AlgaeFix Marine to control Hair Algae

[serval]

I have been watching this thread and admittedly, have basically no experience with marine algae yet, except for (the nearly impossible to eradicate) Lobophora. I've only had a reef tank for 9 mo's, so read with grains of salt.

But, given what I know about copper toxicity, I would only try this in a small test tank with a Derbesia covered rock; of course you would do it that way anyway.

I know this forum kind of panned the use of Seachem's Excel (which contains some aldehyde which may or may not be toxic), but if it were me, I would try this first (also in a test tank only). I have many years of planted tank experience and frequently use Excel to control FW green hair algae of various types and it usually works. FW tank people use more than the recommended amount to do this, sometimes 2x the rec. dose. However, one has to be very careful at these doses since it can kill FW shrimp (usually the fish seem unaffected IME). Bottom line, if I had Derbesia that I couldn't control any other way, I would experiment with Excel in a separate tank. It's a cheap fix if it works; I have no idea if it would work on SW algae, but it might. By the way, Excel is sold to the FW planted tank community as a carbon source to help grow the plants. Adding CO2 works better, but Excel can be used for low-carbon using systems. However, its algaecidal properties seem unrelated to its use as a carbon source. In other words, we don't think the higher plants are just outcompeting the algae with the addition of Excel.

 

[HighlandReefer]

Correct me if I am wrong.

The Seachem's Excel is a strong oxidizer, which would destroy cell membranes of many micro-organisms & coral epidermal cells. Possibly AF can do this too since it brakes holes into algae cell membranes but I am under the assumption that it does not do as much damage to coral membranes since there have been few negative effects. Once coral epidermal cell membranes are destroyed, then this leaves the symbiotic algae exposed to more oxidative damages. Then this would lead to bleaching of coral.

Fish have a slime layer protecting their epidermis from the oxidants. I would be very concerned about the effects of Seachem's Excel on coral FWIW. In fresh water aquariums you are dealing with advanced plants which have thicker more complicated epidermal layers than do coral and macroalgae.

 

[serval]

The Seachem's Excel is a strong oxidizer, which would destroy cell membranes of many micro-organisms & coral epidermal cells. Possibly AF can do this too since it brakes holes into algae cell membranes but I am under the assumption that it does not do as much damage to coral membranes since there have been few negative effects. Once coral epidermal cell membranes are destroyed, then this leaves the symbiotic algae exposed to more oxidative damages. Then this would lead to bleaching of coral.

I have emailed Seachem to double check this; you could be right Cliff. I'll let you know what they say.

 

[HighlandReefer]

Thanks, Please do.

 

[Oil_Fan]

I'm not sure how switching salt mixes can introduce an algae strain....???

I can't explain it. I tried Red Sea and a month later I'm fighting my first case of HA. I only used the one bucket and it was the only thing that had changed. I've heard other people here in Atlanta having similar issues with that salt. Maybe it's something combined in our water here. Not sure.

 

[Oil_Fan]

I hadn't thought about using AF & raising the mag. level. Certainly something as a last resort & removing anything valuable. It's worth a try. Let us know how it works for you.

I would definitely move any touchy corals out. When I did this, there were no corals in the tank yet, only 2 fish. I have no idea what a combination of high mag with AF do to corals or even inverts for that matter.

But I did get rid of my algae doing this and it what little does appear, my blue tang munches it up.

 

[HighlandReefer]

If my memory serves me correct, copper somehow disrupts the cell epidermal layer of algae, coral and invertebrates. AF also disrupts the epidermal layer of at least algae and possibly coral to some extent. How these two work together at one time, I have no idea. It could have a synergistic effect on both coral and algae. :hmm4:

 

[HighlandReefer]

It appears my memory was wrong regarding copper affecting the cell membrane of algae. (2007)
(In other words, they have no idea what causes copper toxicity to algae. :lol: )

Sensitivity of marine microalgae to copper : The effect of biotic factors on copper adsorption and toxicity
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=19142055

From it:

