All my fish keep dieing

[wooden_reefer]

so one last question...should i just start over...again?

You do not need to do WC while the tank is fallow, but wait 12 weeks.

QT is a all or nothing process. One failure will negate all previous effort.

ALL fish must have been actively treated to eradicate ich for at least 8 weeks, I go 12 or more weeks and have not had ich for 30 years. Do not wait and see, treat actively.

Your QT medium must be cycled. Study on QT procedure, but the QT medium MUST be cycled deliberately. Do not rob bacteria from DT for use in QT.

 

[gbru316]

so one last question...should i just start over...again?

You haven't even really started.

drain, refill with new saltwater, cycle/fallow for 12 weeks.

Then, buy 1 fish, quarantine, then add. Repeat after a few weeks if all is well.

 

[JeffSauer]

You haven't even really started.

drain, refill with new saltwater, cycle/fallow for 12 weeks.

Then, buy 1 fish, quarantine, then add. Repeat after a few weeks if all is well.

sounds good, they say third time is the charm

 

[Fishmommy]

GL!



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[JeffSauer]

You do not need to do WC while the tank is fallow, but wait 12 weeks.

QT is a all or nothing process. One failure will negate all previous effort.

ALL fish must have been actively treated to eradicate ich for at least 8 weeks, I go 12 or more weeks and have not had ich for 30 years. Do not wait and see, treat actively.

Your QT medium must be cycled. Study on QT procedure, but the QT medium MUST be cycled deliberately. Do not rob bacteria from DT for use in QT.

So what do you mean? When i buy a fish, should i fill the QT with new salt water (non-cycled and never been used) and drip acclimate and insert fish after a little bit? I have my QT tank in a closet so there's no lighting.

 

[Ostara]

That's the thing...my last ich problem killed "everything" in my tank. So i gave my inverts to a buddy and left my tank "lifeless" for 6 months. I even threw out my macro algae just to be sure. The only thing left in my tank was water, rock and sand (that's it) I kept all my levels good, did a 25% water change every Saturday and stirred the sand every other day just to make sure nothing was hiding. 6 whole months of doing that, a lifeless, dark tank running at 92°. That would have had to kill the ich right?

Yes, but then you threw in unquarantined damsels from your LFS, and then you bought more fish from them, did not quarantine, and threw them in too. That is how you brought the ich back. Every fish you buy needs to be treated for ich. Just because you did not see ich on the damsels in that time does not mean that they did not have it. Some fish may only have a mild infestation in their gills without visible spots on their body.

Remove all fish. Fallow your tank for a minimum of 9 weeks (not 8; this may not be enough with the life cycle of ich) and start over with fish that you have properly quarantined and treated.

 

[Deinonych]

So what do you mean? When i buy a fish, should i fill the QT with new salt water (non-cycled and never been used) and drip acclimate and insert fish after a little bit? I have my QT tank in a closet so there's no lighting.

You should cycle your QT first with new salt water. Once fully cycled and ready to receive fish, match your salinity to that of the LFS (bring a refractometer with you when acquiring the fish). Then acclimate quickly and release into the QT. Check out Sk8r's sticky in the newbie forum. A lot of LFS use low salinity in their tanks, making it difficult to impossible to acclimate to a "normal" salinity range (1.024-1.026) properly. By matching the QT's salinity to that of the LFS, you can slowly raise salinity over the next several days to weeks without stressing the fish.

 

[JeffSauer]

You should cycle your QT first with new salt water. Once fully cycled and ready to receive fish, match your salinity to that of the LFS (bring a refractometer with you when acquiring the fish). Then acclimate quickly and release into the QT. Check out Sk8r's sticky in the newbie forum. A lot of LFS use low salinity in their tanks, making it difficult to impossible to acclimate to a "normal" salinity range (1.024-1.026) properly. By matching the QT's salinity to that of the LFS, you can slowly raise salinity over the next several days to weeks without stressing the fish.

OK, so i actually set up another fish tank and let that one cycle as well for QT?

 

[wooden_reefer]

There is some food for thought.

If you QT your fish one at a time, how long will it take for you to QT all the fish for the tank? Each QT lasts eight weeks min, so 5 fish for the tank will take 40 weeks min? Will most of the bacteria after the cycle have died? Yes.

Yes, during the 40 weeks, what would the nitrification bacteria population look like if you do nothing to address the issue?

You do not need to change water.

Ten days before your first QT is about to finish, making sure that there is no livestock in DT, you can recharge your DT by having it process a pulse of ammmonia of say 3 ppm. After a week, the filter in DT will be again laden with nitrification bacteria.

What then? I suggest that you, at this point, split the filtration medium into two portions. One portion you leave in the DT to support the fish just introduced from the QT, the other portion in a separate container to be fed ammonia to support the next fish after the second QT, and so on.....

This way, similarly, you will never face the "new tank syndrome". Your fish will never be exposed to ammonia.

Do not accept "allowing the population of bacteria to catch up with bioload"; this is an obsolete concept. rather; you make sure that your filter is always ready and no "bacteria catching up with bioload" is ever needed; your fish is never exposed to ammonia.

 

[JeffSauer]

There is some food for thought.

If you QT your fish one at a time, how long will it take for your to QT all the fish for the tank? Each QT lasts eight weeks min, so 5 fish for the tank will take 40 weeks min? Will most of the bacteria after the cycel have died?

Yes, during the 40 weeks, what would the nitrification bacteria population look like if you do nothing to address the issue?

You do not need to change water.

Ten days before your first QT is about to finish, making sure that there is no livestock in DT, you can recharge your DT by having it process a pulse of ammmonia of say 3 ppm. After a week, the filter will be again laden with nitrification bacteria.

