Algae Scrubber Basics

[salty joe]

Sure we can!

 

[travis32]

Well, on the phosphate debate. I pulled my GFO, I'm going to trade my remaining GFO for corals.

So, I like the analogy that nitrates are required to have the scrubber remove phosphates. So essentially if a clean system (as in light fish bio load, good water quality, good bacteria cultures) Then there's a possibility that phosphate removal would be limited by the lack of nitrates?

I've been feeding a lot heavier would should be contributing a lot of phosphates and a lot of nitrates and I've doubled my fish bioload, which isn't saying much as I'm up to 7 fish in a 125g. I noticed the increased skimmate in my skimmer and increased growth on the scrubber when I increased the number of fish and started feeding heavier.

Also, will the ATS help in removing bryopsis?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

As long as you're feeding the tank, you should not have limited N and P. Use a good quality food, I use a DIY version of Rod's Food.

Bryopsis is algae and it will get out-competed.

 

[klviper]

Wow, I don't see that kinda of growth at all and I'm on my second month. I was lucky to have some slime algae to scrape off this past week. I keep hoping for more growth each week. But the Hair algae in the display appears to be stunted... Not neccessarily dieing, but not growing rapidly either. However, the glass fills in with algae pretty fast...

I can scrape it and within 24-48 hours it's hard to see through the glass from all the film algae growing on the glass.

After week one I took some turf algae that was growing on a koralia pump wire in my refuge and smeared it across the panels. I don't know if it helped but I figured it wouldn't hurt

 

[JJ Ocean]

The largest I have found is about 11x17 or 12x18 I think, found that at either Michaels or Jo-Anne Fabrics.

The o-rings you can find at Ace Hardware, I found that they have the best selection of all kinds of sizes and types of o-rings. I personally like this one instead of an o-ring

I think I got it for 75 cents or something

Thanks Floyd & Rich on the source for the o-rings & screen. O-rings are in hand ($0.59) and screen is being shipped (7 sheets of 12"x18" for $1.60). Cheapest parts of the whole build!

My design will be for a 23”x16” screen with 6 24” T5 HO – 3 on each side. I’ve got 330g of SW in that system and plan the scrubber to augment my existing skimmer and refugium. Getting some HA in the display and I don't want to cut feeding. It will look similar to Floyd’s later designs … black acrylic “dry box” with a removable center “wet box”. The design will have pretty tight tolerances with lids to limit light escape. My plan is to run the photo period of the scrubber reverse to the DT to help limit Ph drop at night. There are other tanks in my fish room that I don’t want “lighted” in the middle of the night. Due to the tight tolerances I plan to also mount small fans to exhaust heat out of each side of the dry box.

I don’t expect to start construction until this weekend … I’ll post pics when I’m done.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Do yourself a favor and skip the 2-box design, unless you plan to incorporate a top cross-brace. My box is bowing outward about 1" overall and the weld seams that connect the front/back to the sides are slowly peeling apart because of it. You definitely need to cross brace an open top box. Think of it like external eurobracing. Mine is space limited , but if I had to do it over again I would make the outer box shorter and the inner box would then have the brace along the top edge. Too late to do it now, I would have to remove the whole filter system to trim, clamp, weld, and sit for a week to make sure the bond held. I'm going to just re-build the thing the way I should have now that I know so much more about the pitfalls of building acrylic boxes (after the 2nd try!!!)

Good thing to learn these early on. I currently have 6 projects to build scrubbers for, and I won't have to build those twice now.

EDIT: Make that 7. I'm going to do a 225 FW Cichlid Tank scrubber too.

 

[JJ Ocean]

Based on my setup, the scrubber will be up real high "“ 20" from the ceiling. Having the 2 box design makes it a lot easier for cleaning the clear sides and moving the screen to the utility sink for harvesting. I hear you on the cross brace on the top of the wet box "“ thanks for your feedback. I'll adjust the plan to put a ¾" strip of acrylic along the full length top of each side of the wet box "“ bonding the brace with the side and the end at the corner. That would still leave the middle open to slide out the screen. Do you think that would mitigate the issue or do you feel there were other design "œopportunities"?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

If you do like I designed, the outer box holds shape quite well. One side is closed all the way up to the to of the inner box, the other side is only closed for the bottom couple inches. This helps prevent the frame from bowing outward was the original thought, but a shorter brace on then end would have probably done just as well. If it's not in constant contact with water, it won't bow. If you wanted to leave it completely open so you could slide the box out without lifting at all, then that might be of concern. If you are OK with it, post your plans if you have any sketched up and I can look it over.

 

[bshumake]

Do yourself a favor and skip the 2-box design, unless you plan to incorporate a top cross-brace.

I had the same idea! I looked at some of the designs here and wasn't happy with the "drip" factor associated with them. I drew up my plans last night and hope to build my prototype in the next few months. The external box I planned will be more or less mounted on the sump, while the "reaction chamber" will be self contained and removable with only the lower bulkhead being any source of drippage. The reaction chamber will basically mount into the light cage via the union at the intake and an o-ring set into a pipe that will fit down into the bulkhead.

 

[slow_leak]

The problem with running GFO is that it completely limits phosphate. With the ATS, one photon of light breaks down one molecule of Nitrate and one molecule of Phosphate, and creates one Chlorophyll. This is simplified but you get the idea. If you have no phosphate, then the algae growth is phosphate limited, and you may still end up with some nitrates in the tank because it cannot take them up without phosphate present.

