Lately i've been going through alk like crazy and its been swinging all over the place. I know PH will swing as lights come on and off, corals stop photoshynthasizing and what not. But is alk supposed to swing daily like PH does? For example. yesterday morning. 10.4dkh. this morning. 7.8dkh. a few weeks ago I had my alk drop to 5dkh. unexpectedly so I've been measuring daily and trying to stay on top of everything and get it all dialed in. My first focus was getting the magnesium back up and stable. Finally got that back up and leveled out. I haven't needed to dose calcium cause its stayed pretty stable aroud 375 give or take. I know magnesium will have a lot to do with the buffering ability of alk and calcium. I am assuming alk shouldn't be swinging. Am I going to need to dose the crap out of sodium carbonate/bicarbonate to maintain a stable alk on a daily basis? I feel like I'm missing some piece of the puzzle here.
alk swings ****ing off the corals and me
- Thread starter toddmau5
- Start date
sirrealism
New member
I will be watching this as I go through the same thing with my 40b. Seems i just cant add enough.
rogergolf66
im an addict lol
Have u been opening your windows in your house with the nice weather? If so the ph in your tank will tend to be higher. This rise in ph makes percipatation on pump and calcification easer for coral. It will also increase coraline algea growth and that uses a lot of alk. Hense your tank demand for alk will go up very fast. This is all if u have been opening the house up on these cool day. The last months or so. This happens to me every year but I have only figured out why it happen in the last 2 years. I keep really good logs that's how I was able to come up with why it happens to me. I actually posted a warning to everyone about 3 weeks ago 
I will try and find the article that randy holmes talks about ph rise and alk consumption.
I had to bump up my calcium reactor to Handel the new demand.
Hope that's the answer for you.
Roger
I will try and find the article that randy holmes talks about ph rise and alk consumption.
I had to bump up my calcium reactor to Handel the new demand.
Hope that's the answer for you.
Roger
Lol honestly no. I love the ac too much. Your last post about the windows being opened and making sure you check ph is what reminded me I should probably test. That was the day I noticed the alk had dropped to 5. I'll have to check the chart again when I get home but it goes up and down day to day without dosing. Which is what has me scratching my headHave u been opening your windows in your house with the nice weather? If so the ph in your tank will tend to be higher. This rise in ph makes percipatation on pump and calcification easer for coral. It will also increase coraline algea growth and that uses a lot of alk. Hense your tank demand for alk will go up very fast. This is all if u have been opening the house up on these cool day. The last months or so. This happens to me every year but I have only figured out why it happen in the last 2 years. I keep really good logs that's how I was able to come up with why it happens to me. I actually posted a warning to everyone about 3 weeks ago
I will try and find the article that randy holmes talks about ph rise and alk consumption.
I had to bump up my calcium reactor to Handel the new demand.
Hope that's the answer for you.
Roger
My understanding is you should always dose balanced. When my tank started showing Alk swings I was advised to dose just Alk, but after reading Randy's article below I dosed balanced and my calcium only went up a little before plateauing and my Alk rose until it plateaued as well. Now they both remain stable.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/11/chemistry#section-6
ChadRaay86
New member
Depends on what you have, but yes you will need to dose daily. As your coral gets happy and grows your alk demands will jump. Coraline, Clams, bacteria consumption, use of a phosphate controller, and a multitude of other factors will affect your alk usage; but the bottom line is that you will need to have some sort of system that doses multiple times a day. A calcium reactor is where you want to be, but that might not be cost effective.
Man that's gonna get pricey. It's diving down 3-4pts a day but the odd part is when it starts jumping back up without anything being dosed. I have a reactor I was just waiting to move up to the big tank before I installed it. I just need to get a regulator for it and then it's ready to go. I guess I can hook it up and have it sit in the closet lol
ChadRaay86
New member
It's pricey, but its definitely the way to go. Like I said though, its good to track down the problem, I had 4 clams and a 300 gallon tank and I would always go through about 3 gallons of alk a month.
What is your stocking like, tank size, phosphate removal product, any other supplements? Including coral food. If something is sucking alkalinity out at a rate you can't control it seems like something is awry.
Ted_C
Active member
it sounded from his original post that he doesn't have equal demand for Ca and Alk.
If that's the case - the opinions of other aquarists are here: http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f77/alkalinity-dropping-but-ca-stays-up-213199.html
if the above gets stripped its from: the reef tank / Think Tank / Alkalinity dropping, but Ca stays up.
And that was spurned from a conversation here on RC:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2315896
Everything everyone else is recommending pertaining to growth - you should see equal demand for Calcium with Alkalinity - i.e. your calcium should be dropping alongside the alkalinity.
Edit: Cuzza is right - if your going to dose via the 2 part method - they should always be dosed together - throughout the day. I had my Ca come on for 1.5 minutes - wait 14.5 minutes - dose my Alk for 1.5 minutes - wait 14.5 minutes - dose my Mg for 30 seconds - then the whole cycle started again - every hour (using Neptune + BRS dosers + BRS Chemicals).
If that's the case - the opinions of other aquarists are here: http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f77/alkalinity-dropping-but-ca-stays-up-213199.html
if the above gets stripped its from: the reef tank / Think Tank / Alkalinity dropping, but Ca stays up.
And that was spurned from a conversation here on RC:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2315896
Everything everyone else is recommending pertaining to growth - you should see equal demand for Calcium with Alkalinity - i.e. your calcium should be dropping alongside the alkalinity.
Edit: Cuzza is right - if your going to dose via the 2 part method - they should always be dosed together - throughout the day. I had my Ca come on for 1.5 minutes - wait 14.5 minutes - dose my Alk for 1.5 minutes - wait 14.5 minutes - dose my Mg for 30 seconds - then the whole cycle started again - every hour (using Neptune + BRS dosers + BRS Chemicals).
