All fish placed in tank die

RRaider

New member
This is not my tank, it is being serviced by a friend who owns a fish store who I help with corals.

It's a 280 gallon tank. Snails and shrimp do fine. Any fish they add to this tank get cloudy eyes, then white blotches like they are losing their color and then die, most are very skinny as well. This usually happens in 10 days to 3wks. After questioning my friend I think starvation could be one possibility, but I'm not sure it would result in these symptoms. It seems the guy is paranoid about increasing the phosphates. He has been instructed to feed regularly. Also has a diamond back goby who is unaffected.
 
Check the water parameters. What are the nitrates running? I bet the goby is desensitized to really high nitrates over a long period of time and the new fish can not handle the shock. How often and how much water does this person change. What is the salinity? You should give us alot more info.
 
Malnourishment could very well be the case as the goby eats by sifting sand through it's mouth and the snails and shrimp scavenge for food -

Perhaps you could ease this fellow's mind and suggest installing a media reactor running Rowaphos or Brightwell Phosphat R to ensure that phosphates always remain at 0, no matter how much he feeds....
 
Salinity is good, water changes are done on a regular basis (this guy is loaded and spends the money to have his maint done). They are running 2 reactors with phos remover but algae has never been an issue. It is a fowlr = snails and cleaner shrimp.

I think copper residue would effect the shrimp and snails.
 
high nitrates rarely kill fish . are there any women that use sprays etc near tank ? what do they use to clean the glass ? most fish have been starved for weeks before they reach the lfs so they are weak and will be subseptable to disease . i would first run excess carbon for the possibilities of sprays etc . then all fish in the tank need to be treated in the tank for bacterial and fungal infections . what is going on with the ph ? are there large swings ,check and see . many fear electrical current but the fish have more resistance so that wont even effect them but you can check for stray voltage . the disease controll seems to be what you need to get a hold of . are the fish all coming from the same store ? that also could be an issue . are they very delicate fish ,if so try a hardy fish that is tank raised and see what happens .what is being done to properly acclimate the new fish ? copper residue may not be high enough to effect the inverts but that also wouldnt hurt the fish . what is the salinity of the lfs water ?you really need to leave the fish in the tank and treat for disease first and then get all the pperamiters correct then add a very hardy fish and see what happens . how may new fish have died in this tank over how long of time ? if you post an answer to most of my random questions that may give us some vital information to go on . also how long has the tank been up and running and has it cycled properly ? check for temp swings ,and could there be any hitch hikers that may be harrasing the newbies . many times you can find clues of preditors earl in the morning in the sandbed but the golby probably disturbes the paths they may make so it may be difficult to see .
 
Update

They had treated with Prazipro and some other things previously. Against my advice they treated the tank with copper. More fish were added and they lived about a month and then started dying in the same way. All tests check out good. He has a reef tank in the same room and it's doing great so I don't think it's cleaning chemicals or the like.

I'm going over there tomorrow with the owner of the fish store to help her investigate. I'll recheck all the water parameters. I'll check for stray voltage. I'll also get all the answers to these questions and go from there.
 
i don't see stray voltage as being an issue but please do keep us posted . have you checked the tank and sump to see if anything foreign may have fallen into it ?
 
Re: All fish placed in tank die

I haven't been over there, I just keep getting asked for advice. Problem is I'm more of a coral guy. I'm going over there tommorrow to check it out.


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Have all his fish been purchased from the same source? Are they treated there? I am wondering if they are going through multiple treatments (store vs affected tank).
 
high nitrates rarely kill fish . are there any women that use sprays etc near tank ? what do they use to clean the glass ?
Single guy with a 12yr old reef tank sitting in the same room, no problems with the reef tank so sprays etc are not likely

most fish have been starved for weeks before they reach the lfs so they are weak and will be subseptable to disease .

Last batch of fish we made sure were fed properly, not the problem.

i would first run excess carbon for the possibilities of sprays etc .

