Algae Scrubber Basics

+1

I'd like to know this also, I use the Fuge light. The thing grows calerupa as well as hair algae like frigging crazy in my fuge section. I could get another to do two sides if needed.

I see that Reefbreeders sells a Par38 fuge/ATS light for $80. Has anyone used this for their ATS? I've not tried a DIY LED setup, but seems that I'd be hard pressed to make anything for less than $80.

I feed my tank about the equivalent of 3-4 cubes per day, so I'd need a dual-sided scrubber of 36 - 48 sq inches, so figure that a par38 bulb would have sufficient light spread for a 6x6 or 7x7 sheet?

Hopefully I've not butchered my math here :)
 
Wow, this thread is amazing.. I havent read it all but I am intrigued.

I am running into some budget issues with my 300gallon build, and I think that this system would be an awesome alternative to running GFO/Biopellets.

With my 300 gallon setup, I dont know that I would be able to do this properly through overflow (there will be likely almost 2,000 gph going through a durso setup).

Since I plan on having a manifold setup with my return pump (reeflo dart), would this work if I run the scrubber through a 1" manifold controlled by a ball valve?

I usually feed my fish frozen brine shrimp... The kind you buy in sheets, so Im having a hard time figuring out how many cubes I feed a day, I would guess maybe 1.5? This is for my current 65gal tank, but the 240 will have alot more fish/corals.

Also Does running an algae scrubber essentially render a refugium useless? I currently grow a few versions of tang heaven to feed my tangs.

You certainly can tap off the return pump. Some people have had issues getting the screen to start growing with this method, usually this can be attributed to the scrubber being "last in line" and the water flow through the sump is slow, so the return water is "too clean". If you have a lot of flow in relation to the filtration in the sump, then your return water is just a little cleaner, and there would be enough for the scrubber to process. At least, that is what makes sense to me. So if you've got 2000 GPH through your sump, you're probably good however you set it up.

The feeding guideline has conversions for non-cube food, it's in the basics posts (post # in my sig) and it's 10 sq in of nori = 1 cube but I also think that is just a rough guess. So a full sheet of nori would be about 3 cubes.

For your sheet of brine shrimp, just compare what you feed to what comes in a standard cube tray.

The point of the sizing guideline is to get you close to what you need without going too far over. If the size of screen that you think you need ends up being less than double what you actually need, you're good. If you're over double, then you might have some trouble getting thicker growth but it will still work. In reality, it's hard to build one wrong as long as you follow the core basics:

1) get the proper screen material, and rough it up very, very well
2) provide at least 35 GPH per inch of screen width, actual flow, not calculated (but a good rule of thumb is that the slot pipe counts as 2 feet of head loss).
3) provide enough light in the proper spectrum (photoperiod somewhat depends on source type and intensity)

You can have a scrubber and a refugium at the same time. As long as you feed enough, and the scrubber isn't oversized or too powerful (you can control this by varying the photoperiod) then there will be enough to go around.

You can also run biopellets and a scrubber at the same time. Again, it is a bit of a balance and works better on larger and/or heavily stocked & fed tanks. In that case, there seems to be a symbiotic relationship between carbon dosing and algae growth. Still learning about this but it is very interesting to see someone running a full canister of biopellets and also getting massive scrubber growth, to the point where the screen needs to be cleaned every 5 days.
 
I have a good sized reactor with a couple of lbs of biopellets, a large protein skimmer, and an upflow algae scrubber all running on my large tank. I scrape off a fair amount of algae every weekend. Nitrates and phosphates stay low :)
 
There's another example! It is a great combination of filtration to run with a large, heavily loaded tank. To me one of the biggest reasons is redundancy.

I wouldn't go as far to say that bacterial populations are slow to react to changes in nutrient levels, but a short-term growth or death cycle related to nutrient levels in theory could cause fluctuations in the "capacity" of a bacterial colony and the "dumping" of waste into the tank (due to shrinking colony).

The algae scrubber on the other hand will grow in conjunction with nutrients, so I see it sort of as a buffer to these potential changes. Also, in the event of a die off, be that bacterial colony, fish, snail, etc, the algae can adsorb this 'waste' (ammonia) very well.

