Algae & Cyano Low Nutrients

[cjpitt80]

Hello,
I have a "moderate" green/brown hair algae problem in my display tank. Just enough to be annoying. I also have film, red slim cyano on the sand. My Ammonia, Nitrates, Nitrites measure Zero. I run chaeto and green sea lettuce in my fuge. Fuge section is about 8 gallons in 29gal sump. DT is 75. Fuge is illuminated about 12hrs opposite of DT lights. There's also hair algae in the fuge as seen in pic. Should I try and remove this at all? I skim 24/7. Any ideas on source of algae with such low nutrients? Livestock is a few LPS euphyllia corals, 1 monti digi, 1 monti cap, a pair of Ocellaris clowns, a flasher, a cardinal, and a CUC of coral banded shrimp, fire shrimp hermits, cerith, and nerites, no more than 7 of any one kind. Last Triton is here.https://www.triton-lab.de/en/showroom/aquarium/auswertung-b/icp-oes/60827/

 

[Uncle99]

Your phosphate Is?
Your tank age is?

 

[cjpitt80]

Your phosphate Is?
Your tank age is?

I have to update my signature. Tank's been up and running since 5/14/18
Phosphate PO4 according to last Triton test is 0.03366 mg/l

https://photos.app.goo.gl/BM5wZED3CpfeMMhk6

 

[Uncle99]

5 months a bit young still, ugly stages is a PITA, that phosphate level is on point!

 

[cjpitt80]

5 months a bit young still, ugly stages is a PITA, that phosphate level is on point!

First 3 months I had no appreciable algae. I thought I could skip the ugly stage LOL. I'm just confused with the nutrient level being so low. I was actually considering dosing nitrates to 2-5ppm for the corals, but I'm scared that will supercharge algae and cyano in the display. Everytime I check, I get 0ppm nitrate using the Red Sea kit. When I cycled my QT I tested with the same kit and got up to 20ppm nitrate, so I don't think there's anything wrong with the testing kit. From my understanding, it could only be the lights, right? I'm contemplating removing as much as I can from the display and going for a 72hr blackout period in the display and leaving the 'fuge light on for 72hrs

 

[mcgyvr]

Algae requires nutrients and light to survive..
So do corals,etc...
If there are enough nutrients for corals there are enough for algae.. Its a constant battle..
Starve algae you also starve corals..

When a tank is still new (under 1 year old) algae typically wins the battle for nutrients and grows/runs rampant.. As the tank matures it usually starts to recede as competition is greater.
Cyano "seems" to be more about an imbalance of nutrients in some cases..

The reason you are confused is simply because you thought you could skip the ugly stages.. You would be wrong.. Diatoms.. Then green hair/film algae then cyano and almost always in that order.. You are right on schedule..

A 3 day blackout will be helpful at this point beyond that you just need to wait and have patience..

 

[cjpitt80]

Algae requires nutrients and light to survive..
So do corals,etc...
If there are enough nutrients for corals there are enough for algae.. Its a constant battle..
Starve algae you also starve corals..

When a tank is still new (under 1 year old) algae typically wins the battle for nutrients and grows/runs rampant.. As the tank matures it usually starts to recede as competition is greater.
Cyano "seems" to be more about an imbalance of nutrients in some cases..

The reason you are confused is simply because you thought you could skip the ugly stages.. You would be wrong.. Diatoms.. Then green hair/film algae then cyano and almost always in that order.. You are right on schedule..

A 3 day blackout will be helpful at this point beyond that you just need to wait and have patience..

The "skip" comment was mostly in jest (though not totally). Since I never had a big bloom and I thought I was building slowly, perhaps my system wouldn't suffer too much. Diatoms are the red/brown dust looking particles, right? If so, I definitely had those and still a little on the sand. If I did the 3day blackout, would I keep the 'fuge light on during that time? Also, about balance would dosing nitrates be advisable now for overall coral health, or not? I don't want to fuel a huge algae bloom, but I should shoot for 2-5ppm nitrate for a healthy mixed reef tank, right? Because I have nuisance algae, I'd expect to have detectable levels of nitrate, that's what's confusing. Also, is there any reason to try and remove some of the hair/film algae in the fuge? There's some in there along with the sea lettuce and chaeto. Thanks!

