Alternative foods for Mandarins

I will have to try bloodworms and live black worms. Mike/Nicole, do you have an issue with blackworms being a dirty food?

None at all, in fact we probably over feed with them because everything in the tank loves them and i want to make sure some get down to the sandbed for the mandarins. Bloodworms on the other hand you have to be careful with as they have a ton of phosphates in them.
 
Mysis seems to work for mine. They are still young but growing well and spawn most nights. They are in a tank full of seahorses so the pod population is very low.
 
Mandarins have a very high metabolism and need to eat almost constantly. That is why you see them picking at the rocks almost constantly. A few pieces of Mysid shrimp a few times a day would be like you eating 4-5 chicken nuggets per day. It food, but not enough and you will not stay healthy long. If you have placed the same amount of rock and the refugium I would think you would be ok, but if you cut back on the rock and downsized its definitely border line. For this reason ORA breeding mandarins is not the saving grace everyone thinks they are. Yes ORA's will eat frozen foods, but frozen foods are not enough to sustain them alone.

Seahorses have an inefficent digestive system and almost no fat reserves. In the wild, they eat things like pods almost constantly. Yet they are kept healthy in captivity through eating frozen mysis shrimp, with females producing eggs and males "gestating" them (at a considerable caloric cost.) Considering the antomical deficencies that seahorses have going against them, I do not know why they would be able to survive, even thrive, on frozen foods while mandarins (that feed in the same manner yet can digest their food efficiently) are believed destined to die if fed the same diet.

I had my male mandarin for over 2 yrs in a 56 gallon w/out a 'fuge, during which time he ate frozen foods and fresh salmon and crab. He grew into a beautiful mature male. I added a female almost 6 months after getting the male, and the two of them were plump and had started doing mating dances. They would be with me today if I had not lost all the fish from that tank shortly after moving.

Seahorse owners tell people looking to get seahorses and pipefish that live rock teaming with pods is great -- but a seahorse or pipe will decimate that population in extremely short order. A 'fuge is a wonderful assest, but it isn't going to sustain your pet; you have got to train your fish to eat frozen food or be prepared to buy live foods for it. The conventional wisdom for mandarins is the exact opposite: the 'fuge should and can produce all the food the animal needs... Yet these are both animals that spend all day hunting and eating. The seahorse may not have the high energy needs of the mandarin, but it is difficult for the seahorse to derive any good from its food.

Can someone explain how these two ideas, which seem to be mutually exclusive, can somehow both be true? I know that the seahorses can thrive for years eating primarily frozen mysis (there are many examples of that), and I know my own mandarins broke the 2 year mark eating prepared foods (and there are other reports on RC of similar mandarins.)
 
I have to agree with Elysia. Refugiums are unreliable sources of food and I have yet to find a reasonably healthy mandarin that could not be trained to eat frozen foods given a little persistence. Mandarins that are already severely emaciated may be more difficult to train.

In my experience, mandarins do not need to be constantly fed. 1-2 feedings per day of mysis (or other quality prepared food) is sufficient for them to fatten up. It helps to turn off the pumps for at least a half an hour after feeding to give them time to eat. At each meal, I try to feed them to satiation. If competition from tankmates is an issue, then you can always try feeding from the "mandarin diner".

I have no idea where the hummingbird analogy came from and I have never seen any scientific basis for this assertion. In my experience, there is nothing particularly special about their metabolism that prevents them from eating on the same schedule as most of our other aquarium fish. In the wild, almost all reef fish are eating small quantities throughout the day, but that doesn't mean that they must eat on that schedule to do well in an aquarium.

Scott
 
Wow a lot of food for thought. Here's a question: How to do train them to eat frozen food? Like I said I've almost had this guy for two years and have yet to see him eat frozen food. He could do it behind the rock work I guess. So if just introducing the food isn't enough to get him to eat it, then what is the trick?
 
Try placing the mandarin in a breeder basket and begin by feeding live brine that is enriched with selcon or algamac. Next, phase in frozen bloodworms by feeding those before the live brine. Finally, phase in mysis by feeding those first. Then you can start phasing out the live brine and bloodworms. I didn't discover this method, but has never failed me. Most mandarins seem to really relish frozen bloodworms, so it works well as a transition food.

Scott
 
Try placing the mandarin in a breeder basket and begin by feeding live brine that is enriched with selcon or algamac. Next, phase in frozen bloodworms by feeding those before the live brine. Finally, phase in mysis by feeding those first. Then you can start phasing out the live brine and bloodworms. I didn't discover this method, but has never failed me. Most mandarins seem to really relish frozen bloodworms, so it works well as a transition food.

Scott

Never going to catch him, unfortunately.
 
Mine is extremely picky, but it eats frozen food voraciously...but only the following:

H2O life spirulina enriched mysis/brine mix - like a pig
H2O life reef fusion - like a pig
H2O life mini mysis - like a pig
Hatched live brine - this is a pain...but worked to train her on prepared foods

Rods Reef (but most pieces aren't the right size, so she doesn't eat enough)

Does not eat:
PE Mysis (too big I think)
Hikari Mysis
Ocean Nutrition - Formula One (doesn't like it - tried it once and won't touch it)
Pellets/flakes of any kind
Cyclopeeze (will take a few bites then ignore the rest)

I have no idea what it is about the H2O Life foods, but she LOVES them. Maybe it's because all the pieces are just the right size...maybe it's the flavor...I don't know. Figures, as they are the only brand that I can't buy locally, I have to order it online.

She only eats anything if I target feed onto the rocks for her to peck at. All flow turned off, and other fish distracted by thier own food. I have to constantly shoo my cleaner shrimp away while she eats.
 
You can buy trigger copepods from you LFS and dump them into your tank. He probably won't eat them all right away so they will multiply giving him a lot of food. That's what I've done for mine!

how successful was this i was thinking about doing the same thing just havnt gotten around to it as of yet
 
People have used handled jars to feed mandarins -- place the food in the jar, use the handle to lower it to the bottom, and the mandarin learns to swim into the jar to eat the food. The great thing about mandarins is that they will pick at things that are stationary, so the fact that the food is just lying there does not hinder them from eating. Seahorses usually need movement to ellicit a feeding response, and despite this they are often trained to use feeding dishes; they "snick" frozen food that lays motionless.

For my male mandarin, I would gently tap on an area of the glass and he would swim over so that I could hand feed him frozen mysis, fresh salmon, and fresh crab. He was an awesome fish; used all areas of my 56 gallon column.
 
I'm disappointed that no one has pointed to any scientific studies that mention the high metabolism of mandarins.
 
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