Alleopathy?

[tufacody]

I have an RBTA in a 180 and a gigantea in a 70. Each tank is tied into a 100 gallon sump. Is there still a risk of chemical warfare when connected this way? So far I haven't noticed anything and each nem appears very healthy, but still curious.

 

[Toddrtrex]

I have never tried that combo, but you never know. Many years ago I had a Haddoni and BTAs in the same tank. At the time I didn't think anything was wrong. But, when I removed the BTAs, the Haddoni looked a lot better and stopped moving. Prior to that it wasn't moving all the time, but once every month or so.

Had a worse experience with a different Haddoni and an LTA. The LTA was already in my 58. I then moved the Haddoni into that tank (( had been in a different tank for about 9 months, and was doing great )). Shortly after that, both started to move all the time. Pulled the LTA, and put it in yet another tank -- both didn't move after that.

 

[clowns101]

i dont think that it is possible but not to for sure.

 

[dudley moray]

i don't know if your example has any bearing here toddrtrex that's an awfully small tank to have that combo of nems in as for the op almost 400 gal of system i think it should be ok as long as your running carbon but i think it only really matters if they can touch each other

 

[Toddrtrex]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15224797#post15224797 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dudley moray
i don't know if your example has any bearing here toddrtrex that's an awfully small tank to have that combo of nems in as for the op almost 400 gal of system i think it should be ok as long as your running carbon but i think it only really matters if they can touch each other

I clearly stated in my post that I don't have the same anemones as the OP, and my tank sizes are clearly listed. I was in no way trying to hide anything, just gave my experiences to him. Sorry that you think I shouldn't have replied.

 

[tufacody]

All thoughts welcome guys, thanks. I'm not sure of exactly how alleopathy with nem works. Is it a chemical that the nem is always extruding, or only when threatened? Perhaps we don't know?

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

allelopathy

allelopathy

IME it's physical warfare (shed nematocysts) not chemical warfare (allelopathy) that you should be most concerned about when mixing anemone species in the same aquarium. (Anemones don't need to physically touch one another to have an effect on one another.)
Allelopathy in corals is (generally speaking) similar to allelopathy in plants. I have yet to see any published scientific studies but it wouldn't surprise me if allelopathic compounds are present in anemones.

 

[tufacody]

As I said in my post, the nems are in different tanks combined by a common sump. The nems can't touch each other, so its no nemotocysts I'm worried about. I guess the real question is whether the BTA in the 180 even knows there is a gigantea in a different tank 10 feet away?

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

as I said in my previous post the anemones don't need to touch each other

Your anemones are sharing the same body of water (with a common sump, correct)? It doesn't matter if they're 10 inches away from each other or ten feet away from one another... nematocysts can be shed into the water column and this should be your main concern (IMO of course).

IME Stichodactyla gigantea and Entacmaea quadricolor aren't particularly fond of one another.

 

[Rod Buehler]

Re: Alleopathy?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15224301#post15224301 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tufacody
I have an RBTA in a 180 and a gigantea in a 70. Each tank is tied into a 100 gallon sump. Is there still a risk of chemical warfare when connected this way? So far I haven't noticed anything and each nem appears very healthy, but still curious.

I have similar set ups with no problems. I have a crispa, a gig, 2 mags, a hadoni, and a few BTA's all on the same sump. No issues here.

 

[Rod Buehler]

Oh.. lots of majano and aptasia too

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

Re: Re: Alleopathy?

Re: Re: Alleopathy?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15231328#post15231328 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rod Buehler
I have similar set ups with no problems. I have a crispa, a gig, 2 mags, a hadoni, and a few BTA's all on the same sump. No issues here.

Rod- do you run any mechanical filtration? Carbon? Heavy protein skimming? Regular partial water changes?

Anything that might reduce the possible number of shed nematocysts or chemical inhibitors?

 

[tufacody]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15228543#post15228543 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Gary Majchrzak
as I said in my previous post the anemones don't need to touch each other

Your anemones are sharing the same body of water (with a common sump, correct)? It doesn't matter if they're 10 inches away from each other or ten feet away from one another... nematocysts can be shed into the water column and this should be your main concern (IMO of course).

IME Stichodactyla gigantea and Entacmaea quadricolor aren't particularly fond of one another.

I didn't misread your post, I just didn't know nematocysts were fired absent physical contact. What has led you to conclude this? Are there studies? Has anyone isolated the chemical that is released in alleopathy? I'd like to know what that is as well. Thanks for the responses.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15231529#post15231529 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tufacody
I didn't misread your post, I just didn't know nematocysts were fired absent physical contact. What has led you to conclude this? Are there studies? Has anyone isolated the chemical that is released in alleopathy? I'd like to know what that is as well. Thanks for the responses.

yes- nematocysts can be shed without physical contact. There are studies. This is the method that anemones wage "long range" warfare. I have no studies readily available at the moment. I've seen what shed nematocysts can do to fishes in a closed system firsthand.
There is a good article in Reefkeeping Online Magazine regarding allelopathy. More good articles on the web if you search up allelopathy.