 

[mcgyvr]

I advise against dosing nitrate in a newish tank.. You certainly can if you want but a bunch of algae could certainly be masking the nitrate/phosphate levels and its just more fuel for the algae..
Give it time to mature before messing with it..
You can certainly manually remove whatever algae you want/can..

You have cyano in the fuge too right? If so turn the lights off for 3 days there too..
Cyano is best treated by manually siphoning as much as you can out during a water change then 3 day lights out... then siphon out whats left.. repeat as needed every couple weeks..

 

[pisanoal]

What is your CUC like? Sounds like you need more herbivores though that wont help your cyano problem, it will help the rest. You need to keep algae down with cuc so your nutrients go to the coral.

Honestly, i don't think raising your nitrates a couple ppm will make a huge difference. It hasn't in my experience at least. More algae? Sure, but usually not by "supercharged" levels.

 

[cjpitt80]

I advise against dosing nitrate in a newish tank.. You certainly can if you want but a bunch of algae could certainly be masking the nitrate/phosphate levels and its just more fuel for the algae..
Give it time to mature before messing with it..
You can certainly manually remove whatever algae you want/can..

You have cyano in the fuge too right? If so turn the lights off for 3 days there too..
Cyano is best treated by manually siphoning as much as you can out during a water change then 3 day lights out... then siphon out whats left.. repeat as needed every couple weeks..

OK thanks. I just started Triton dosing about a week ago, so I'll hold off on too many variables for now. I haven't really noticed much cyano in the fuge just film and hair algae. It is somewhat difficult to see with that pinkish purple light though. I have a gravel vac that seems to do a pretty decent job sucking up most of the cyano (where I can maneuver it around the rocks). I haven't done a water change in about a month on account of the Triton

 

[cjpitt80]

What is your CUC like? Sounds like you need more herbivores though that wont help your cyano problem, it will help the rest. You need to keep algae down with cuc so your nutrients go to the coral.

Honestly, i don't think raising your nitrates a couple ppm will make a huge difference. It hasn't in my experience at least. More algae? Sure, but usually not by "supercharged" levels.

CUC is Nassarius, nerite, cerith, astrea snails, about 5 each. 7 hermits, and 4 emerald crabs

 

[pisanoal]

CUC is Nassarius, nerite, cerith, astrea snails, about 5 each. 7 hermits, and 4 emerald crabs

I'd probably add a few turbos to that too. The only ones in there that will really go after hair algae are the astrea (maybe), and of course the emeralds. The rest are more film algae or detritus.

Margarita snails can do some damage on algae too though supposedly they dont live very long in aquariums (6 months is what is often cited).

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk

 

[Uncle99]

I had the same "battles" with algae month 5-8.
Month 9 to 12 got a lot better as water chemistry and nutrient import/export came into balance. In this period I did a ton of testing, some daily like Alk, some weekly and after recording, a pattern showed up. In month 12 I got some red hair algae. 5 Mexican turbos clean every bit in two weeks.

Now month 13 to date, 24 months, the battle is over and I simply do WC and daily dosing to maintain those parameters. I also use NoPox to keep nutrients in my range 5 ppm ish, and .05 phosphate is managed occassionally with a temp use of Rowa. When adding fish or inverts, the load changes, nitrates increase, then subsequently fall as bacteria population plays catch up. NoPox does work well to keep the nitrates in the sweet spit, for me, a mixed reef, seems 5 is ideal.

I noticed when I provided, consistent on point water and developed a practice to keep these stable, no matter what coral I drop in, opens right away and stays full. I have not lost a coral in the last 12 months.

I think you just need to continue to do what your doing and focus on water chemistry stability and let nature do the rest.

Sometimes CUC add nutrients rather than clean them up, your list looks fine. If you like thus diversity that's fine, one can do the same with no CUC.

Margarita snails come from colder waters and May last a month.
monitor water closely and regularly and adjust those parameters which vary.

Your almost there!