Again, this is (to me) a relatively new concept, but so far, the results of many who are running this combination seem to support the concept. AS with many things in this hobby, all we have is the anecdotal evidence or trial and error.
 
+1

I'd like to know this also, I use the Fuge light. The thing grows calerupa as well as hair algae like frigging crazy in my fuge section. I could get another to do two sides if needed.

Well, I just ordered two through a group buy for $60 each so I guess I will find out for myself.

Awesome thread BTW. ATS have come a long way since I tried one 18 years ago.
 
Would it be better for me to T off my overflow line comming down from display tank and run the turf scrubber off that instead of running it off my manifold?

I doubt this design can handle ~3000gph going through that little 1" PVC pipe, but I could be wrong!

Also, do you guys run a skimmer with this, or is that pointless? Im exploring doing this because my tank build is a bit over budget, and I didnt want to shell out $700 for a good skimmer for 300gal.
 
There has been some back and forth on this issue over time. I got a lot of feedback that seemed to indicate that running a scrubber caused a change in the way the skimmer functioned, in general, less and lighter skimmate. My thought was that there is some crossover between scrubber and skimmer functional 'zones'. Also there is evidence that suggests that the aeration provided by a skimmer does benefit scrubber growth, to the point where I recommend placing the scrubber input pump adjacent to the skimmer effluent, or at least downline from the skimmer.

There are many known and probably many unknown/unquantified benefits of running a skimmer, so far be it for me to recommend discontinuing their use - I think that is a bad line of reasoning.

However, if you use multiple forms of filtration, I feel that you can use smaller-than-recommended sizes of each type of equipment. If everything were only rated by the 'cube of food per day' instead of tank size, this would be easy. But the long and short of it is that if you run a scrubber, you can probably get away with a more modestly sized skimmer. So go for quality instead of size. If that doesn't seem to be cutting the mustard, then it's easier to offload a used smaller skimmer and upgrade. If you pop for the large expensive skimmer and it's overkill, that's extra money that could have gone somewhere else.

My personal fav is Reef Octopus, so far, I've never had a bad one, pretty much plug and play, reliable, and not too expensive. I run a NW-150 on a 210 with a 2 cube/day scrubber and filter socks on one of my tanks and it does pretty well.
 
There has been some back and forth on this issue over time. I got a lot of feedback that seemed to indicate that running a scrubber caused a change in the way the skimmer functioned, in general, less and lighter skimmate. My thought was that there is some crossover between scrubber and skimmer functional 'zones'. Also there is evidence that suggests that the aeration provided by a skimmer does benefit scrubber growth, to the point where I recommend placing the scrubber input pump adjacent to the skimmer effluent, or at least downline from the skimmer.

There are many known and probably many unknown/unquantified benefits of running a skimmer, so far be it for me to recommend discontinuing their use - I think that is a bad line of reasoning.

However, if you use multiple forms of filtration, I feel that you can use smaller-than-recommended sizes of each type of equipment. If everything were only rated by the 'cube of food per day' instead of tank size, this would be easy. But the long and short of it is that if you run a scrubber, you can probably get away with a more modestly sized skimmer. So go for quality instead of size. If that doesn't seem to be cutting the mustard, then it's easier to offload a used smaller skimmer and upgrade. If you pop for the large expensive skimmer and it's overkill, that's extra money that could have gone somewhere else.

My personal fav is Reef Octopus, so far, I've never had a bad one, pretty much plug and play, reliable, and not too expensive. I run a NW-150 on a 210 with a 2 cube/day scrubber and filter socks on one of my tanks and it does pretty well.

What do you think about the idea of T'ing off my sump drain to feed the scrubber, since that water is "dirtier".
 
Last edited:
I think teeing off your return would work in your case, or at least, it's worth trying first. You can always by a pump and change the setup later if you think it's not working right.
 
I think teeing off your return would work in your case, or at least, it's worth trying first. You can always by a pump and change the setup later if you think it's not working right.

If thats the case then I will put an extra t in my manifold to feed a scrubber just in case, if I dont use it I can just ball valve it off.
 
Screen Break-in and General Cleaning Procedures

Screen Break-in and General Cleaning Procedures

There are questions that are routinely asked with respect to screen cleaning.

