Ammonia and Nitrites

[mattyg18]

I've read and been told that if your tank processes ammonia and nitrites in 24 hours then its cycled. I'm only 16 days into a cycle, and when adding ammonia to 3ppm my tank is processing ammonia in 24 hours, however taking about 36 hours to process the nitrites.

Its a 60 gallon cube with 15 gal sump, 50lbs dry LR(cured for 3 weeks), 5 lbs LR, live bagged sand, and I used Biospira.

To me it seems that it cycled pretty quick but I wanted to see if that 24 hour timeframe is crucial. I'm in no rush but if the tank is ready for livestock then I would like to add a damsel or clown.

The nitrates are at around 40 now and I was thinking of doing a large water change but not sure if I should at this point.

Please let me know what you guys think.

Thanks

 

[thegrun]

The tank is cycled if it is processing the ammonia in 24 hours. Do not add any more ammonia, all it is doing is raising your nitrates; the end result of the cycle. I would make a large water change, at least 50% and 100% would be better to bring down those nitrates or you will end up with algae issues.

 

[mattyg18]

ok thanks a bunch. I'm going to fire up the RODI now.

 

[Jollyg97]

I'd be careful with the water changes actually. If you do giant stuff like that it can be a waste of rodi and salt and even mess up the cycle. I tried doing big water changes to fix ammonia and nitrate problems and it literally crashed my tank. I talked to the lfs owner near why I am (very reputable). He basically explained that I restated the cycle through my process of big water changes. You're literally trying to make a small ocean and there isn't a guy bailing out the ocean super frequently to try to lower things. These things happen naturally and will with proper filtration, you're a bit low on the actual live rock but eventually it'll seed the dry rock more and more. The guy at the lfs told me the less you do the less you screw up. I still have questions about cycles and it is confusing considering time and nutrients. I in fact have a recent question on here but a much different situation with cycling. Just give it a little more time before you do something so drastic as something like that.

 

[CStrickland]

A large water change toward the end of the cycle is common and practically harmless. Obvi you don't have anything in there yet like fish or coral that will be upset by minor swings in salinity, temp, ph, and alk. Those are concerns once the tank is stocked. A few degrees can be quite stressful for fish, for example. So I don't like to do more than 15% or so on a stocked rank unless there's an emergency, and then match params carefully.

The bacteria that handle ammonia and nitrates live primarily on the surfaces of the tank - rocks, sand, glass, pipes etc. You won't remove much of them with the water. The ones that handle nitrates live right underneath the others, and also sometimes in deeper rocks. They won't be removed either. But they come a little slower than the first batch (especially with biospira, it seems. I don't think it has as much nitrate-removers, if any). A big water change will give you a leg up on nitrates so they won't be accumulating while the low-oxygen bacteria colonies catch up to the others. Nitrites and nitrates won't hurt your fish, but nitrates are great algae fertilizer, and can bother inverts.

Of course the ocean has water changes, twice a day the tide goes out and in.

 

[Jollyg97]

All I know is that the large water changes are what destroyed my tank completely and made me recently restart completely. And yes the ocean has water changes but not 50 percent or more all at once. I think from experience and tons of conflicting opinions on this I'd say 10-15% max just to ensure that nothing terrible will happen. Water changes typically are not the permanent solution to things like these and can sometimes cause harm. He is still cycling with nothing alive in there so I'd say see where the parameters go for a little while longer as his tank is seemingly in the process of cycling. High nitrates are usually the last thing to be broken down if I can remember so he seems to be getting somewhere

 

[Happyschneider]

You are cycled. A big water change will not harm your bacteria in the life rock. They just don't care unless you would have huge swings in pH or maybe alk. Or bringing in something else but as you are using rodi you will be fine.

It's time to get the QT going

 

[CStrickland]

All I know is that the large water changes are what destroyed my tank completely and made me recently restart completely.

Not to get too off track but it sounds like your tank was stocked. There shouldn't be anything to destroy in a freshly cycled tank. It's two totally different things.
Sorry about your crash though better luck this time around.

