Algae algae on my glass
- Thread starter jasonvm
- Start date
Saboral
New member
No one else has mentioned it but the temperature of 79 sounds alittle high to me. Algae tend to thrive in high temperature due partially to the lower Dissolved Oxygen content of your tank. I would try bringing your tank down to 75 degrees and see if it helps. When my tank ran around 79-82 I had severe algae problems as well.
SpiderCrab2
New member
Get a mexican turbo snail - Those suckers eat everything including the algae out of my pump discharge.
Kinda cool to watch them hang on for a little snack.
Kinda cool to watch them hang on for a little snack.
lamarine23
New member
Pellet food is high in PO4??? Where are you getting your info from?
There are far too many variables please post complete water parameters and system specs e.g. pumps, skimmer, sump etc...
Jesse
There are far too many variables please post complete water parameters and system specs e.g. pumps, skimmer, sump etc...
Jesse
Canarygirl
New member
Multiple sources...I can't remember them all but recently I observed a demonstration where pellet food was dissolved in a cup of fresh SW and tested with Salifert PO4 test and the color came out very dark blue indicating high PO4.
lamarine23
New member
Anecdotal at best....I agree that may be the case for some of the cheaper brands but not the good one, secondly frozen has far more po4, just think how it is packaged and what it is.
On a side note how do you like your ATB skimmer?
On a side note how do you like your ATB skimmer?
miwoodar
Likey the bikey
I've heard it a number of times as well but I don't recall ever reading it from a reputable author (not to say I haven't, but I can't recall who/what/where/when if I have). I would like to see documentation though if anyone knows of any.
You could probably dissolve just about any food into a cup of saltwater and come up with a similar result...it's an extremely high dose relative to the water volume.
BTW - I've also heard flakes, the gelatin used in frozen aquarium foods, and the additives added to fresh and frozen seafoods are all high in phosphates. That is all grapevine information as well...who knows which has more phosphate than the next?
You could probably dissolve just about any food into a cup of saltwater and come up with a similar result...it's an extremely high dose relative to the water volume.
BTW - I've also heard flakes, the gelatin used in frozen aquarium foods, and the additives added to fresh and frozen seafoods are all high in phosphates. That is all grapevine information as well...who knows which has more phosphate than the next?
if you're running phosban or something similar now, you may want to try a guerilla tactic that helped me fight back an annoying red turf outbreak. use a smaller amount than normal, and change it out every two weeks. do this for a couple of months. 48" lights suggest you've got a similar dimensioned tank to mine, on 150 gal total volume i used 1/2 a small container of phosban (750g?) at a time.
if you run a fuge, this will not exactly make your chaeto grow.
i wouldn't do this if you aren't already running a phosphate remover.
if you run a fuge, this will not exactly make your chaeto grow.
i wouldn't do this if you aren't already running a phosphate remover.
miwoodar
Likey the bikey
He is running a GFO...and that is very good advice to change it out more often for a period of time to see what happens to the algae. Right now he's changing it monthly. This might be a standardish recommendation but he needs to outcompete the algae that is growing in his system. GFO reaches an equilibrium of sorts with the PO4 level in the tank and, in the context of wanting to further reduce PO4 levels beyond whetever they are at that moment, looses it's effectiveness when it does.
A review of JetCat's thread would be helpful...http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1182318
I need to get out of this forum - I have no business being here.
A review of JetCat's thread would be helpful...http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1182318
I need to get out of this forum - I have no business being here.
Last edited:
jnarowe
New member
jasonvm:
There are many issues that could be affecting your water quality and giving fuel to your HA. This is an issue that plagues us all at some point and the key is to whittle down the contributors until you get it knocked out. The following is a basic check list that I recommend to anyone having HA issues and includes some tips to help you get the upper hand.
1. Many people recommend manual removal and I think this is about as bizarre as it gets. That does nothing to solve the nutrient issue and just gives rise to more HA growth. The first thing I would do is put a 1 hour nap in your light cycle.