How often should I clean?
How much should I clean?
When & how should I clean a new screen?
How long is the break-in period?


So I put this together based on my experience and the interpreted experience of many others. Hopefully this will provide a more general guide to learning the answers to these questions.

When is a screen considered "mature" or "cured"?

In general, a screen is considered "mature" when algae fills in the holes on the screen. The best way to determine this is to scrape (do not scrub with a brush) the screen fully after 7 days of growth, and then very lightly rinse it. If algae remains in over 50% of the holes (preferably 75%), then I would consider the screen to be mature/cured.

In some cases, you can get a lot of thick, green growth in 10 days or less. This doesn't really mean that the screen is mature, but rather that your system conditions are very conducive to Algae Scrubber growth.

The following contains mostly information on the break-in period, but a good amount of it also applies to general maintenance:

1) Maintain a moderate flow

In general, the recommended minimum flow is around 35 GPH/in (GPH per inch of screen/slot width). Many people report an increase in growth when you increase the flow to a higher level. However, during the break-in period the algae isn't very strongly attached to the screen yet, and too much flow can actually slow or prevent the growth from attaching to the screen.

During the break-in period, you aren't going to be really doing a lot of filtering, so the goal not to get a lot of growth, just to get growth started. Therefore, this is the time when you can get away with less than 35 GPH/in of flow. I would not recommend going below 20 GPH/in, and only that low for the maybe the first week or two. After that, increase the flow up to 35 GPH/in over the course of a week or two.

After the break-in period, flow can be increased. Theoretically, there is no limit to the amount of flow you can provide, as long as it doesn't cause detachment. As a side note, you might have to increase lighting intensity when you increase flow (this is a relatively new concept)

2) Maintain a moderately intense lighting configuration

Just as too much flow can inhibit initial growth, so can too much light. The term "photo-inhibition" has been used in the past to describe this, but technically it is photo-saturation. When there is a lot of light, but not a lot of algae to absorb that light, you can end up with no growth at all. Some refer to this as a "hotspot". This can become evident when LED lighting is in use, but applies to CFLs and T5HO to some extent. It is difficult to quantify how much light is too much, because it depends on proximity, quantity of lamps/LEDs, wattage, etc.

The one example of a light source that is almost certain to saturate and cause a hotspot is the use of supplemental Royal Blue LEDs (usually within an array of 660nm Deep Red LEDs). If RBs are run at the same current as the DRs, they will burn a hotspot (which is why I run these at 1/2 current).

After the break-in period is complete and growth is consistently strong, lighting can be increased. The upper limit of lighting intensity is still somewhat unclear, and probably depends on a multitude of factors (flow, available nutrients, specifics of tank, etc)

3) Clean slot and top edge weekly.

Remove the screen weekly to clean the slot on the pipe and the top edge of the screen (that is inserted into the slot pipe). Make sure there is no algae left on these areas. This ensures that flow continues unobstructed.

Ideally, you want to always do this, or at least check the screen often for slot flow obstruction starting with about day 5 (this depends on your individual system, so day 5 is just a number I threw out there)

4) New recommendation: When possible, do not clean the screen in tap water during the break-in period; use saltwater instead.

Take a small amount of water out of your tank and place it in a shallow pan, just larger than your scrubber screen. Place the screen in this pan and give it a few gentle swishes. This should loosen any poorly attached algae. For the first few cleanings, this is usually all you need to do.

Additional information on this recommendation:

Rinsing in tap water kills most baby (microscopic) copepods that have populated the screen to eat algae, which can in turn cause detachment. It's also more convenient than rinsing in saltwater. However, some studies have shown that exposing saltwater algae to freshwater also causes the algal cells to ruture quickly. Also, some users have reported that growth 'recovers' faster after the scren is cleaned in saltwater.

Therefore, especially during the break-in period, I recommend only cleaning the screen in saltwater.

The exception to this recommendation kicks in when you start to see evidence of detachment caused by copepods. Such detachment is generally indicated by the appearance of circles on the screen where a clump of algae has detached or has been eaten away. This is actually a good sign of a diversity in your system, but it doesn't help your screen. In this case, after you do your saltwater cleaning, quickly rinse the screen in freshwater (tap water, RO, RODI, distilled, etc) and then put the system back into operation.

