All of a sudden, no polyp extension?

[Reel North]

Nitrates and po4 are low too. I run my sps like a dirty pig lol.

I haven't really tested po4 for a long time, but I clean the glass maybe every 5-7 days! I have chaeto in my fuge that isn't actually doing very well right now ( no nutrients) but my sps is lit right up and I can literally see the growth daily.

I feed a TON. Equivalent of 4-5 cubes of mysis, a clip of nori, and 4 feelings of pellets.

If you have changed salt (why?) and your mag jumped, odds are there are some minerals or other inclusion in the other salt that is now missing and the corals don't like it.

I used to mess around with my tank a lot.

I went back to radiums with a reefbrite xho and everything took right off.

Stop adjusting and changing, and feed feed feed.

I don't even use carbon or gfo.

Take the carbon off. Difference might surprise you

 

[Potatohead]

You're not the first I've heard that thinks dirty is better. The ULNS movement that has been popular seems to be being challenged lately. I'm trying to stay somewhere in the middle.

My problem was/is definitely lighting. Thinking back there were some signs that I attributed to something else at the time, and was simply wrong. I also thought if it was too much light the corals would be turning white but with LED that doesn't seem to be the case. The tank also looks quite dim so it's really deceiving. I don't know if there's any way to brighten a tank without adding par, that may be a dumb question. About half my acros now have at least one burnt tip or small spot of stn . A few were throwing mesenterial filaments today also. I have a bit of brown algae on a few tips, should I just let them do their thing or should I cut the tips off? I don't want to stress them any more.

I tested my water again today and everything is basically the same, but alk went to 8.3 for the first time in forever I am assuming because nothing is growing anymore, so I took the kalk offline for now. I set the LED's about 15% lower now and reduced the T5's to two hours, and also raised them.

Right now kinda bummed and ticked at myself, but I'm not going to give up... I think most of them still have a fighting chance.

 

[andy67]

At this point I think I would wait it out for a couple of weeks and see if you see any changes.

 

[Potatohead]

At this point I think I would wait it out for a couple of weeks and see if you see any changes.

Ok, I'll leave them alone. Thanks

 

[Potatohead]

Well, here we are almost a couple weeks later... About half my SPS is slowly crashing, I can't figure out why. I reduced the lights even more but I'm starting to wonder if that was even the issue because things are not slowing down. I have four or five corals that seem to be doing fine , but the other day it was seven to eight and now a couple more are stn'ing from the base. I have checked for pests and don't see any, only thing I see at night are snails and pods, and I have four millepora which are apparently bad for pests, and all four are among the corals that are seemingly doing ok. I doubt it's related but I'm getting some brown turf algae growth on the back glass I never got before also. I have been feeding more in an attempt to help the corals heal, so I guess that's probably why.

I'm really at a loss and will probably end up removing a bunch of corals this weekend. My euphyllia, acans and zoas all still appear to be basically normal.

 

[bobssecrtsn]

I picture would help a lot , tell us exactly what you do as far as husbandry and salt brand. Picture of the coral that's not doing well.

 

[spkennyva]

1. How old is the tank?
2. How long were the acros in the tank before you started noticing issues?
3. What kind of flow is in the tank?

 

[Potatohead]

I picture would help a lot , tell us exactly what you do as far as husbandry and salt brand. Picture of the coral that's not doing well.

I don't know how much pics would help, it looks like normal stn. I tore all the bad stuff out this weekend, I am down to about 3/8 the SPS I used to have. I tried fragging one of my acros since it was only stn at the base, one of those two frags died overnight. Everything I removed I gave at least 10-14 days and no signs of slowing down. I do still have some SPS that are seemingly fine (even growing) and some that look like they're just hanging on.

I am using Aquaforest reef salt and have since my cycle was finished. I do all the normal stuff, 10% water change every 10-12 days, filter sock change every 3-5 days, skimmer cup emptied every 3-5 days, etc.

1. How old is the tank?
2. How long were the acros in the tank before you started noticing issues?
3. What kind of flow is in the tank?