Microalgae are sensitive indicators of environmental change and, as the basis of most freshwater and marine ecosystems, are widely used in the assessment of risk and development of environmental regulations for metals. However, interspecies differences in sensitivity to metals are not well understood. The relationship between metal-algal cell binding and copper sensitivity of marine microalgae was investigated using a series of 72-h growth-rate inhibition bioassays and short-term (1-h) uptake studies. A range of marine algae from different taxonomic groups were screened to determine whether copper adsorption to the cell membrane was influenced by biotic factors, such as the ultrastructure of cell walls and cell size. Minutocellus polymorphus was the most sensitive species to copper and Dunaliella tertiolecta the least sensitive, with 72-h IC50 values (concentration to inhibit growth-rate by 50%) of 0.6 and 530 μg Cu/L, respectively. Copper solution-cell partition coefficients at equilibrium (Kd) were calculated for six species of algae on a per cell and surface area basis. The largest and smallest cells had the lowest and highest Kd values, respectively (on a surface area basis), with a general (non-linear) trend of decreasing Kd with increasing cell surface area (p=0.026), however, no relationship was found between Kd and copper sensitivity, nor cell size and copper sensitivity. Interspecies differences in copper sensitivity were not related to cell size, cell wall type, taxonomic group or Kd values. The differences in sensitivity may be due to differences in uptake rates across the plasma membrane, in internal binding mechanisms and/or detoxification mechanisms between the different microalgal species.

 

[serval]

Re: Seachem's Excel. I asked Seachem the questions we had above and this was their response (Cliff, you knew this already, didn't you!

Their response:Thank you for your inquiry. While many hobbyists claim to use the product for this purpose (killing green hair algae) in freshwater, it is not a suitable method for a reef aquarium. We tried this ourselves in our lab at varying dosages and found that it is not safe for reef inhabitants. Please let us know if we can assist further.

The parens are mine above. Anyway, scratch that idea.

 

[HighlandReefer]

:lol:

If they stated otherwise I would have had to call Randy in on this.

 

[iamwrasseman]

i have been fighting HA for quite some time with all sorts of methods and nothing completely worked for me . algae fix really helped and raised mag did too along with assorted tangs crabs and sea hare's . i bought a new 5 stage RO/DI unit from the filter guys about two months ago and started using it along with cutting back on my feedings drastically .then i cut three hours off my photo period ,down to 8 hrs a day .wow what a difference the HA is gone ,fish still alive and fat and my po4 is now almost undetectable. yes i use GFO ,skimmer,and carbon in my sump but nothing special .i was down to one weekly dose of algae fix and now i shall halt that also .i think we are missing the easiest solution here ,less nutrient and po4 seems to have diminished my HA .this could be a false hope as i am just ended my algae fix regimen a month ago and switched to weekly doses as i already stated but i mad a large effort to reduce the input of nutrient and po4 and that really seemed to be the end all ,i certainly hope ...........also i never skip a water change as i do have a large bio-load and was going two or three weeks without water changes .now its 25% every week with 0tds water and much less food ,i will see if that keeps the HA gone for good ,ha ha or at least under control?

 

[serval]

iamwrasseman,
When you changed your photoperiod, was that permanent? And, was that with MHs plus T5s or all fluorescents (or other)? I only run the MH on my tank 6-7 hrs/day. The actinics run for 12 hrs. Just wondering if you do something different. From my experience with FW planted, the amount and length of light on the tank has sooo much to do with algae growth! The first step is always cut down on photoperiod and raise the lights imho. Naturally, one has to take great care with our photosensitive corals; they are much more pricey than FW plants!

 

[iamwrasseman]

i use T5s 4 bulb units and was running 12 hrs a day ,first and last two hrs were actinic only .now i am running 8 hrs a day first and last two hrs actinic .the main 14k bulbs are on for 4 hrs only per day . i have lps corals mostly so i think they will also be happy with that ,time will tell .i also ha cut my HM only tank down to 7 hrs a day . my house is generally lit during the day by daylight only and my fish have been coming out before the tank lights come on . my wrasses burrow at night so my tanks look completely empty when they are sleeping .

 

[HighlandReefer]

iamwrasseman,

I agree 100% with your assessment about better husbandry.