This recommendation applies to all phases of growth in general. Quickly exposing the screen to freshwater every so often is probably not a bad idea, but it should be quick (pods die from osmotic shock very quickly when exposed to freshwater). One way to do this is to shut off flow, pour RODI over the slot pipe, then turn the flow back on.

It should be noted that detachment can also occur without copepods. If your screen is not rough enough, or if you have too much flow during the break-in period, this can tear algae off the screen. This usually happens in 'chunks' as well, where you have a spot of excellent algae growth.

5) Let the screen grow!

You should not be doing any vigorous scrubbing or scraping of the screen during the start of the break-in period. Your goal is to leave as much algae on the screen in order to encourage additional growth and adhering of the base of algae to the screen. This takes time, and there is really not a lot you can do to speed up this adhesion of algae to the screen, aside from ensuring that the screen is very rough to start with.

If you start getting growth that is thick enough to cover up some of the holes, then rub the screen gently with your fingertips - usually, you can just 'swipe' your fingers across the screen and that will loosen a significant amount of algae

Typically, you will see growth occur in phases: diatoms (can sometimes look like dinoflagellate), then brown short algae, then green algae. Sometimes you will get bits of red or dark algae growing as well. It is best to just leave whatever growth you get alone.

The exception to this recommendation is when you get super-black growth. This doesn't seem to happen very often, but seems to occur in high-nutrient tanks, and may occur in tanks with a certain nitrate-to-phosphate ratio. This type of algae looks like a coating of oil, it is paper-thin, deep black under normal light, and sort of "flakes off" when you clean it. This should not be confused with dark brown hair algae, or long stringy diatom algae that easily rinses away.

This type of growth is usually just a temporary phase, but it can completely block all light to the screen, which prevents hair algae from getting the opportunity to attach. This is the only type of growth that should be cleaned off with a toothbrush, and even then, it should be cleaned gently enough so that any other type of growth is not removed. Screens growing the black oil algae should be cleaned as often as necessary to remove the oil algae and allow other more beneficial types of growth to attach.

6) New Recommendation: Clean as needed

The rule of thumb for a number of years was to clean your screen every 7 days. However, this is not always the case depending on the type of growth you are getting and your particular setup. Some can go longer, and some grow so thick and so fast that they need to be cleaned at 5 days.

Also, many use different harvesting techniques, such as cleaning one side at a time (alternating full-cleanings every other cleaning time), or not cleaning all the algae off of both sides (scrape off strips in a tic-tac-toe pattern on one side, "X" pattern on other, etc).

Not everyone gets super-thick growth that would block light to the base of the algae mat (screen), and some use more intense light sources that penetrate deeper, allowing the growth to get thicker before the base of growth starts to die. Flow can also be a factor as well.

Therefore, the time frame between cleanings is somewhat subjective, and is going to depend on many particulars of your system.

What I feel is a good gauge of how often you should clean is related to how much algae remains in the screen holes after you clean. If you scrape both sides and swish in your pan of saltwater and you end up with less than 50% of your screen holes filled in, you probably waited too long. If it's less than 25%, you definitely waited too long!!

Since you can only know this after you actually perform a full 2-sided cleaning, it's going to take some trial and error to determine this. The bottom line is that you will have to learn over time how your system grows algae, and adopt a maintenance program that matches your particular system.

I have one screen in particular that I let grow for 16 days or more before doing a 2 sided full cleaning, and there is still over 50% of the holes filled in - but again that was a specific system and I am very familiar with the growth cycle on that system. I would not let the growth go past 21 days without doing at least a partial cleaning (and probably 2 slot & top of screen cleanings)

7) Cleaning a mature screen

Once your screen is to the point at which I consider it mature, it will continue to develop growth that is progressively more strongly attached. You will eventually need to scrape the screen with a decent amount of pressure in order to remove growth.

This can usually be easily done using a standard plastic pot scraper, which you should be able to find for $2-3 at any kitchen supply store or your big box stores (Wal-mart, Target, Bed Bath & Beyond, etc). You can also use a serrated knife or a hacksaw blade, and some feel that this is better as it continues to keep the screen rough; I don't feel it is necessary to re-rough a screen if it is properly roughed up the first time. I personally only use the plastic scraper, it is much better than a credit card because it is not flexible.