What then? I suggest that you, at this point, split the filtration medium into two portions. One portion you leave in the fish just introduced from the QT, the other portion in a separate container to be fed ammonia to support the next fish after the second QT.

This way, similarly, you will never face the "new tank syndrome". Your fish will never be exposed to ammonia.

Do not accept "allowing the population of bacteria to catch up with bioload" this is an obsolete concept. rather; you make sure that your filter is always ready and no bacteria "catching up with bioload" is ever needed.

makes sense

 

[Deinonych]

OK, so i actually set up another fish tank and let that one cycle as well for QT?

A QT is a separate tank that you use only for observation/treatment of new arrivals prior to introduction into the DT. It's a bare-bones setup: aquarium, heater, filter, powerhead and a couple of pieces of PVC for the fish to take shelter. If you haven't done so already, take a look at bnumair's sticky guide to setting up a QT at the top of this forum. Lots of useful information there.

 

[wooden_reefer]

So what do you mean? When i buy a fish, should i fill the QT with new salt water (non-cycled and never been used) and drip acclimate and insert fish after a little bit? I have my QT tank in a closet so there's no lighting.

You cycle the medium for QT just as you would for DT. You use the fishless method and pulses of artificial ammonia. You can rob from the DT but only the seeds but you still have to cycle. You do this about 5-6 weeks before buying any fish.

The only difference is that LR or any rock is not suitable for QT. Use crushed coral, polyester floss, bioballs, cermaic rings etc. You want to gear toward nitrification and you want your medium in QT to be portable, removable and put back in at your will easily.

 

[Spyderturbo007]

The only difference is that LR or any rock is not suitable for QT.

I've used a small piece of sacrificial live rock in all my QT tanks. Unless I want to vacuum up the stuff that collects on the bottom, I have never had a need to do a water change because of ammonia.

I fill the tank with new salt water, add a new air stone, new HOB filter material and one or two small pieces of live rock. No need to cycle, or do water changes every few days.

Rubble rock is cheap. Just throw a few pieces in your sump and pull one out when you want to QT.

 

[DUPioneers]

I've used a small piece of sacrificial live rock in all my QT tanks. Unless I want to vacuum up the stuff that collects on the bottom, I have never had a need to do a water change because of ammonia.

I fill the tank with new salt water, add a new air stone, new HOB filter material and one or two small pieces of live rock. No need to cycle, or do water changes every few days.

Rubble rock is cheap. Just throw a few pieces in your sump and pull one out when you want to QT.

You could also do this with sponge filters, bio-wheels from HOB filters, floss cartridges, etc...etc...etc. Any easily transferable medium that can host bacteria can be an effective culture for a quarantine tank.

The trick is, however, the system your bacteria culture is coming from MUST be free of pathogens - otherwise, you're just making a bad situation worse.

 

[wooden_reefer]

I've used a small piece of sacrificial live rock in all my QT tanks. Unless I want to vacuum up the stuff that collects on the bottom, I have never had a need to do a water change because of ammonia.

I fill the tank with new salt water, add a new air stone, new HOB filter material and one or two small pieces of live rock. No need to cycle, or do water changes every few days.

Rubble rock is cheap. Just throw a few pieces in your sump and pull one out when you want to QT.

Your fish may have suffered from ammonia.

Rock of any kind as the relied upon medium of filration is NOT a good idea in Qt.

Rubble is sort of the definition of non-rock.

The medium of filtration in QT is better compact and removable at your will.

It is better to have a filter medium that can be put into a "filter chamber" and removed from it.

Compact medium is easier to cycle separately in a separate container. It can be removed when a drug that harms nitrification bacteria has to be used, and later put back in.

A medium that is the most active in nitrification per unit volume is better; rock is not such. Rock is a generalist in nitrification and denitrification, you don't need denitrification in QT for fish.

 

[FTDelta]

+1 on the above response. Are you pouring the water the fish came in into the QT? Definitely don't add any chemical to DT to treat ich. let it die off on its own. Don't add any more fish until you figure out what's causing the deaths.

 

[Sk8r]

DON"T dose your tank for ich: you'll harm your microlife and screw up your tank. Withdraw and quarantine all fish for 8 weeks up to 12 if you want to be sure. The parasites in your tank will die off for want of fish (specifically fish: they don't infest anything else) and they'll be gone. One or more of your damsels may have it in the gills. While these fish are in quarantine, medicate that tank with cupramine, [do not use carbon in the filter!] or use hyposalinity, and either mark a fill line on the tank and NEVER let that water mark vary, or get an autotopoff specifically for that tank and keep that water bang-on that mark that way. Cupramine is a particularly treacherous med: if you let evaporation concentrate it at all, it can kill your fish; but it will get the ich. Hypo again MUST be managed with the water salinity bang-on for weeks. For more information go over to the Fish Diseases forum and start reading the stickies.

 

[Spyderturbo007]

Your fish may have suffered from ammonia.

I'm a little confused by this statement. Suffered from ammonia what? I keep an ammonia badge in there at all times that both my wife and I monitor. I also test for ammonia every few days. I assure you that it works and my fish have not been exposed to any ammonia in the QT process.

Rock of any kind as the relied upon medium of filration is NOT a good idea in Qt.

And here I thought all this time that we used live rock to supply and maintain the bacterial filtration for our tanks. :fun5:

Rubble is sort of the definition of non-rock.

It sure looks like rock to me. Can you describe the difference between rock, and non-rock when it comes to the difference between rubble rock and the larger pieces of the same thing. Rubble rock is just broken pieces of larger rock.

The medium of filtration in QT is better compact and removable at your will.

It's not difficult to stick your hand in the tank and pull out a piece of rock sitting on the bottom.

I already keep rubble rock in my sump, so instead of adding bio-balls or sponges that float around, I find it easier to just pull out a piece of what's already sitting there.