They are running carbon passively, they are ordering a dual reactor we will fill with carbon this week.

then all fish in the tank need to be treated in the tank for bacterial and fungal infections .

They have treated this tank and inhabitants several times, the last time was with copper


what is going on with the ph ? are there large swings ,check and see .

Haven't checked ph.

many fear electrical current but the fish have more resistance so that wont even effect them but you can check for stray voltage .

They didn't have any equipment to check for voltage and I didn't take mine over there but if there is current it's not enough for a human to feel it.

the disease controll seems to be what you need to get a hold of . are the fish all coming from the same store ? that also could be an issue . are they very delicate fish ,if so try a hardy fish that is tank raised and see what happens.



what is being done to properly acclimate the new fish ?

1 hr gradual acclimation.

copper residue may not be high enough to effect the inverts but that also wouldnt hurt the fish . what is the salinity of the lfs water ?

1.22, same as the tank.

you really need to leave the fish in the tank and treat for disease first and then get all the pperamiters correct then add a very hardy fish and see what happens . how may new fish have died in this tank over how long of time ?

Tank has been running a year, they have lost aprox 50 fish of all kinds.


if you post an answer to most of my random questions that may give us some vital information to go on . also how long has the tank been up and running and has it cycled properly ? check for temp swings ,and could there be any hitch hikers that may be harrasing the newbies . many times you can find clues of preditors earl in the morning in the sandbed but the golby probably disturbes the paths they may make so it may be difficult to see .

No sign of any predator. The fish all do well for 2-3 weeks and then they die. Usually they get a bit lethargic the day before. Only Foxface shows white blotches and cloudy eyes before dying. One thing I noticed is this is a large tank, 240 or 280 gallons and even though he has a sump and a built in corner overflow the water in the tank moves very very little, with lots of particles sitting on the top of the water. I'm wondering if at least part of the issue might be a lack of dissolved oxygen. We added a couple of Koralia 4's he had and installed them so that there is water movement across the top of the tank. I kind of doubt this is it but can't hurt. Oddly enough of the fish that haven't died in this last round there are three anthias, in my experience anthias are not very hardy.
 
This is not my tank, it is being serviced by a friend who owns a fish store who I help with corals.

It's a 280 gallon tank. Snails and shrimp do fine. Any fish they add to this tank get cloudy eyes, then white blotches like they are losing their color and then die, most are very skinny as well. This usually happens in 10 days to 3wks. After questioning my friend I think starvation could be one possibility, but I'm not sure it would result in these symptoms. It seems the guy is paranoid about increasing the phosphates. He has been instructed to feed regularly. Also has a diamond back goby who is unaffected.

There can be persistent virulent pathogenic bacteria.

Does the tank have a properly sized and set up UV?
 
No UV, however since I was there last Sat and had him add his power heads so that the water at the surface of the tank is moving no more fish have died. It's too early to know for sure but it's looking like that might have solved it. I've recommended a couple more power heads and adding a macro algae to the sump to help with the oxygen issue based on a study by Borneman in Reef Keeping magazine. According to his study photosynthesis is critical to oxygen levels much more than skimmers etc. In fact none of the tanks in his study were able to reach oxygen saturation or supersaturation without the presence of photosynthetic organisms. Anyway I've gotten off on a tangent here, I'll keep you all updated. If this isn't it we'll be looking to get a necropsy done on one of the fish so that we aren't just throwing money at the problem, though I'm having some issues locating anyone who does them.
 
"Snails and shrimp do fine" - this indicates that water quality or toxins in the water are not an issue, as categorically, these animals would be affected at least as easily as the fish, if not more so.

There are certainly cases where lack of surface agitation has caused high carbon dioxide levels in tanks (not always going hand in hand with low dissolved oxygen) have caused problems in tanks where the powerheads are run below the water, and there is no skimmer.

My thought is that, given the symptoms, the length of time it takes the fish to die, and not all fish being affected, that the culprit is a fluke - probably Neobendenia....

Jay
 
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