alkalinity question?

[scaryperson27]

if your SPS are turning brown, then you have a overpopulation of Zooxanthellae. This provides too much oxygen to the coral.

How is the coral dying? Where is the skin breaking apart first? If on the tips, that would be a result of too muck alk. At the base would be a result of not enough flow; the coral is getting too big and is restricting flow to itself.

Also, the Enter key is your friend.

 

[adambirk]

29 reef i agree totally about my system not being ideal. and as stated i am looking for a tank right now to upgrade to. when i was starting out had alot of bad advice from a lfs that i used to go to and have learned as i go. now that i have been using this web site and all the advice and knowledge of others and my past mistakes i know exactly how my new tank will be set up and what i will be keeping. so untill i find the tank i want i am forced to try and make what i have as good as i can for the corals in it. i was wondering about the vodka and sugar the only reason i went to carbon dosing was because i was told by multiple reefers that having nitrates af 10ppm or less would cause sps to lose color and nitrates should be undetectible. scaryperson27 the two colonys that have the rtn is from the base up but they are on the outside of the colony and there is a ton of flow on them. so i am positive it is not a flow issue unless too much flow could be the cause of this.

there i used the enter key anyway what causes an overpopulation of zooxanthellae? i thought it was insufficiant lighting? which i dont think i have. 2 250watt halides just switched to xm 20ks today was running reflux 20ks with 2 54watt t5 atinic+ also as stated before i have 50 times turnover in my tank and all sps are in upper portion of tank so they all get great flow.

i have a terrible camera but i am going to try and get some pics of what i am talking about if they will come out ok. camera is probably only as good as a cell phone camera so i will see what i can get. other than that what else?

 

[kaskiles]

I think it sounds like you have a really nice system. Just to summarize:
Acros: no color (browning), slow growth, low polyp extension, potential RTN (base up)
: one unidentified colony slow growing but good color (what color?)
Clam: Blue Maxima Good
Montis: Good
Softies: Good
Green BTAs: Good
Tank: 90 gallons, not RR (reef ready) (sump on current system?)
Parameters: in range, history of alk swings
Lighting: 2 - 250W 20kK reflux SE 8hrs/day (6 months old), 54W Actinic T5HO 10hrs/day
Flow: 2 HydorKor4's, 1 HydorKor3, 1 HydorKor2, canister return
Nutrient Control: WC 20 gal/every other week (total system volume?)
: Vodka & Sugar doser
: carbon & GFO in Canister Fluval fx5, change every 2 weeks
Alk/Ca Supp: 2 part doser
Skimmer: octo bh300 dual
Pests: None visible (using Macro lens?), possible hairy legged crab...

One thing I noticed this time through was the Sugar dosing. You may want to try going to just Vodka and stop the Sugar, I remember reading about issues with Sugar in the Chemistry forum. Anyway, I think just leave the current vodka dose and cut the sugar completely... I'm obviously just grasping at straws here, so please monitor your nutrient levels as you do this

 

[scaryperson27]

Too many Zooxanthellae would be the result of high levels of Phosphates, and/or nitrates in the tank. Other nutrients can cause it to overpopulate too. zooxanthellae provide amino acids surgars oxygen ect to the coral. In return, the coral gives the zooxanthellae, shelter, nutrients (mostly wastes such as nitrogen and phosphorus) and a constant supply of carbon dioxide required for the zooxanthella's photosynthesis.

A coral can be fed by It's symbiont through Nitrates and Phosphates, however it is better if you feed the corals with a food that the polyps can ingest directly. This will supply nutrients directly to the coral instead of supplying nurishment to the Zooxanthellae and then from the zooxanthellae to the coral. This also inhibits Zooxanthellae more; less golden brown color in the coral shading the florescent proteins.

Carbon dosing is a fantastic idea to lower nutrients. So the ultimate goal is to limit nutrients and feed the coral polyps more. However, I'm wondering whether your skimmer will handle Vodka dosing. The dealers make that skimmer sound capable. Do you think it is up to the task?

I have owned Octopus skimmers before and can say they are good performers. I have a MSX-160 now which is the same (other than the pinwheel and color) to the octopus EXT-160, and quality is very good.

 

[kaskiles]

This might have been the thread I remember that links sugar dosing to corals browning:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=288714

I think it's the third post down where Randy says he tried sugar once, but his corals turned brown. I'm also pretty sure I've read some other reports of it causing browning, but using glucose instead of table sugar might be a good alternative. I believe the user, 'Genetics', might know more about this...

 

[adambirk]

yeah i have been dosing vodka for a little while and was at 5ml per day on my 90 and nitrates were hovering around five and would not get lower. i really didnt want to keep uping the dose so i just stayed at 5ml. my skimmer really started pulling nasty skim so i was impressed. then i read about dosing sugar and/or viniger so i went with sugar. only adding 1/4 teaspoon a day and in 4 days my nitrates were undetectible so that dose got cut in half and i have been dosing 1/8 tsp daily

i have never had any problems with cyno or bacteria blooms as i took my time getting to the 5 ml per day and to tell you the truth i have not noticed any difference in my corals than when my nitrates were 5 to 10ppm now maybe i would have if my alk was not swinging so i am getting that under control and will see what happens.

 

[Henry Bowman]

adam,

Since the coral metabolism is slow, I would make changes slowly whether going from sugar to vodka or vinegar ... I personaly like carbon (vodka) dosing. It can take months for a system to stabilize on a carbon dosing regimen. I.E. for the bacteria being fed to deplete all the excess nutrients in the system or take the nitrates down to 0.00.

Zeovit which is a carbon dosing (part of it is) indicates that phase 3 is usually reached between 6-8 months of running the system as it takes that long to deplete live rock of excess p04 and N03.

My .02 cents.

 

[adambirk]

henry bowman thanks i am going to stop the sugar dosing and just stick with the vodka. i have only been dosing sugar for week so i dont think i should experiance a massive dieoff of bacteria ( i hope)

also i think that i am going to start using the brightwells mb7 i have been doing alot of reading on this and from what i have read it seems to be a good product and almost everybody that uses it really seems to like it.

once again thanks to all of you for your help and suggestions i really appriciate it.