You can do partial side cleanings, alternating side cleaning, etc, whatever you feel works best.

However, I would recommend a full both-side cleaning occasionally. If this means you clean both sides of one half of the screen, then the other half a week or so later, so be it. But you do want to make sure that the base of the algae mat, at the screen, maintains it's foothold on the screen in order to prevent detachment.
 
Off the wall question for folks who run an ATS - do you find that it acts at all as an evaporative cooler? In other words, does your tank runs lightly cooler with an ATS versus without? I'm in the process of building one and had the crazy notion to build in the capability to blow air thru the unit - looking at these hanging scrubbers just reminds me a lot of the swamp cooler my folks use in Arizona.
 
haha swamp cooler, second time I've heard that term in the last month. Microsoft is building a data center here in Des Moines and their consultant put in swamp coolers...not exactly what you do here in the midwest

But yeah, it can be a great evaporative cooler, definitely. If it hangs in the open, it's easy to just put a fan in the sump cabinet and off you go. If it is enclosed, it's a little trickier, but I've seen people put a hole in a lid (for a fully enclosed scrubber) and put a fan on that so that it circulates are and it works well
 
haha swamp cooler, second time I've heard that term in the last month. Microsoft is building a data center here in Des Moines and their consultant put in swamp coolers...not exactly what you do here in the Midwest.

Not a good idea! High humidity and sensitive electronics are not good bedfellows. Plus, swamp coolers only work when the ambient humidity is low - not the case in Des Moines I'd think?
 
It's not about the mixing of electronics and humidity. In the southwest, that's not an issue because the air is dry so swamp coolers are a good fit there. Not so much in Iowa. This week is a perfect example, 90 and probably just as humid
 
Not a good idea! High humidity and sensitive electronics are not good bedfellows. Plus, swamp coolers only work when the ambient humidity is low - not the case in Des Moines I'd think?

No matter what, a fish tank is going to create a very humid environment (indoors) without proper precautions. exhaust fan, dehumidifier, what-have-you. In many cases I'd assume a waterfall style scrubber fits the bill for cooling where a really expensive and roomy chiller wouldn't be practical.

There are questions that are routinely asked with respect to screen cleaning.

Thanks Floyd! that's good stuff. I'd never thought of the criss-cross or checkered screen cleanings... that's an interesting idea.
 
yep, here are a few pics of what I do

Before

027_zps158cb2ad.jpg


After

029_zpsc0c94b3e.jpg


028_zps4dfa3161.jpg
 
No matter what, a fish tank is going to create a very humid environment (indoors) without proper precautions. exhaust fan, dehumidifier, what-have-you. In many cases I'd assume a waterfall style scrubber fits the bill for cooling where a really expensive and roomy chiller

I do actually have to run a dehumidifier in my basement (where the sump is) independent of whether I have an active aquarium or not - so I can run an effective evaporative cooler. Am definately going to build in fan capability into my DIY scrubber.
 
I do actually have to run a dehumidifier in my basement (where the sump is) independent of whether I have an active aquarium or not - so I can run an effective evaporative cooler. Am definately going to build in fan capability into my DIY scrubber.

I may end up needing one.. but I'm in preparation to install an exhaust fan in my little fish room.

This is off-topic, but I was recently given a precision temperatur/humidity logger. Someone found it next to a parking lot here in town and didn't know what it was (looks like a giant thumb drive). So they gave it to my father-in-law who didn't know what it was, who he gave it me, figuring I would know what to do with it.

Turns out these things go for like $110 on amazon. You plug it into PC via USB, configure it, and then set it somewhere to log temp and humidity. A neat little device. Then you plug it back into your PC and trend your numbers.

I left it in my little fish room to test it out. I could see temp in the room go up and down a couple degrees when my MH lights come on and go off as expected. What surprised me, however, was the humidity. Maybe this is obvious to some, but as soon as lights come on, humidity drops like a rock. Once lights go out, the humidity increases logarithmically (?sp) up to a little less than 80%, until those lights come back on, and it drops again. I guess I'd never really thought about it, but I kind of would have expected the opposite - assuming higher evaporation rate during lights on period, causing raised humidity.
 
Back
Top