I would not try AF until you have implemented all the proper husbandry techniques. Too many hobbyists skimp on this important aspect.

 

[redfishsc]

I can't explain it. I tried Red Sea and a month later I'm fighting my first case of HA. I only used the one bucket and it was the only thing that had changed. I've heard other people here in Atlanta having similar issues with that salt. Maybe it's something combined in our water here. Not sure.

Hopefully the RO/DI would remove stuff from your water....

It's possible that phosphates and/or nitrates came in via the new salt. Have you tried testing the phosphate levels of a fresh batch of salt water using a good quality low range phosphate kit (ie, don't use the API, it's way too high-range).

 

[redfishsc]

Oh, and an update on the bryopsis lump I soaked in Vitamin C yesterday. No effect on either zoanthids or bryopsis.


I think I'll try soaking them in ammonium perchlorate while smoking a Marlboro next:furious:

 

[CWP]

Added second dose yesterday, and I am already seeing results. Unfortunately, I am making this thread useless with no pics. Sorry.

 

[iamwrasseman]

information is not worthless ,we all can learn from others experiences

 

[crisisback]

Thanks for all the great info. I've been battling this dictyota algae for a while, and it just kept spreading. It has been such a pain, and from a lot of the horror stories I read about it, it's really hard to get rid of. So I decided to try algae fix marine. I'm on my fourth dose.

So far, no livestock losses, and no loss of color has been noted in my LPS and SPS. The only coral reaction I've seen is with my favias. They shrink for a few hours after I put the algaefix in. All fish and inverts doing well.

The good:
The dictyota is almost all gone. After the second dose, white spots started appearing on the algae. The algae fades and breaks away from the rock.
It has seemed to kill almost all of the algae in my tank. I haven't noticed any change in the little green bubble algae I have though.
The bad:
It killed my Neomeris sp. algae. It was pretty cool looking. My turbo snails are running out of food and are probably going to starve soon, so they may need to find a new home.

I'll be posting some progress pics later.

 

[HighlandReefer]

crisisback,

Glad to hear that AF works for your dictyota. Looking foward for results and pics.

Some background I found interesting about dictyota:

http://www.algaebase.org/search/genus/detail/?genus_id=51

From it:

Dictyota J.V. Lamouroux, 1809: 38

Classification:
Empire Eukaryota
Kingdom Chromista
Subkingdom Chromobiota
Infrakingdom Heterokonta
Phylum Heterokontophyta
Class Phaeophyceae
Order Dictyotales
Family Dictyotaceae
Tribe Dictyoteae

Taxonomy

Holotype species: Dictyota dichotoma (Hudson) J.V. Lamouroux

Original publication: Lamouroux, J.V.F. (1809). Exposition des charactères du genre Dictyota, et tableu des espèces qu'il referme. Journal de Botanique (Desvaux) 2: 38-44.

Taxonomic status: currently recognized as a distinct genus.

Description: Thallus flattened, ribbon-like, erect or prostrate, with smooth, dentate, crenulate or ciliate margins; attachment by basal rhizoids or marginal rhizoidal processes scattered along the edges of the thallus or restricted to the base, stoloniferous holdfasts present or absent; branching dichotomous, anisotomous or alternate, rarely falcate; apices obtuse, rounded, apiculate or acute; phaeophycean hairs and superficial proliferations present or absent; thallus differentiated into a cortex and a medulla, the relative number of layers variable. Sporangia isolated, grouped in sori or surrounding a central hair tuft, lacking a conspicuous involucrum of sterile cells, subtended by a single stalk cell. Antheridia subtended by a single stalk cell, arranged in sori, surrounded by hyaline, unicellular paraphyses. Oogonia subtended by a stalk cell, arranged in sori.

Comments: Cosmopolitan distribution.

NCBI Nucleotide Sequences As of 2 June 2009, nucleotide sequence data are available at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Genbank for 352 samples identified as Dictyota. Taxonomic identifications of these samples to genus (or species) levels unaccompanied by explicit indication of voucher specimens may not be verifiable on morphological/anatomical grounds and consequently be of little or no taxonomic value, as noted by Harvey et al. 2009.