 

[cjpitt80]

I had the same "battles" with algae month 5-8.
Month 9 to 12 got a lot better as water chemistry and nutrient import/export came into balance. In this period I did a ton of testing, some daily like Alk, some weekly and after recording, a pattern showed up. In month 12 I got some red hair algae. 5 Mexican turbos clean every bit in two weeks.

Now month 13 to date, 24 months, the battle is over and I simply do WC and daily dosing to maintain those parameters. I also use NoPox to keep nutrients in my range 5 ppm ish, and .05 phosphate is managed occassionally with a temp use of Rowa. When adding fish or inverts, the load changes, nitrates increase, then subsequently fall as bacteria population plays catch up. NoPox does work well to keep the nitrates in the sweet spit, for me, a mixed reef, seems 5 is ideal.

I noticed when I provided, consistent on point water and developed a practice to keep these stable, no matter what coral I drop in, opens right away and stays full. I have not lost a coral in the last 12 months.

I think you just need to continue to do what your doing and focus on water chemistry stability and let nature do the rest.

Sometimes CUC add nutrients rather than clean them up, your list looks fine. If you like thus diversity that's fine, one can do the same with no CUC.

Margarita snails come from colder waters and May last a month.
monitor water closely and regularly and adjust those parameters which vary.

Your almost there!

Well the most frustrating thing is the nutrients. I have all this ugly algae but low nutrients I've FINALLY gotten the nitrates up to 1.5-2ppm. With Triton dosing and using an ATO, everything seems to be stable and I've added fish slowly as to not overload the system. Still have ugly algae and/or cyano on the sand bed

 

[Uncle99]

I like those nitrate numbers.
Doin all the right things, keep it up, at one point, algae will go translucent, then start diminishing, the change will be quite noticeable.

Good luck

 

[homer1475]

What you have to realize also, the algae is using up the available nutrients from the water column before your test kit is registering them. Therefore your nutrient levels are actually higher then what your test kit is telling you.



I would not be adding anything until I got the algae in check.



In my new tank I had the same issue, all 0's yet a huge algae outbreak. Just keep up with manual removal, WC's, and control the input into the tank and it will eventually sort itself out. :thumbsup:

 

[cjpitt80]

What you have to realize also, the algae is using up the available nutrients from the water column before your test kit is registering them. Therefore your nutrient levels are actually higher then what your test kit is telling you.



I would not be adding anything until I got the algae in check.



In my new tank I had the same issue, all 0's yet a huge algae outbreak. Just keep up with manual removal, WC's, and control the input into the tank and it will eventually sort itself out. :thumbsup:

That's what I was thinking. Nuisance algae eating nutrients same rate tank is producing them. Like I said previously, I didn't think I would have this issue since my nitrates were NEVER over 0. Anyway, I'm not doing WCs since I'm running Triton, but if I see nitrates over 5ppm, I guess I'll start. Is there a preferred method to remove the cyano film on the sandbed? I had a gravel vac the kinda stirred up the sand and broke up the film, but it doesn't really do a good job of removing anything. I use a turkey baster to kinda break up and blow cyano film off the rocks, but again it doesn't really get "removed" all that well

 

[Uncle99]

That's what I was thinking. Nuisance algae eating nutrients same rate tank is producing them. Like I said previously, I didn't think I would have this issue since my nitrates were NEVER over 0. Anyway, I'm not doing WCs since I'm running Triton, but if I see nitrates over 5ppm, I guess I'll start. Is there a preferred method to remove the cyano film on the sandbed? I had a gravel vac the kinda stirred up the sand and broke up the film, but it doesn't really do a good job of removing anything. I use a turkey baster to kinda break up and blow cyano film off the rocks, but again it doesn't really get "removed" all that well

You need enough suction in the pipe to,pick it up....I use a "Python" which I can control flow rate at the source for example....I would take it out for sure....

 

[homer1475]

What I like to do is clamp a filter sock onto my sump, then use a long hose and stuff it into the filter sock. Just suck off the top layer, what sand does get sucked up, can be rinsed out, dried out, and reused.



I then employ a turkey baster, and again the siphon in the filter sock for the heavy mats on the rocks. Turkey baster usually has enough strength to loosen it.

 

[cjpitt80]

Ugh Water changes!!!
Well I'll start cleaning this crap up