Algae is one of the lowest forms of life on earth and takes considerable energy to ramp up photosynthesis. This is common knowledge in the FW Planted side of the hobby but doesn't seem to have made it over to reef keeping yet. A nap will help keep the HA down, but will not negatively affect higher life forms like corals and clams. This gives you the opportunity to work your way through all the other stuff.
2. I would not put in any animal to eat the HA. This is a very common suggestion but has no value in stopping HA growth. All it does is process the nutrients, use some, and crap out the rest. Mexican Turbo snails are not a good solution. Anyone who owns them and observes them closely will tell you they mow down HA like crazy, and leave gigantic piles of poo in their path. Typically, HA is being fed by nutrients within the system, and poo just adds fuel to the fire. The tank will "look" better but you will not have solved the problem.
3. testing:
-- a) test the aquarium for PO4, Nitrate, Nitrite, and ammonia.
-- b) test your water change water for PO4, Nitrate, Nitrite, and ammonia.
-- c) test your RO/DI water for PO4, Nitrate, Nitrite, and ammonia.
-- d) test your tap water for PO4, Nitrate, Nitrite, and ammonia.
Now you have a way to track down the source of the nutrients and figure out where the problem is.
If your tap water is OK but your RO/DI is not good enough, the problem could be in your purification process.
If your tap water and RO/DI are good, but your water change water has issues, then you can deal with that.
And of course, if it's just the tank water, then move to the next steps.
4. Analyze what you are putting in the tank:
-- a) any additives? Do you know what their ingredients are?
-- b) food: are you accidentally adding too many nutrients through the feeding process? ALL FOOD CONTAINS NUTRIENTS NO MATTER WHAT YOU READ ON THE LABEL OR HEAR FROM "EXPERTS". The questions is, are you doing the right things to limit free nutrients from entering the water column?
I do not recommend the use of any dry food whatsoever. Many of them have ingredients that are detrimental to fish health, they offer very little nutritional value by weight, and they carry huge amounts of unwanted nutrients into the water column.
I have tested virtually every popular dry food on the market and the results are startling to say the least. The problem with the dry food is that you can't rinse out excess nutrients. With frozen food you can.
I hosted the January meeting of the PSAS and did a fairly extensive demonstration of how to test dry foods, how to prepare frozen foods, and how to feed the tank in a manner that drastically limits the amount of excess (uneaten) nutrients that go into the tank.
Rather than get into a detailed description of that here, you can PM me for more discussion and a how-to guide. Believe me, what I showed the PSAS members made a lot of jaws hit the ground.
5. Husbandry:
-- a) are you cleaning out the detritus? Do you have enough flow around your rocks to keep it in suspension so your skimmer can pull it out? Are you vacuuming out your sump when you do water changes?
-- b) are you dong regular water changes?
-- c) are you maintaining you lamps and changing out bulbs on a regular schedule?
-- d) is your bio-load too high? Should you get rid of some animals to lighten the load?
-- e) Is your skimmer performing well or does it need to be cleaned or upgraded?
-- f) Are you employing carbon, and if so, are you changing it out regularly? Carbon typically has less than a week of effective DOC removal and then becomes a bacterial haven. Once they have established themselves, you carbon could actually become a nitrate factory.
-- g) Are you using GFO, and if so, are you changing it out regularly?
-- h) are you removing any dead and decaying animals? Have any fish disappeared recently? has an anemone imploded?
-- i) have any animals spawned?
OK...I am getting tired so I will quit here. You are most welcome to PM for more support.
Oh yeah...just a little tidbit from my dry food ingredient glossary:
Ethoxyquin is a quinoline-based antioxidant used as a food preservative and a pesticide (under commercial names such as "Stop-Scald"). It is commonly used as a preservative in pet foods to prevent the rancidification of fats. There has been some speculation that ethoxyquin in pet foods might be responsible for certain health problems. To date, the US FDA has only found a verifiable connection between ethoxyquin and buildup of protoporphyrin IX in the liver, as well as elevations in liver-related enzymes in some animals. It has been shown to cause mortality in fish.
There are many issues that could be affecting your water quality and giving fuel to your HA. This is an issue that plagues us all at some point and the key is to whittle down the contributors until you get it knocked out. The following is a basic check list that I recommend to anyone having HA issues and includes some tips to help you get the upper hand.