Tank finished cycle 4.5 months ago

Some have been in the tank a good three months and are doing ok, some are in the tank two weeks and start to have issues... And vice versa

Flow is two MP10's, tank is a 36g with about 45g system. I use mostly reef crest with some nutrient transport and tidal swell mixed in for two hours each per day. They max out at 70%. My lights are two AI Primes and two T5 supplements (one blue plus, one coral plus)

I mean I can see having issues with acros if something goes off but I have even had problems with a birdsnest, monti cap and a digitata which is just bad. I also have an encrusting monti currently not looking so hot. I'll do full testing a bit later tonight.

 

[Grant W]

Tank is small and young my friend. Probably too soon for any really delicate sps. Take your time until it gets some age on it.

 

[Potatohead]

Tank is small and young my friend. Probably too soon for any really delicate sps. Take your time until it gets some age on it.

I have to admit I thought this was all a bunch of hooey, and that with good husbandry and good parameters it would be fine... Maybe there's something to it because everything I can measure seems fine. Just tested everything tonight;

Temp 78.0-78.5
Salinity 1.0255
Cal 420
Alk Salifert says 7.6, Hanna says 8.0-8.1, this is always rock stable because no growth (lol)
Mag 1400
Nitrate 6-8
Phos .033

I guess not much left to do other than wait it all out and see what happens. I'm discouraged but not ready to give up yet.

 

[Pife]

Put a poly pad in to see if it pulls anything out. Never know if you have something weird in the water

 

[nmotz]

I guess not much left to do other than wait it all out and see what happens. I'm discouraged but not ready to give up yet.

I wouldn't despair. My tank behaved similarly to yours until it began to mature. My ALK/Ca are usually stable, but SPS are really sensitive to all kinds of different stuff. Honestly, I don't think the anecdotal stuff most of us know is even half the story. It's just the best we can do.

Keep parameters stable, but try not to mess with it too much. Keep your hands out of the tank, just let it be. It's tough, but you might just need to give it time. If this hobby can teach you patience, it's been worthwhile. And we all feel your pain, don't worry!

 

[rovster]

I'll share what has happened in my own tank and that I've observed over the last few years of SPS keeping. Any time a change is made (light schedule, adding carbon dosing, anything....) sometimes SPS takes a few days to adjust. They stall out. If your cal/alk is not compensated and followed carefully during the few days after you can get a push in the upward direction of parameters. Usually it's not much but seems enough to cause issues. Birds nest and montis are first to suffer followed by acros. This starts a chain reaction that sends the tank into a slow downward tail spin. Mr. Reefer freaks out and starts to "do stuff" which further exacerbates the problem.

What to do then? Assuming you ruled out all the other stuff the answer is do nothing and watch your acros slowly decline. I know it's hard but at some point assuming this is what's going on they'll stop getting worse and then turn around. I've seen my tank comeback from what looked like an imminent graveyard to great again. The catch is this takes months but you have to let it happen. A month in if your parameters are good and you are second guessing yourself throw a new acro in there to see what happens. Sometimes the new ones do great because they don't carry baggage. While tank is recovering stop dosers and ca reactors until it's apparent tank is sucking it up again.

Hope this helps...

 

[Scorpius]

4.5 month old tank is wayyyyy to early for any sps unless you are a seasoned sps reefer. Sps I have learned like a mature stable tank. Wait one year before trying sps. Been there done that.

 

[Grant W]

Try a Digitata or something really tough for a while.

 

[MichaelW]

I feel a little differently about the tank needing to be like a year before keeping sps. I started my new tank with 100% dry rock and sand, a bottled bacteria product and I moved sps from my 90 into it within 2 weeks. Didn't loose a single one of those pieces from the move. If the water is stable and you keep it stable that is all that matters. Acros don't know how old your tank is it makes no difference to them. Now I am not saying it's as easy to keep the water stable in a new tank as an old tank, but if the water is stable than its no worry about how many months old it is

 

[spkennyva]

I concur with those that say its takes time. I started my current tank with dry rock and a few small pieces of live rock (no bacteria) and it took probably more than 9 months (closer to 1 year) before an acro would survive. My tank is now three years old and grows acros very well - I'm still working on color, but growth has come along. I suspect that the real masters can achieve success in much shorter time, but for us mere morals, patience is key.