 

[aznxgqb0yx]

I did a 90-95% water change after my ammonia was zero and my nitrite was in the purple range on the api kit, nitrate was a Lil orange, my tank is perfectly fine

 

[Jollyg97]

Well I'm glad it worked out for you guys, I'm just saying what COULD happen and what I was advised by from a 40+ year lfs owner. I'm not saying anyone is wrong because some stuff works for people one day and then another time it is not the same results. Whatever works is what's important.

 

[mattyg18]

I was planning on doing a 25% water change in the morning and bringing up the specific gravity to 1.025. I've been cycling at 1.019 which is what was recommended by the lfs.

Do you guys think its ok to add some livestock this weekend? I was thinking a damsel or two. What about a cuc? The only thing is that there isn't too much to clean up. I do have some brown stuff accumulating on a bunch of the rocks.

Let me know what you guys think.

Thanks again!

 

[CStrickland]

I wouldn't add a damsel as the first fish, they can be very territorial and kill anything else you add to "their" tank. It's really much better to figure out all the fish you want to eventually have in the tank, and then add them one at a time with a few weeks between, in order of least to most aggressive. Figuring out that fish list is also a great way to kill time while you wait a little while to confirm your all cycled and settled in.

This forum is a great place to get advice about which fish will be happy in your tank and not kill each other. Salt water tank fish are basically wild animals. It's a whole different ballgame from other pets, personality and tank size and diet all come into play. The experts here know all that stuff, and they aren't trying to sell you anything like an lfs

Once you figure out your fish list, it's kinda nuts not to quarantine them before they go in the tank. This "setting up" sticky has a link to info about quarantine and also lots of other good advice http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1031074

The brown is prolly diatoms. I'd wait for some green to come along. Reefcleaners.org has really good info about different CUC critters, some need meaty food and some eat algae.

 

[gone fishin]

I agree with Cstrickland, get your fish list together of what you would like. It is really easy to add fish but can be a royal PITA to remove them.

I second reef cleaners as well. I have been using them for years. Good luck

 

[mattyg18]

CStrickland- I had no idea about how aggressive the damsels could be but thanks for the info. I do have a QT tank ready to go. I just have to fill it with water. Would it make sense to use the water i'm removing from my DT? Or should I make fresh RODI?

I haven't even thought about making a fish list but thats a great idea. Do you have any recommendations for something not too aggressive to start with? I'm very new at this. I have reefcleaners bookmarked already.

Thanks

 

[gone fishin]

I would suggest browsing Live aquaria and put together a list of fish that you like.

I would suggest starting with fresh saltwater for your first QT since your tank is still new and a bit shaky chemistry wise.

 

[mattyg18]

Gone fishin - do you purchase fish from live aquaria? Looks like a good spot.

 

[Jollyg97]

If you've got a top I really recommend you get a jawfish of some sort eventually. They have so much personality and are so fun to watch IMO.

 

[mattyg18]

I have a canopy over my tank but there is an opening over the center part. Its an acrylic tank and the top comes in about 3" on the sides. i suppose a fish could jump out but it would be pretty difficult. Not sure how jawfish jump but they look like very cool fish. Thanks for the suggestion. So far i've got a clownfish and jawfish on my list.

 

[gone fishin]

Gone fishin - do you purchase fish from live aquaria? Looks like a good spot.

I have purchased from live aquaria and from Divers den, that is the Wisconsin facility, and have been happy with the orders. They use to be my go to place for online purchases. I will say in the last year I have seen more threads with problems than in the past, however their customer service is still top notch.

I am fortunate to have a decent LFS within driving distance. I would still order from LA/DD if my LFS could not get something in.

 

[Jollyg97]

The jawfish are extremely shy at first and will almost immediately begin digging a burrow and try to find sand and rubble to pretty much build its house in a sense which I absolutely adore. They will pop their head out of there for a while and eventually make it's way out very close to its burrow still. If anything startles it; it will DART back into its burrow and on occasion out of the tank. This is why you need that canopy, if it's mostly covered you should be fine. I'd recommend a pearly over a blue dot right now for pure sake of cost and early risk. They are also pretty hardy too!