1. Many people recommend manual removal and I think this is about as bizarre as it gets. That does nothing to solve the nutrient issue and just gives rise to more HA growth. The first thing I would do is put a 1 hour nap in your light cycle.
Algae is one of the lowest forms of life on earth and takes considerable energy to ramp up photosynthesis. This is common knowledge in the FW Planted side of the hobby but doesn't seem to have made it over to reef keeping yet. A nap will help keep the HA down, but will not negatively affect higher life forms like corals and clams. This gives you the opportunity to work your way through all the other stuff.
2. I would not put in any animal to eat the HA. This is a very common suggestion but has no value in stopping HA growth. All it does is process the nutrients, use some, and crap out the rest. Mexican Turbo snails are not a good solution. Anyone who owns them and observes them closely will tell you they mow down HA like crazy, and leave gigantic piles of poo in their path. Typically, HA is being fed by nutrients within the system, and poo just adds fuel to the fire. The tank will "look" better but you will not have solved the problem.
3. testing:
-- a) test the aquarium for PO4, Nitrate, Nitrite, and ammonia.
-- b) test your water change water for PO4, Nitrate, Nitrite, and ammonia.
-- c) test your RO/DI water for PO4, Nitrate, Nitrite, and ammonia.
-- d) test your tap water for PO4, Nitrate, Nitrite, and ammonia.
Now you have a way to track down the source of the nutrients and figure out where the problem is.
If your tap water is OK but your RO/DI is not good enough, the problem could be in your purification process.
If your tap water and RO/DI are good, but your water change water has issues, then you can deal with that.
And of course, if it's just the tank water, then move to the next steps.
4. Analyze what you are putting in the tank:
-- a) any additives? Do you know what their ingredients are?
-- b) food: are you accidentally adding too many nutrients through the feeding process? ALL FOOD CONTAINS NUTRIENTS NO MATTER WHAT YOU READ ON THE LABEL OR HEAR FROM "EXPERTS". The questions is, are you doing the right things to limit free nutrients from entering the water column?
I do not recommend the use of any dry food whatsoever. Many of them have ingredients that are detrimental to fish health, they offer very little nutritional value by weight, and they carry huge amounts of unwanted nutrients into the water column.
I have tested virtually every popular dry food on the market and the results are startling to say the least. The problem with the dry food is that you can't rinse out excess nutrients. With frozen food you can.
I hosted the January meeting of the PSAS and did a fairly extensive demonstration of how to test dry foods, how to prepare frozen foods, and how to feed the tank in a manner that drastically limits the amount of excess (uneaten) nutrients that go into the tank.
Rather than get into a detailed description of that here, you can PM me for more discussion and a how-to guide. Believe me, what I showed the PSAS members made a lot of jaws hit the ground.
5. Husbandry:
-- a) are you cleaning out the detritus? Do you have enough flow around your rocks to keep it in suspension so your skimmer can pull it out? Are you vacuuming out your sump when you do water changes?
-- b) are you dong regular water changes?
-- c) are you maintaining you lamps and changing out bulbs on a regular schedule?
-- d) is your bio-load too high? Should you get rid of some animals to lighten the load?
-- e) Is your skimmer performing well or does it need to be cleaned or upgraded?
-- f) Are you employing carbon, and if so, are you changing it out regularly? Carbon typically has less than a week of effective DOC removal and then becomes a bacterial haven. Once they have established themselves, you carbon could actually become a nitrate factory.
-- g) Are you using GFO, and if so, are you changing it out regularly?
-- h) are you removing any dead and decaying animals? Have any fish disappeared recently? has an anemone imploded?
-- i) have any animals spawned?
OK...I am getting tired so I will quit here. You are most welcome to PM for more support.
Oh yeah...just a little tidbit from my dry food ingredient glossary:
Ethoxyquin is a quinoline-based antioxidant used as a food preservative and a pesticide (under commercial names such as "Stop-Scald"). It is commonly used as a preservative in pet foods to prevent the rancidification of fats. There has been some speculation that ethoxyquin in pet foods might be responsible for certain health problems. To date, the US FDA has only found a verifiable connection between ethoxyquin and buildup of protoporphyrin IX in the liver, as well as elevations in liver-related enzymes in some animals. It has been shown to cause mortality in fish.
