaves me dependent on someone else to come deal with. Leaks are always an issue, but if the problem is confined to one area (around the tank), there is a lot better chance of me being able to handle or at least contain.

I need some combination of automation and relatively simple manual processes. For instance, my kitchen sink is a straight shot from where the tank will be and maybe 30' or so away. Unfortunately, I don't think I can hook anything up to that sink as it has a rounded head (sort of like a small shower head), connected to a hose allowing it to also be a rinser. However, run water into a bucket and put a pump connected to 30' of hose/tubing in the bucket, and now there is a way to transport water with two options: 1) Run it to a RO/DI unit right there and then transport RO/DI via 30' of tubing to a holding tank next to the display tank, or 2) Transport tap water to the holding tank via 30' of hose/larger tubing and then pump the holding tank water through the RO/DI unit as needed. I can come up with ideas, they just aren't often very good... I'm a Keystone Cop trying to be MacGyver.