 

[Potatohead]

Try a Digitata or something really tough for a while.

Already had one that went up in smoke. It was super bizarre too because I put it in the tank and it was growing like crazy, instantly. Two weeks later it stalled out and slowly died over the next two weeks.

I feel a little differently about the tank needing to be like a year before keeping sps. I started my new tank with 100% dry rock and sand, a bottled bacteria product and I moved sps from my 90 into it within 2 weeks. Didn't loose a single one of those pieces from the move. If the water is stable and you keep it stable that is all that matters. Acros don't know how old your tank is it makes no difference to them. Now I am not saying it's as easy to keep the water stable in a new tank as an old tank, but if the water is stable than its no worry about how many months old it is

I concur with those that say its takes time. I started my current tank with dry rock and a few small pieces of live rock (no bacteria) and it took probably more than 9 months (closer to 1 year) before an acro would survive. My tank is now three years old and grows acros very well - I'm still working on color, but growth has come along. I suspect that the real masters can achieve success in much shorter time, but for us mere morals, patience is key.

This is why it's confusing.

I know myself and I am pretty pedantic, probably too much so. I am not the type to let things go. I am totally honest saying I've never missed a water change, never left a sock in too long, etc. When things were going ok I checked my alk at least 5-6 times a week and it was always 7.9 - 8.1 on my Hanna. The only thing I ever dosed was some kalk in my topoff but only 1/4 saturation. I stopped it when this all started.

The only thing I am guilty of perhaps is ramping my lights too quickly, which felt like forever (lol), or maybe not acclimating long enough, and probably trying too many things at once after I started having issues. Keep in mind I do have three Euphyllia in this tank doing great, a few acans which are growing and three colonies of zoas that are ridiculous and getting 1-2 new heads each a day. I know they are easier to keep but I find it hard to believe I have a major water issue with these other corals seemingly thriving.

I did start my tank with dry rock and live sand. Two of my zoa colonies are on live rocks but they were not added until after cycling. I have had some green coralline for a couple months but the purple is very slowly coming just in the last week or so, just a few spots on the rocks and nothing on the glass yet. I don't know if that means anything or not.

In any event thank you for the opinions, this is a good thread and learning a lot.

 

[Rakie]

4.5 month old tank is wayyyyy to early for any sps unless you are a seasoned sps reefer. Sps I have learned like a mature stable tank. Wait one year before trying sps. Been there done that.

Sorry if this sounds argumentative, that's not what I'm trying to do

My tank had SPS in it literally weeks after my cycle, all were/are thriving. And I am far from a seasoned reefer -- Check my joined forum date -- that was the last time I kept a SW tank, and back then I was literally using lunch money.

To top it off, my tank is a 29g Biocube -- Things move QUICK in a small tank like this. And as a reefer with zero experience in SPS, in the most unstable circumstances, learning the whole way, in a brand new system. I had SPS growing and coloring up.. And I did everything wrong and still haven't learned all my lessons yet.

The understanding of reefs, husbandry, and water chemistry has evolved *so* much since I was a kid. 10 years ago what you are saying was sage advice -- Today it's a bit of an old wives tale. The technology and understanding is there, you just got to investigate. The only thing I have had die on me are Zoa's. I've had two beautiful mini colonies growing like crazy then suddenly they just shrank away. Of course they were the Gold Mauls and Blue Rhino's, not the BBEB/BamBams -_-

It took *me* about a year to learn what I was doing properly, but through all my mistakes the SPS kept encrusting, growing, and coloring up. Things that I did absolutely put temporary halts on growth, messed up colors, etc etc. But none of that was due to the tank lacking maturity.

 

[Grant W]

Then analyse what changed or you did differantly just prior to the decline.