Canarygirl
New member
excellent post, jnarowe....thank you. 
canarygirl, this is not the first time i've come to the conclusion that jnarowe has forgotten more than i've ever known in this hobby.
i've a phosphate testing question: given the inaccuracy of hobby grade test kits, the inexperience in proper testing procedures of hobbyists, and the fact that organic phosphates are bound in the cr@p growing in your tank: why should i test for phosphates?
i've a phosphate testing question: given the inaccuracy of hobby grade test kits, the inexperience in proper testing procedures of hobbyists, and the fact that organic phosphates are bound in the cr@p growing in your tank: why should i test for phosphates?
jnarowe
New member
because it's all you got. I know the tests are limited in accuracy but the way I look at it, if anything at all shows up, I need to pay better attention to my husbandry. There are lots of visual cues too like the HA, coral and fish behavior, etc. but testing brings the hobbyist a confirmation that generally will result in some sort of action, whether it be to fine tune or call for help.
The difference between the Salifert and Merck tests is significant, but both tests will give you a clue that not all the phosphate in the system is being used for biological processes.
For our January meeting, I set up a testing station so members could test their own foods. For this station I used a Salifert system and specialized directions for testing food. I only witnessed one person use it, and he did not fully understand the length of time I prescribed for a soak (too short), but still got a PO4 of 1.0 for his Formula One Pellet.
I used the Merck test for the demonstration and had a participant do the test. We tested the Formula Two Frozen food by having two samples. One sample was soaked in RO/DI for half an hour and then using that settled water for the test, it was off the Merck chart.
The second sample was soaked in RO/DI for half an hour, then thoroughly rinsed with RO/DI, then soaked again in RO/DI. That one showed about 1/3 the PO4. All during the demonstration I soaked and rinsed ingredients and the catch bucket was just plain nasty muddy water.
So no claim by me to be particularly scientific, but the basic premise of our discussion was that we can do things to limit "unused" nutrient import.
And what I do when I feed is take that soaked and rinsed food, now frozen, and soak it again in tank water with added vitamins. Then I strain it completely before feeding the tank.
So how do we get to this? By testing!
The difference between the Salifert and Merck tests is significant, but both tests will give you a clue that not all the phosphate in the system is being used for biological processes.
For our January meeting, I set up a testing station so members could test their own foods. For this station I used a Salifert system and specialized directions for testing food. I only witnessed one person use it, and he did not fully understand the length of time I prescribed for a soak (too short), but still got a PO4 of 1.0 for his Formula One Pellet.
I used the Merck test for the demonstration and had a participant do the test. We tested the Formula Two Frozen food by having two samples. One sample was soaked in RO/DI for half an hour and then using that settled water for the test, it was off the Merck chart.
The second sample was soaked in RO/DI for half an hour, then thoroughly rinsed with RO/DI, then soaked again in RO/DI. That one showed about 1/3 the PO4. All during the demonstration I soaked and rinsed ingredients and the catch bucket was just plain nasty muddy water.
So no claim by me to be particularly scientific, but the basic premise of our discussion was that we can do things to limit "unused" nutrient import.
And what I do when I feed is take that soaked and rinsed food, now frozen, and soak it again in tank water with added vitamins. Then I strain it completely before feeding the tank.
So how do we get to this? By testing!
jnarowe
New member
I wouldn't do it that way. I would either have a RDSB that I swapped out 1/3 of the sand every 6 months, or I would go the Steve Weast route and vacuum weekly. Then when the sand volume got low, replace by lowering in thoroughly rinsed sand in a filter sock.
These both require some serious dedication and full access to your system. There are many mature systems around the world with DSBs that have been up for years, so it can be done, but I would bet those reef keepers are doing other husbandry tasks to maintain their systems' health.
These both require some serious dedication and full access to your system. There are many mature systems around the world with DSBs that have been up for years, so it can be done, but I would bet those reef keepers are doing other husbandry tasks to maintain their systems' health.
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