If you're going to run GFO and and Algae Scrubber, then you need to

1) put the algae scrubber first
2) reduce the flow on the GFO to very, very low

Let the scrubber do the bulk of the work. Think of the GFO as your secondary filter, not the other way around. If for some reason the Algae Scrubber doesn't take it all the way down (maybe you over fed or you kid dumped a bunch of food in the tank, or you had a water quality issue like I did) then you have a secondary means of lowering your phosphate. It also acts as a primary means to buffer it down to minimal, while not completely removing it. The algae provides a vast array of nutrients that corals thrive on, so you want it growing and filtering and self-dosing.

I have been running algae scrubber since September. It went through several phases that I observed.

A period of time I fed heavily while algae subsided to point that rocks would be bare or coraline. Shorty after that cyano would grow in high flow tank. My assumption is the tank is nitrate limited.

I now raise nitrates 0.05 ppm in tank per day with an Eheim Lquid doser using calcium nitrate solution. I also dose mixture of 5 ml ZV Coral snow (Koalin maybe) and Microbe-Lift Special blend. I alternate that with teasppon of Kalk and RO water. I use 2 part with Soda normally.

I suspect tank was now nitrate limited. As I still have 0 to <0.25 ppm Nitrate by Lamotte cyano has retreated back. Kalk was used to ensure I did not misidentify cyano as dinoflagellates.

I agree this is an easy system but long term care needs some consideration. All SPS have done great over last 6 months with one Branching red pavona with some receeding tips. I suspect it favors higher nutrient tanks. I had an outbreak of large tan feather dusters in sand only and small white ones on rocks. The white ones have since vanished again which is OK.

If this method appeared not to work I would have tried 0.005 ppm of phosphate addition and waited 2 months.

 

[bshumake]

forgot to add that the reaction chamber will be eurobraced and fit flush to the top of the light cage. Essentally, removal of the reaction chamber will be unscrewing the union, lifting up on the bulkhead end about 1 inch, and then sliding the chamber out.

 

[scott26]

Okay I want to jump in on this I have a newish 2 month old 90 gallon aquarium with a 40 gallon sump it runs at about 115 gallon system volume. My plan is to have the ATS above the now fuge area and just add what is needed.

Right now the plan is to use my maintenance port as the feed supply and just get some PVC to make the scrubber. I already have one 23w bulb 2700k rating and the screen just need to get the rest of the materials. Any tips?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Read my summary post #1035/1036 for starters. Use the tank volume for sizing (90, don't include the sump volume unless is has a significant bioload)

 

[JJ Ocean]

Here’s some rough drawings of the design (not to scale). I’m doing it myself, so I didn’t spec it that clear on paper. Overall, the wet box will slide in flush into the middle of the dry box. Two 1” bulkhead drains will protrude from the bottom of the wet box. Two matching holes that are slightly larger will be cut through the dry box and plywood stand below it. The wet box will “seat” through the dry box holes and position within the center of 1.5” pvc drains that are mounted tightly underneath the plywood stand floor. There are no screwed in connections between the wet box bulkhead and pvc drain. That drain ultimately travels down into my sump’s filter sock area. Yes, I will get some salt creep from time to time at the bulkhead/pvc connection, but it is in my fish room (unfinished) and is similar to how I “seat” my clown grow out tanks (i.e. issue I’m willing to deal with given ease of disconnect and cleaning).

Anyway, here are the crude drawings. If you have any input, please feel free to share your comments. Most of the acrylic is already cut, so there is some limits to my modifications. BTW - I incorporated the bracing at the top of the wet box per your experience. 3/8" clear acrylic would solve the issue as well. Thanks again!

 

[scott26]

I keep my used bulbs in a box to be used in lamps around the house, etc...

You must have a lot of unused bulbs since each one lasts about 10 years! Garage sale time!

 

[redneckgearhead]

You must have a lot of unused bulbs since each one lasts about 10 years! Garage sale time!

What kind of bulb are you using? 10 years? Mine don't last more than about a year!

 

[scott26]

With my tank still going through its start up cycle the rocks are semi covered in red turf algae and also still have white spots on them do you think that adding a scrubber would take away from the rest of the rock being covered in algae. Since I used base rock to start it is pretty white.

 

[bshumake]

So here we are at week 2. After adding another CF to the screen I’m seeing a significant change in algae color. At the bottom where I had little growth I now have some deep green algae growing. My initial growth has gotten thicker and picked up some yellow color. I have noticed that the algae in my display is changing colors also. Nothing drastic, but it seems to be “faded.” No noticeable change in volume.
[/SIZE][/FONT][URL="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a280/bshumake/2011-04-27_07-42-31_630.jpg%5b/IMG"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a280/bshumake/2011-04-27_07-42-31_630.jpg[/IMG[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/URL][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]See all the yellow and brown on that screen. You can see the deeper green algae on the lower left.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][IMG][/SIZE][/FONT][URL="http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a280/bshumake/2011-04-27_07-42-21_764.jpg%5b/IMG"][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a280/bshumake/2011-04-27_07-42-21_764.jpg[/IMG[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/URL][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]I cleaned the screen by scratching it with my fingertips. That left a considerable amount of algae behind so I took a toothbrush to it to knock it down a little more. All that did was remove some of the yellow algae. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]I accidentally cut my screen opening a little on the short side so friction alone is keeping it in place. If necessary I’ll use some zipties when the growth gets a little more dense. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Still no N or PO4 readings as I have yet to get a test kit. Hope to get one this weekend. [/FONT][/SIZE]

 

[bshumake]

 

[scott26]

Is there any disadvantage to using glass as a shield/housing for the ATS?