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Ook, so update. I have not dosed anythinng since the 19th which was some magnesium to get the level back up to 1450, which is where i have always kept it since the cheato sucks it dry. I stopped dosing and tested at the end of the night on the 19th and my magnesium was at 1360
here is whats been going on. keep in mind I have not dosed any calcium or alk. I wanted to get my magnesium dialed in and steady, i know magnesium is a key buffer for calcium and alk.
http://www.aquaticlog.com/showcase/parameter?kind=Magnesium&aquariumId=4791
http://www.aquaticlog.com/showcase/parameter?kind=Calcium&aquariumId=4791
http://www.aquaticlog.com/showcase/parameter?kind=Alkalinity&aquariumId=4791
as you can see my alk has been going crazy. I did a big water change after the 15th which brought it back up, but then it falls and climbs on its on.
Im not a total noob. I understand there is a correlation between calcium and alk (calcium chloride and sodium carbonate/bicarbonate) alk isnt actually a thing, its a measurement. I understand that the correlation between calcium and alk is inverse which is why they tell you to dose 2 parts, as you increase calcium your alkalinity falls. so you must dose the same about of alk to make sure it stays stable. (at least this is my understanding, maybe i need to go back to chemistry 101) I was trying to figure out what the correlation between magnesium and the alk would be to see if the magnesium alone would cure my alk drop/fluctuations or if I do in fact need to start dosing alk. so far I cant see any correlation between magnesium and alk, at least no measurable relation. Now im going to continue to monitor the tank twice a day and try to keep the magnesium around 1400 and see what does what where. As far as i have been able to measure, ive never really been using any calcium.
im going to start looking into a regulator and getting the reactor plumbed in as i feel this will be a much more stable means of dosing, and hopefully it will help my issue.
Still not exactly sure why the alk falls, then rises, then falls, and rises again.
here is whats been going on. keep in mind I have not dosed any calcium or alk. I wanted to get my magnesium dialed in and steady, i know magnesium is a key buffer for calcium and alk.
http://www.aquaticlog.com/showcase/parameter?kind=Magnesium&aquariumId=4791
http://www.aquaticlog.com/showcase/parameter?kind=Calcium&aquariumId=4791
http://www.aquaticlog.com/showcase/parameter?kind=Alkalinity&aquariumId=4791
as you can see my alk has been going crazy. I did a big water change after the 15th which brought it back up, but then it falls and climbs on its on.
Im not a total noob. I understand there is a correlation between calcium and alk (calcium chloride and sodium carbonate/bicarbonate) alk isnt actually a thing, its a measurement. I understand that the correlation between calcium and alk is inverse which is why they tell you to dose 2 parts, as you increase calcium your alkalinity falls. so you must dose the same about of alk to make sure it stays stable. (at least this is my understanding, maybe i need to go back to chemistry 101) I was trying to figure out what the correlation between magnesium and the alk would be to see if the magnesium alone would cure my alk drop/fluctuations or if I do in fact need to start dosing alk. so far I cant see any correlation between magnesium and alk, at least no measurable relation. Now im going to continue to monitor the tank twice a day and try to keep the magnesium around 1400 and see what does what where. As far as i have been able to measure, ive never really been using any calcium.
im going to start looking into a regulator and getting the reactor plumbed in as i feel this will be a much more stable means of dosing, and hopefully it will help my issue.
Still not exactly sure why the alk falls, then rises, then falls, and rises again.
rogergolf66
im an addict lol
Have u considered it's the test kits?
snake1
Premium Member
I don't understand how cheato sucks magnesium dry I grow almost a five gallon buckets worth of cheato every other month and I never add magnesium but maybe a small dose every few months...also I have way better results keeping my alk where I need to and my cal the same when I dose evenly that makes things way out of wack for me ....so to keep my tank balanced I dose 125ml of alk a day and 110 cal a day and it keeps everything good if I put the calcium up to 125 to match the alk it raises it way to far I last found it at 490-500 using two test kits salifert....so I bumped it down to keep it around 450....I don't know why this works for me but after many of logs and testing it does I have heard many times to dose equal parts but it never worked for me....
I would just setup the calcium reactor...
I would just setup the calcium reactor...
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Well this will be the 3rd set of test kits. They all correspond Pretty well, except for the api alk kit. Which just constantly says I'm at 11 no matter what
You may be right. This was just something I was told by an old reefer who first have me my cheato. it seemed to be true since my magnesium would disappear long before I started loading up on corals and it was just the cheato fish and some random zoas. But now I can't seem to find any supporting evidence, it made sense at the time
snake1
Premium Member
The alk problems.... I kept fighting my levels when dosing evenly I have heard some people with this problem and they dose what they need to compensate ....I'm sure its not the right way and some will frown but it keeps my tank stable....I'm about to setup a calcium reactor so I will be learning a whole new animal....maybe just go with the calcium reactor they say its a better method and healthier for the animals..goodluck
Chris,
I grow more than 5 gallon buckets per month and I never had mag depletion like that? I use ESV 2 part and dose Mag once every 2 weeks enough to adjust from 1250 to 1350. If I remember I tested your water with my salifert kit and it was at 7dkh at that time. If you need to test all feel free to bring water I would be happy to test all.
Regards,
Z
I grow more than 5 gallon buckets per month and I never had mag depletion like that? I use ESV 2 part and dose Mag once every 2 weeks enough to adjust from 1250 to 1350. If I remember I tested your water with my salifert kit and it was at 7dkh at that time. If you need to test all feel free to bring water I would be happy to test all.
Regards,
Z
